The Bible Tells Me So

[sojourner]

Is Jesus God?
Is God Unchanging?
Is the Holy Spirit God?
Is God a Trinity?
What must a person believe to be saved?
Is Baptism required for salvation?
Can salvation be lost?
What is the nature of communion/the Eucharist?
Should we still keep the Sabbath? How?
Can women be pastors?
Can gay people be pastors?
How should the church organization be structured?
Which church is the true church?
What will the End Times be like?
Has Jesus come back already?
Is divorce a sin? Always?
Is abortion a sin? Always?
Is war a sin? Always?

I'm not looking for anyone's particular answers to any of these particular questions. I list them because they are a sampling of the myriad theological questions on which Christians disagree who profess to derive their beliefs directly the Bible.

Now if the Christian God's intent was for us to strictly use the Bible to learn his teachings for us, why is it that on virtually every doctrinal question under the sun, Bible-believing Christians cannot agree?

The standard answer of the Bible-believing Christian is to say that everyone else who disagrees with them aren't really following what the Bible teaches, they just claim they are. But that's exactly what all the other Bible-believing Christians say!

So again, the question is, if the Bible's teachings are so clear, and we just need to read it and see what it says - why does following exactly that advice produce such disparate results?

A colleague of mine once said of a popular theological icon: “He’s ok, but he takes the whole Jesus thing way too seriously.”

Same thing.

 

[Pipiripi]

If I believe the Bible to teach one thing and man can reasonably show that what I believe the Bible is teaching is false then I ought to reconsider what I had believed.

For example, I used to believe that God created the earth out of nothing according to Genesis 1:1. But man has shown that the earth is much older than the idea of creation out of nothing as is supposed by Gen. 1:1

So, taking another look, I see that God never says that he created the earth out of nothing in Gen 1:1. Rather, I see that the earth actually already existed in Gen 1:1, just not in the form we know it today.

However, some people want to hold the idea that Gen 1:1 is speaking of the earth being created out of nothing and therefore they conclude that the days of creation are not literal days but very long periods of time. i disagree.

Then there are still others who hold that Gen 1:1 is telling us that God created the earth out of nothing and yet the days are literal 6 days. So, they have a problem with science.

Maybe the first word in the Bible is the best and the only way to begin with IN THE BEGINNING.

 

[LightofTruth]

Like the Pope, Mormons, Lutherans, Jews(mostly), etc. etc....

You know, all that huge "we" who accept the Bible as inspired by God.
Tom

So why is it that "we" don't believe what "He" has said?

Man dies and returns to the dust he was made from. It ain't rocket science. Why don't they(the we) believe it?

 

[columbus]

So why is it that "we" don't believe what "He" has said?

That's obvious.

Because God hasn't said anything. People claiming to be God's Official Spokesman isn't the same thing, even though 84% of the human race don't realize it. They believe in some religion or another.

Man dies and returns to the dust he was made from. It ain't rocket science. Why don't they(the we) believe it?

I believe something else.
I don't believe "we" just crumble to dust, only our meat does that. But I don't have anything resembling objective evidence, so I generally don't bother talking about it. I will, if someone asks. That doesn't happen very often, which is fine with me. My Faith is just my faith, no reason for anyone else to believe in it.

All I much care about is how people behave. Not what they believe about the Unknown and Unknowable.
Tom

 

[sojourner]

I don't know, it just seems like all this is trying to stratify a divine force that's supposed to be the master of truth, and therefore is allowed to make itself and the truth mutable. The opposing argument is: who are we to define god? We don't get discern what it is or what it can do. We aren't designed for that. We are just a bunch of dumb primates, aren't we? A couple weeks ago I lost one set of keys, but later found them by luck. I just spent the last few hours being anxious about stupid problems from yesterday. So this is a finite and limited state I find myself in, in the primate body, with the primate brain. And with this in mind, how am I expected to pinpoint the exact nuances of the trinity? Or know precisely what I should know or have faith in, in order to be 'saved,' whatever that means? It's like.. people don't even have their ducks in a row down here. Who are you going to trust then, to elaborate on all the divine platitudes

Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus.

When we allow that to happen, we realize that we are the very image of God.

 

[Cooky]

Adam's fate is important because his fate is the fate of us all. We are all dust just like him and we all return to dust just as he did. The nature that Adam had at his creation is the same nature we all share. And it's the same nature that Jesus shared before his nature was changed by resurrection from the dead. Jesus dies no more. His nature is therefore now immortal....by resurrection from the dead...and not by something inherent in man.

So where is Adam now? And everyone who died before Jesus was born?

 

[Trailblazer]

So where is Adam now? And everyone who died before Jesus was born?

According to my beliefs they are all in the spiritual world as that is where every soul goes after the physical body dies. If course that is a completely different belief than Christians have.

 

[Cooky]

According to my beliefs they are all in the spiritual world as that is where every soul goes after the physical body dies. If course that is a completely different belief than Christians have.

That's the same thing Catholics believe.

We believe that after the point of conception, every human soul lives for eternity, and that it's always been that way.

 

[Trailblazer]

Man dies and returns to the dust he was made from. It ain't rocket science. Why don't they(the we) believe it?

The physical body of man returns to dust but the spirit returns to God:

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Below is an apt description of what I believe happens when we die:

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

 

[Trailblazer]

That's the same thing Catholics believe.

We believe that after the point of conception, every human soul lives for eternity, and that it's always been that way.

Great. So how is that different from the Protestants?
I just posted what I believe happens when our physical body dies.

 

[Cooky]

Great. So how is that different from the Protestants?
I just posted what I believe happens when our physical body dies.

The Catholics believe exactly the same as what you said... It was perfect.

...With the Protestants, it varies and can be any number of things.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Catholics believe exactly the same as what you said... It was perfect.

Great.
I guess I was under a false impression because I thought that Catholics believe that their bodies will rise from the grave when Jesus returns, but after that, I am not sure what was supposed to happen.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe something else.
I don't believe "we" just crumble to dust, only our meat does that. But I don't have anything resembling objective evidence, so I generally don't bother talking about it. I will, if someone asks.

I also believe only our body crumbles to dust, but I do not believe our body is what "we" are, but rather that we are our soul.
So what do you believe "we" are and what do you believe happens to us?

 

[Cooky]

Great.
I guess I was under a false impression because I thought that Catholics believe that their bodies will rise from the grave when Jesus returns, but after that, I am not sure what was supposed to happen.

Some believe 1 Corinthians 15:52, and some don't.

Personally, I do.

 

[columbus]

So what do you believe "we" are and what do you believe happens to us?

The question is rather vague, but I'll say this.
What I prefer to believe is that we are little bits of material animated by a little spark of God. Our identity is the illusion that we're separate. When we die, our meat continues on in the vast cycle of transformation that is the material universe. Our "soul" merges back into the Ground of Being, God if you want to call it that. All that really disappears, though, is the illusion that we're separate beings.
Tom

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm not sure where the bible teaches us that we need to monitor others to ensure they're interpreting the scriptures correctly.

Sharing scriptures is one thing. Infighting over correct interpretations is another.

John wrote about different interpretations that were being spread about by so-called Christians in the first century, essentially condemning them. 1 John 2:26 - "These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you."
He wrote before that toward the beginning of the chapter,
"We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God a is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

 

[YoursTrue]

The question is rather vague, but I'll say this.
What I prefer to believe is that we are little bits of material animated by a little spark of God. Our identity is the illusion that we're separate. When we die, our meat continues on in the vast cycle of transformation that is the material universe. Our "soul" merges back into the Ground of Being, God if you want to call it that. All that really disappears, though, is the illusion that we're separate beings.
Tom

I was really happy when I learned (and more importantly, believed) what the Bible says about life and the future. Because before that I more or less thought as you do and I was not a happy individual thinking like that. Perhaps you are. I was not. To give an example, today I was passing some beautiful scenery, the leaves are turning here and the landscape is absolutely beautiful. Now that I know God, I thank Him for such scenery, knowing that He will resurrect me if I die. (Colossians 1:16 - For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.)

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus.

When we allow that to happen, we realize that we are the very image of God.

Given the current state of the world, doing too much of that doesn't seem like a good idea to me, in a way. The way out of the messes we make probably calls for more humility, in many instances. Men who think they are god often err. Maybe some can 'handle' it, but many can't

 

[YoursTrue]

Some believe 1 Corinthians 15:52, and some don't.

Personally, I do.

I see that in some obituaries there is a notice to "Rest in peace." Or -- eternal rest. As if the person will actually be 'resting' in peace and hopefully not be tortured in hell. Maybe eternally? Do you believe in hellfire? Because the Bible says about the future at Revelation chapter 21,
"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
2 I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying:
“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will dwell with them.
They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God.
4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.”
What are your thoughts about that?

 

[Trailblazer]

Some believe 1 Corinthians 15:52, and some don't.

Personally, I do.

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

I also believe in that verse, but I believe in a spiritual resurrection, not a physical one, so I believe it means the spiritually dead will be raised up from their graves of ignorance of God. So to me asleep in the grave or dead in the grave means spiritually dead.

Regarding I Corinthians 15, the following article explains what I believe better than I could ever explain it.

Won’t the Dead Rise Again?

I do believe that after we die we will be changed and get a new body, but I believe it will be a spiritual body, not a physical body, and it will be incorruptible because a spiritual body can never die. As the article above says:

"Here, Paul depicts resurrection as spiritual, not physical. He says plainly that the “body” resurrected is not the physical body that is “sown” and that a “natural body” is followed by a “spiritual body”. He makes it clear that this spiritual body is nothing like the physical one, and uses two metaphors to make this point: the difference between mature grain and bare seed, and the difference between a moon and a sun.

A moon, an inert rock that casts no radiance of its own, can only reflect what shines on it — an apt metaphor when applied to the human condition. A sun, made of a different substance altogether, sheds its own radiance. “So also is the resurrection of the dead,” Paul says. “It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.”