The Bible says Jesus is God

[blü 2]

I am my own Granpaw?

It seems funny I know but it really is so, though I forget just who had to marry who.

 

[Etritonakin]

Jesus, the Creator of ALL things
John 1:3+10
All things were made through him, and without him, nothing was made that has been made.
He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world didn’t recognize him.

Romans 11:36
For by him, and through him, and for him are all things. To him be the glory for ever! Amen.

Colossians 1:16-17
For by him all things were created in the heavens and on the earth, visible things and invisible things. All things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things are held together.


If Jesus is not God, did he create himself? Did God create himself?

The word who became Christ DID the actual creating -as willed by the Father.

Similar to a business owner running the office -and their son running the shop.

Christ does the will of the Father -which illustrates that they are not the same being/person, as it were. Christ even asked if there was some way he could do what was necessary without going through what he did -but said "thy will be done".

As for how Christ became the Father's son... The best I can make out from scripture is that the son was essentially his first self-replication.
Christ is also called "the firstborn of many brethren" in scripture -as God is also replicating himself in us.

It seems logical to me that the Father is literally the sum of all (I AM THAT AM) -and we are each literally a portion of him.

 

[Teritos]

Which Bible version did you use?

I ask because I have not a version that has the phrase "through myself" in that verse:

Isaiah 44:24
(AFV)
Thus says the LORD your Redeemer, and He Who formed you from the womb, "I am the LORD Who makes all things; Who stretches out the heavens alone; Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;

(ASV)
Thus saith Jehovah, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb: I am Jehovah, that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth (who is with me?);

(BBE)
The Lord, who has taken up your cause, and who gave you life in your mother's body, says, I am the Lord who makes all things; stretching out the heavens by myself, and giving the earth its limits; who was with me?

(Bishops)
Thus saith the Lorde thy redeemer, euen he that fassioned thee from thy mothers wombe: I the Lorde do all thinges my selfe alone, I only spreade out the heauens, and I only haue laide abrode the earth by my owne selfe.

(Darby)
Thus saith Jehovah, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb: I am Jehovah, the maker of all things; who alone stretched out the heavens, who did spread forth the earth by myself;

(DRB)
Thus saith the Lord thy redeemer, and thy maker, from the womb: I am the Lord, that make all things, that alone stretch out the heavens, that established the earth, and there is none with me.

(ERV)
The one who rescued you is the LORD, the one who formed you in your mother's womb. He says, "I, the LORD, made everything. I put the skies there myself. I spread out the earth before me."

(Geneva)
Thus sayeth the Lord thy redeemer and he that formed thee from the wombe, I am the Lord, that made all things, that spred out the heauens alone, and stretched out the earth by my selfe.

(GNB)
"I am the LORD, your savior; I am the one who created you. I am the LORD, the Creator of all things. I alone stretched out the heavens; when I made the earth, no one helped me.

(ISV)
"This is what the LORD says, your Redeemer and the one who formed you in the womb: "I am the LORD who has made everything, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth—Who was with me at that time?—,

(KJV)
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

(KJV-1611)
Thus saith the Lord thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the wombe; I am the Lord that maketh all things, that stretcheth forth the heauens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by my selfe:

(KJVA)
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

(KJV-BRG)
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

(LEB)
Thus says Yahweh, your redeemer, and he who formed you in the womb: "I am Yahweh, who made everything, who stretched out the heavens alone, who spread out the earth—who was with me?—

(LITV)
So says Jehovah, your Redeemer and your Former from the womb; I am Jehovah who makes all things; stretching out the heavens, I alone spreading out the heavens. Who was with Me,

(LSV)
Thus said YHWH, your Redeemer, || And your Framer from the womb: “I [am] YHWH, doing all things, || Stretching out the heavens by Myself, || Spreading out the earth—who [is] with Me?

(MKJV)
So says Jehovah, your Redeemer, and He who formed you from the womb, I am Jehovah who makes all things; who stretches out the heavens alone; who spreads out the earth; who was with Me?

(RV)
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb: I am the LORD, that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth; who is with me?

(TLV)
Thus says Adonai, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am Adonai, Maker of all things, stretching out the heavens alone, spreading the earth abroad by Myself,

(TS2009)
Thus said יהוה, your Redeemer, and He who formed you from the womb, “I am יהוה, doing all, stretching out the heavens all alone, spreading out the earth, with none beside Me,

(WEB)
Yahweh, your Redeemer, and he who formed you from the womb says: “I am Yahweh, who makes all things; who alone stretches out the heavens; who spreads out the earth by myself;

(WEBA)
Yahweh, your Redeemer, and he who formed you from the womb says: “I am Yahweh, who makes all things; who alone stretches out the heavens; who spreads out the earth by myself;

(Webster)
Thus saith the LORD thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself:

(YLT)
Thus said Jehovah, thy redeemer, And thy framer from the womb: 'I am Jehovah, doing all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, Spreading out the earth—who is with Me?​

"through" and "by" have same meaning.

I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself.

God created the earth alone, no "little god" was beside Him. He alone created everything through Himself, and everything exists through Him.

 

[oldbadger]

Jesus, the Creator of ALL things
John 1:3+10
All things were made through him, and without him, nothing was made that has been made.
He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world didn’t recognize him.

Romans 11:36
For by him, and through him, and for him are all things. To him be the glory for ever! Amen.

Colossians 1:16-17
For by him all things were created in the heavens and on the earth, visible things and invisible things. All things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things are held together.


If Jesus is not God, did he create himself? Did God create himself?

You quoted Paul and John, and I feel confident in saying that neither of these Apostles ever saw or met with him. I do not believe that Apostle John was Disciple John.

Jesus was a Galilean Jewish peasant who initially followed the Baptist and then tried to carry that mission forward after John's arrest.

No 'Jesus is God', or 'Jesus the Creator' or 'Jesus saved the Israelites' in my opinion.

But that's just my opinion. OK?

 

[firedragon]

Jesus, the Creator of ALL things
John 1:3+10
All things were made through him, and without him, nothing was made that has been made.
He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world didn’t recognize him.

Romans 11:36
For by him, and through him, and for him are all things. To him be the glory for ever! Amen.

Colossians 1:16-17
For by him all things were created in the heavens and on the earth, visible things and invisible things. All things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things are held together.


If Jesus is not God, did he create himself? Did God create himself?

The problem with the prologue of John is over and above the anonymity of the author of Johannine corpuses, the prologue was estimated to be a later addition by a second hand pen. And that's based on textual analysis. It is also called an anti marcionite prologue. As in it was added as a response to the Marcion heresy.

That and for many many reasons, I cannot take the word of that anonymous author.

Also, you directly misrepresented your own New Testament. The verses you quoted from it say "through him" not that "he was the creator of all things". So that statement is not biblical but a direct misrepresentation of the text.

Cheers.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus, the Creator of ALL things
John 1:3+10 All things were made through him, and without him, nothing was made that has been made.
He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world didn’t recognize him.
Romans 11:36 For by him, and through him, and for him are all things. To him be the glory for ever! Amen.
Colossians 1:16-17
For by him all things were created in the heavens and on the earth, visible things and invisible things. All things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things are held together.
If Jesus is not God, did he create himself? Did God create himself?

I notice Colossians 1:15 is Not mentioned ^ above ^.
At verse 15 Jesus is the first born of every creature. God is Not first born of any creature because God is Creator - Revelation 4:11
God had No beginning according to Psalms 90:2, therefore God was ' before ' anything.
Whereas, pre-human heavenly Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God according to Revelation 3:14 B.
So, Jesus was the agent that God used at John 1:3-4. - 1 Corinthians 8:6
This is why Jesus was "IN" the beginning ..... but Jesus was Not ' before' the beginning as his God was ' before ' the beginning.
John 1:10 connects to Genesis 1:26 because Jesus is part of the 'us ' mentioned there. ( 'us' means more than one person )
Who is the 'He' at Romans 8:29 B so that Jesus might be first born......'
Hebrews 1:6 'brings His First born into the world/earth.', so who is the He that brings forth __________
Who does the appointing at Hebrews 1:2___________but God who has appointed His Son...

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The word who became Christ DID the actual creating -as willed by the Father.
Similar to a business owner running the office -and their son running the shop.............................

I like your ^above^ illustration about the business owner....
Kind of makes me think that God (Creator) was in the business of creation.- Revelation 4:11
Often we might see a business sign saying, " Father and Son ".
So, God being the Father of Son Jesus decided to expand his creation business by taking in His Son.

 

[Teritos]

I notice Colossians 1:15 is Not mentioned ^ above ^.
At verse 15 Jesus is the first born of every creature. God is Not first born of any creature because God is Creator - Revelation 4:11
God had No beginning according to Psalms 90:2, therefore God was ' before ' anything.
Whereas, pre-human heavenly Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God according to Revelation 3:14 B.
So, Jesus was the agent that God used at John 1:3-4. - 1 Corinthians 8:6
This is why Jesus was "IN" the beginning ..... but Jesus was Not ' before' the beginning as his God was ' before ' the beginning.
John 1:10 connects to Genesis 1:26 because Jesus is part of the 'us ' mentioned there. ( 'us' means more than one person )
Who is the 'He' at Romans 8:29 B so that Jesus might be first born......'
Hebrews 1:6 'brings His First born into the world/earth.', so who is the He that brings forth __________
Who does the appointing at Hebrews 1:2___________but God who has appointed His Son...

Israel and Ephraim and in the NT Christians are called firstborn of God, and logically there cannot be more than one firstborn of God. Therefore, one should not always interpret "Firstborn" as referring to time. It can also be understood as a title of honor. Jesus has no beginning, for through him are all things, he was before all things, and all things exist through him.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Israel and Ephraim and in the NT Christians are called firstborn of God, and logically there cannot be more than one firstborn of God. Therefore, one should not always interpret "Firstborn" as referring to time. It can also be understood as a title of honor. Jesus has no beginning, for through him are all things, he was before all things, and all things exist through him.

Thank you for your reply. I hope you will look up the verses that I did Not quote.
I find Jesus was ' first born ' in the -> heavens.
To me, Israel and Ephraim was Not located in the heavens.
Colossians 1:15 places pre-human heavenly Jesus as first born in the -> heavens.
So, yes, there could only be one 'first born' in the heavens, thus pre-human Jesus being the beginning of the creation by God - Rev. 3:14 B
Yes, being ' first born' would definitely be a title of Honor, but a title does Not mean he was Not a creation.
Saying ' through him ' indicates another involved., thus per-human Jesus is part of the ' US ' found at Genesis 1:26.
Jesus was before any other creation both in heaven and on earth.
Please notice the word ' and ' at 1 Corinthians 8:6 because it mentions that for Christians there is one God (that is the Father) AND one Lord Jesus Christ.....
I find at KJV at Psalms 110 there are two (2) LORD/Lord's mentioned.
The one LORD in all Upper-Case letters stands for LORD God ( Tetragrammaton )
The other Lord ( in some lower-case letters) stands for Lord Jesus ( No Tetragrammaton applied )

 

[McBell]

"through" and "by" have same meaning.

I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself.

God created the earth alone, no "little god" was beside Him. He alone created everything through Himself, and everything exists through Him.

You did not answer the question.
Which Bible version is your quoted verse from?

 

[filthyrottendirty]

Yes you see God created himself and then used himself to create everything then impregnated his mom and went to earth and became human to die and bring himself back to life to go back to heaven as God. Makes perfect sense.

 

[filthyrottendirty]

Seriously, no Jesus and God are two separate beings. Christians are wrong. In any other context a son being his own father would be nonsense. The Bible repeatedly says "son of God" the Bible never says "God the son" that's something Christians came up with.

 

[McBell]

In any other context a son being his own father would be nonsense.

Why the special exception?

 

[filthyrottendirty]

Why the special exception?

Idk ask the Christians. To clarify, I don't believe in that.

 

[McBell]

Idk ask the Christians. To clarify, I don't believe in that.

Fair enough.

 

[firedragon]

The word who became Christ DID the actual creating -as willed by the Father.

Where does it say that?

 

[firedragon]

Seriously, no Jesus and God are two separate beings. Christians are wrong. In any other context a son being his own father would be nonsense. The Bible repeatedly says "son of God" the Bible never says "God the son" that's something Christians came up with.

The orthodox christian doctrine is that they are not the same person.

 

[Etritonakin]

"through" and "by" have same meaning.

I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself.

God created the earth alone, no "little god" was beside Him. He alone created everything through Himself, and everything exists through Him.

That is actually the Word speaking-which is literally why he is called the Word. He goes forth from the Father to do and to say.

He was also "I AM" ("before Abraham was, I am")

 

[Etritonakin]

Where does it say that?

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
.............
.............
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

 

[firedragon]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
.............
.............
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So again, where does it say "The word who became Christ DID the actual creating -as willed by the Father." like you said?