The big bad in the Vietnam War

[Kamen Rider Build]

Do you think that the US was the big bad in the Vietnam War? Without them interfering in Vietnam, millions of innocent people would not have dead, Vietnam would not have been ruined, billions of dollar would not have been wasted. And for what? After 40 years, the communist Vietnam is one of the US most trustful trade partners.

 

[Axe Elf]

I'm not a big historian, but I think with the benefit of hindsight, there is the prevailing opinion that the U.S. may have stuck its nose in where it didn't belong.

Or maybe it's just my hippie sensibilities showing.

 

[Father Heathen]

The U.S.'s intentions weren't entirely pure nor it's hands clean, but it wasn't strapping grenades to children, either.

 

[Sapiens]

The U.S.'s intentions weren't entirely pure nor it's hands clean, but it wasn't strapping grenades to children, either.

Tell that to the villagers of Mai Lai and other unknown villages that suffered the same fate.

 

[Father Heathen]

Tell that to the villagers of Mai Lai and other unknown villages that suffered the same fate.

Hence my statement "The U.S.'s intentions weren't entirely pure nor it's hands clean". My point was that there were no clear "good guys".

 

[Sapiens]

Just John Paul Vann.

 

[Stevicus]

Do you think that the US was the big bad in the Vietnam War? Without them interfering in Vietnam, millions of innocent people would not have dead, Vietnam would not have been ruined, billions of dollar would not have been wasted. And for what? After 40 years, the communist Vietnam is one of the US most trustful trade partners.

I think it was the French who got there first. We didn't really interfere with the territory as long as they were in control of it.

World War II was apparently the game-changer in all of that, as our interference in Vietnam began by aiding resistance against Japanese aggression. France was our ally, but the French and other colonial powers were too spent and exhausted from the war to be able to keep control of their empires.

This left a power vacuum in the world, with large parts of the globe resentful over what had been done to their countries and people. But by the same token, the US felt it had the obligation to contain what it perceived as Soviet aggression in various parts of the world which seemed susceptible to communist agitation. There was also the rather dubious "domino theory" that if we didn't stand up to the communists in Vietnam, the rest of Southeast Asia would turn communist.

It was all part of the overall policy of containment while trying to avoid direct all-out warfare with the Soviet Union. Anywhere in the world where there might be communists, we took it on as our own personal crusade to fight against them in any way we can, covertly or overtly, whether directly or by proxy. We saw ourselves as white knights fighting the evil empire (we still do). In some countries, it was relatively easy - simply a matter of bribing the right generals and a few key politicians. In other places, it wasn't so easy.

From a certain standpoint, Vietnam was just one part of the overall Cold War, which ultimately ended when communism fell in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union was dissolved. The Sino-Soviet split was also something that the US was able to gain from, as our relationship with Communist China improved. Towards the end of the Cold War, the Russians were more worried about the Chinese than they were of us.

I don't know if the US was necessarily the "big bad" in Vietnam or other areas of the world. We've certainly thrown our weight around, although I think a lot of Americans see us as being the "big good."

As for relations with Vietnam today, I haven't followed things that closely, but it seems to be working for now. The world situation has changed. I don't think they're seen as any kind of regional threat, not like North Korea.

 

[Augustus]

Given that Ho Chi Minh was a Comintern agent, I don't think either side could have been considered the good guys.

 

[Kamen Rider Build]

Given that Ho Chi Minh was a Comintern agent, I don't think either side could have been considered the good guys.

And? What was inherently bad about it?

 

[Shaul]

I think President Johnson deserves much of the blame for the America’s Vietnam debacle, President Nixon for forging a honorable exit, and the Democrats in Congress for causing the fall of South Vietnam by reneging on a promise to supply South Vietnam with support it needed. Just my opinion.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Do you think that the US was the big bad in the Vietnam War? Without them interfering in Vietnam, millions of innocent people would not have dead, Vietnam would not have been ruined, billions of dollar would not have been wasted. And for what? After 40 years, the communist Vietnam is one of the US most trustful trade partners.

You can blame Lyndon Johnson for that, among other things, him being the most evil president in our history, making Obama look like a piker. Kennedy had initiated our withdrawal from Vietnam to start shortly after election. Douglas MacArthur had told JFK that any US presence on the Asian mainland would be folly--words to that effect. But LBJ nixed his withdrawal plans within days of JFK's assassination, along with stiffing the two congressional committees looking into his corruption--Billy Sol Estes and the like.

 

[Augustus]

And? What was inherently bad about it?

What was inherently bad about the Soviet Union? Aside from the 30+ million murdered and deliberately starved? Aside from the gulags and ethnic cleansing? Aside from the oppression and totalitarianism? Aside from the KGB and neighbour spying on neighbour, coworker on coworker, child on parent? Aside from the ecocide of large parts of the country?

 

[Kamen Rider Build]

What was inherently bad about the Soviet Union? Aside from the 30+ million murdered and deliberately starved? Aside from the gulags and ethnic cleansing? Aside from the oppression and totalitarianism? Aside from the KGB and neighbour spying on neighbour, coworker on coworker, child on parent? Aside from the ecocide of large parts of the country?

You say as if the opponent of that, the capitalist colonialism, who conquered, colonized, enslaved people of thirdworld countries were any way better.

 

[Augustus]

You say as if the opponent of that, the capitalist colonialism, who conquered, colonized, enslaved people of thirdworld countries were any way better.

Given that Ho Chi Minh was a Comintern agent, I don't think either side could have been considered the good guys.

 

[Kamen Rider Build]

Is that really hard to understand? In an era where half of the humanity were still enslaved, being "a Comintern agent" was like being a Messiah, a world savior.

 

[Augustus]

Is that really hard to understand? In an era where half of the humanity were still enslaved, being "a Comintern agent" was like being a Messiah, a world savior.

By "world saviour" you mean puppet of a brutally oppressive totalitarian dictatorship that wanted to enslave the other half too?

 

[Kamen Rider Build]

By "world saviour" you mean puppet of a brutally oppressive totalitarian dictatorship that wanted to enslave the other half too?

From the way Vietnam has behaved, peacefully coexisting and friendly cooperating with all countries, even with the US, your claim was proven nonsense.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Do you think that the US was the big bad in the Vietnam War? Without them interfering in Vietnam, millions of innocent people would not have dead, Vietnam would not have been ruined, billions of dollar would not have been wasted. And for what? After 40 years, the communist Vietnam is one of the US most trustful trade partners.

I think the US hasn't fought a just war since WWII. My opinion. They were all avoidable and arguably business ventures.

 

[Augustus]

From the way Vietnam has behaved, peacefully coexisting and friendly cooperating with all countries, even with the US, your claim was proven nonsense.

Shame they didn't peacefully, and friendlily cooperate with their own citizens to the extend that millions of them fled due to oppression, ethnic cleansing, etc.

Do you think it's ok as long as you only oppress your own people?

They also invaded Cambodia, although this ultimately rid them of the Khmer Rouge. It wasn't a humanitarian intervention though.

 

[Kamen Rider Build]

Ba Chúc massacre - Wikipedia

Shame they didn't peacefully, and friendlily cooperate with their own citizens to the extend that millions of them fled due to oppression, ethnic cleansing, etc.

Do you think it's ok as long as you only oppress your own people?

They also invaded Cambodia, although this ultimately rid them of the Khmer Rouge. It wasn't a humanitarian intervention though.

So their "inherent badness" goes from "want to enslave half of the wolrd" to "oppress their own people"? How many people flee to the US from Mexico every year? How many people flee to Europe from Africa every year? Are they any different than any other thirdworld country? No.

Obviously their invasion wasn't a humanitarian intervention. It was a righteous counterattack after Cambodia has declared war and attacked them. Ba Chúc massacre