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The Bible, is it irrefutable because its the word of God?

sandandfoam

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
If you think it's irrefutable you're missing out on a lot.

We're in a wonderland - why put on a strait-jacket?
 
Biblestudent_007

Biblestudent_007

Active Member
CarlinKnew said:
No. Give me some evidence that it's the word of your god.
Click to expand...


  1. Psalm 12:6
    And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times.
    Psalm 12:5-7 (in Context) Psalm 12 (Whole Chapter)

In general, the inspired scripture of the Bible. (I have the Evidence Bible)

In particular, some people think their reasoning is better or above what is found in scripture . .

I don't think that is true.
 
Caladan

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Biblestudent_007 said:
  1. Psalm 12:6
    And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times.
    Psalm 12:5-7 (in Context) Psalm 12 (Whole Chapter)
Click to expand...
So if I said that my words are flawless, would that be enough?
a passage testifying about its own infallibility is not proof, its more circular reasoning.

In particular, some people think their reasoning is better or above what is found in scripture . .

I don't think that is true.
Click to expand...
If you want to submit yourselves to the scribes of the scriptures, its your choice, I find the scriptures to be much more fascinating without blind faith, when we appreciate that they were written by people like us, who had their dilemmas and social interests.
No, to me, the scriptures are most impressive when we take God out of the equation and look into the experiences of the classes and scribes who produced the text.
 
Biblestudent_007

Biblestudent_007

Active Member
Caladan said:
So if I said that my words are flawless, would that be enough?
a passage testifying about its own infallibility is not proof, its more circular reasoning.
Click to expand...

Are you asking for scientific evidence?

If you want to submit yourselves to the scribes of the scriptures, its your choice, I find the scriptures to be much more fascinating without blind faith, when we appreciate that they were written by people like us, who had their dilemmas and social interests.
No, to me, the scriptures are most impressive when we take God out of the equation and look into the experiences of the classes and scribes who produced the text.
Click to expand...

I do know about a bible scholar forum.

. .
 
CarlinKnew

CarlinKnew

Well-Known Member
Biblestudent_007 said:
  1. Psalm 12:6
    And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times.
    Psalm 12:5-7 (in Context) Psalm 12 (Whole Chapter)

In general, the inspired scripture of the Bible. (I have the Evidence Bible)

In particular, some people think their reasoning is better or above what is found in scripture . .

I don't think that is true.
Click to expand...
I can do that too, see?

1. Carlinknew 6:9
My words are flawless, and I created the universe.

Is that really evidence?
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Biblestudent_007 said:
Caladan said:
So if I said that my words are flawless, would that be enough?
a passage testifying about its own infallibility is not proof, its more circular reasoning.
Click to expand...
Are you asking for scientific evidence?
Click to expand...
Here's an explanation of what Caladan is talking about. I lifted it whole from another source because it addresses the god issue here.

Circular Reasoning, Reasoning in a Circle, Petitio Principii.
Description of Begging the Question

Begging the Question is a fallacy in which the premises include the claim that the conclusion is true or (directly or indirectly) assume that the conclusion is true. This sort of "reasoning" typically has the following form.

  1. Premises in which the truth of the conclusion is claimed or the truth of the conclusion is assumed (either directly or indirectly).
  2. Claim C (the conclusion) is true.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because simply assuming that the conclusion is true (directly or indirectly) in the premises does not constitute evidence for that conclusion. Obviously, simply assuming a claim is true does not serve as evidence for that claim. This is especially clear in particularly blatant cases: "X is true. The evidence for this claim is that X is true."
Some cases of question begging are fairly blatant, while others can be extremely subtle.
Examples of Begging the Question


  1. Bill: "God must exist."
    Jill: "How do you know."
    Bill: "Because the Bible says so."
    Jill: "Why should I believe the Bible?"
    Bill: "Because the Bible was written by God."
source
​
 
Eliot Wild

Eliot Wild

Irreverent Agnostic Jerk
Biblestudent_007 said:
. . . some people think their reasoning is better or above what is found in scripture . .

I don't think that is true.
Click to expand...


Here is another quote from the Bible:

"When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money."
—Exodus 21:20-21 (RSV)
Click to expand...


Under the Bible's reasoning, a man should only be punished for physically assaulting his slave, whether it be male or female, if the slave eventually dies due to injuries sustained in the attack. If the slave lives, despite any injuries he or she may have suffered, there is no criminal or moral liability on the part of the slaveowner.

Does this sound like fair, superior reasoing?

Do you know why I think my reasoning is superior to that found in scripture? Because my reasoning tells me no man should own slaves to begin with, much less should he physically assault another person, slave or otherwise, even if the Bible seems to think it is acceptible to make property of people.

And I'll go you one even better . . . If the Bible was written by your God and it is His divine reasoning that it is okay to physically assault people just as long as the assaulter owns the assaultee, then I believe not only am I superior to your God in reasoning, but I pretty much think He is a cruel, sniveling little god who isn't worth man's pity much less our worship. But, that's just me.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Biblestudent_007 said:
  1. Psalm 12:6
    And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times.
    Psalm 12:5-7 (in Context) Psalm 12 (Whole Chapter)

In general, the inspired scripture of the Bible. (I have the Evidence Bible)

In particular, some people think their reasoning is better or above what is found in scripture . .

I don't think that is true.
Click to expand...

with this logic
are you going to use the bible to condone human trafficking, rape, slavery and sexism, since it is irrefutable?
:facepalm:
 
H

hyacinthus

Member
Dear Friend,

In my belief It's not the Truth of the content of your religious book that matters. what really matters is how the content of the book brightens and inspires your life in the face of adversity and suffering in this uncertain world.
 
N

nsantori

New Member
People who depend on the Bible as historical and ethical source are deceiving themselves. The books were written by male Jews trying to establish their influence on peoples' affairs. They reflect the thinking and prejudices of the times. They include stories and morality that was not subject to question and needed no proof. The majority of people could not read and there were no books available to them even if they could.
If a modern man or woman wants to assimilate themselves to that era, mentality and morality they can also believe in the easter bunny.
 
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