The Big Bang and Evolution

[omega2xx]

That is because it is proven. The only thing about evolution that isn't proven beyond all doubt? Is some of the finer details of the mechanisms involved.

Thenwhy can' tyou provide the evidence for just one thing in the TOE that has been proved?

DNA proves evolution happened. Fossil record proves evolution happened. Cladistic similarities prove evolution happened. Hybrid Vigor, among closely related sub-species proves evolution happened.

DNA disproves evolution. So does the fossil record. It is just plain silly to say the other things you mention prove evolution. It seems you accept everything others say, and don't require any evidence---Your faith is remarkable.

And so on-- hundreds of thousands of people for over 100 years, have worked to DISPROVE evolution-- that is what actual science does-- yes, yes--- I know you are 100% unfamiliar with actual science. Not my problem; your ignorance is not proof, here.

But in all that scientific activity to disprove evolution? Has only served to prove it all the more.

For evolution to be false? Would require a level of Conspiracy, involving millions of people, over more than one hundred years-- and NOT ONE PERSON CHANGE HIS OR HER MIND TO REVEAL THE CONSPIRACY.

That simply does not happen--- humans are not that perfect.

Once upon a time....and they lived happily ever after.

 

[omega2xx]

Suppose a god sat down and personally designed and created all organisms. Exactly which organisms did he design and create over a period of four billion years? Is there a list?

There is no list. Just general classifications. It is all in the first chapter of Genesis.

 

[omega2xx]

For those interested in speciation: Evolution: Watching Speciation Occur | Observations

I am not denying speciation occurs. I am saying it does not change the species. Therefore no evolution.

 

[omega2xx]

Transitional fossils in Wikipedia. Just go there and search for intermediate. List of transitional fossils - Wikipedia
Another list: List of transitional forms - RationalWiki

Their DNA will sow the are not transitional. They are separate and distinct

Comments from 3 well known evolutionists:

The known fossil record fails to document a single example of phyletic evolution accomplishing a major morphologic transition---Stephen M.Steanly

I regard the failure to find a clear vector of progress in life's history as the most puzzling fact in the fossil record...we have sought to impose a pattern that we hoped to find on a world that does not really display it---Stephen J. Gould.

Wherever we look ate the living biota...discontinuities are overwhelmingly frequent...the discontinuities are even more striking in the fossil record. New species usually appear in the fossil reord suddenly, not connected with their ancestors by a series of intermediates.

 

[omega2xx]

No, it doesn't. It leads to two independent species, both of which are fertile.

You can't start with salamanders and end up with salamanders and say that proves evolution.

 

[ArtieE]

I am not denying speciation occurs. I am saying it does not change the species. Therefore no evolution.

The definition of speciation is: "The formation of new and distinct species in the course of evolution." speciation - definition of speciation in English | Oxford Dictionaries Either you deny speciation or you deny evolution. Which is it?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I'm sure you include the several hundred PhDs on this list: Homepage - Dissent From Darwin

Notice they don't care what we think either

But science not only doesn't care what we say, it doesn't care what scientists say either, unless it's to go out of it's way to contradict them as it so often does!

Do any of those dissenters give us their arguments against evolution, or what they propose to replace the theory with?

 

[ArtieE]

You can't start with salamanders and end up with salamanders and say that proves evolution.

In post number 572 you wrote and I quote: "There hasn't been a new species since time began." and here is an article saying we are watching speciation occur and is constantly occurring. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/evolution-watching-speciation-occur-observations/
Are you right or are they right?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

NOPE. I like this place the way it is, but also, i know they wouldn't stand much of a chance here as this is heavily moderated as compared to Topix. Most trolls probably tend to avoid real moderated sites, but none from Topix will ever be invited and i will also remain on Topix as that will tend to hide the fact we are somewhere else. SPE came in with a post this morning, but i've yet to see another, so don't yet know what's happened there.

It seems like there's been a massive purge of posters there. I don't know why I got booted. No warning, no explanation, and no notification - just shadow banning of all 85,000+ posts I left in nearly a decade.

The good news is that I can still read them, and know where to find them, so I don't need to reinvent the wheel every time I want to post something similar to what I have posted there in the past.

As I indicated, the culture is much more friendly and intellectual here. If that's due to the moderators, Bravo!

 

[ArtieE]

In post number 572 omega2xx wrote and I quote: "There hasn't been a new species since time began."

"A small handful of European mice deposited on the island of Madeira some 600 years ago have now evolved into at least six different species. The island is very rocky and the mice became isolated into different niches. The original species had 40 chromosomes, but the new populations have anywhere between 22-30 chromosomes. They haven't lost DNA, but rather, some chromosomes have fused together over time and so the mice can now only breed with others with the same number of chromosomes, making each group a separate species."

"A remarkable example is the London Underground mosquito. It is believed to have evolved from an above-ground species which moved into tunnels being excavated to construct the London underground rail system in the 1850s. Today the underground mosquito's aggressive bite gives commuters hell, while the above-ground species only feeds off birds. The two species can no longer interbreed and have become separate in just 150 years."

Are new species still evolving? › Ask an Expert (ABC Science)

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Science absolutely can disagree with scientists, in that individual scientists can make claims not represented by the methodology or results of their study.

Agree. I was unclear. I was thinking about the scientific community rather than individual scientists when I wrote, "Do you see science as something that can disagree with scientists?"

And it is absolutely necessary to disavow the idea that science can only come from scientists and scientific organizations, because science is a methodology for gaining knowledge available to all.

Once again, perhaps I was unclear. If you can do good science in your garage, even without a diploma, certificate, or a professional position in science, you are a scientist. I'm thinking of Faraday now.

I'll try to be more careful with my language.[/QUOTE]

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

sure they can. It is the principle of presenting irrefutable scientific evidence. I was indoctrinated in the TOE in high school and in college and I rejected it long before I became a Christian. What you consider compelling, does not make it compelling. Feel free to present any argument you consider compelling and we can discuss it.

With all due respect, I've read quite a few of your posts, and I'm pretty sure that I already know roughly how that will work out.

Furthermore, all I have to offer is what is already available to you elsewhere, and you reject it. I have no original arguments for evolution.

You and I don't just have different beliefs. We have radically different ways of processing information. I'm pretty certain that the theory of evolution is correct, and that there is no way to show you that.

Did you see the link to Morton's Demon: The Talk.Origins Archive Post of the Month: February 2002

Any thoughts on that?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

In my experiece which is probably much greater than yours, I have found anti-creation people to have been indoctrinated and don't even know it.

Can you explain what you mean by indoctrination, and explain how it applies more to a liberal, secular education than a religious one?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

It's really weird and i don't think it was anything you said. Everyone from out of the US disappeared overnight.

Good to know. I searched and searched for an explanation.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I was educated in the public school system of high school and college. They only teach evolution and the ALL teach it as proven.

Not my experience. I never had a class on evolution ever. Everything I know about it is self-taught.

But I was taught that scientific theories can never be proven, just falsified.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Virus population are not static. They breed like animals do. It is like breeding a bull dog and a collie. the kids are not either one, but they are still dogs.

Viruses don't breed.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Speciation does not change the species.

As has been stated numerous times, you should probably expend at least a little bit of time actually studying the topic which you are attempting to debate.

Speciation - Wikipedia

spe·ci·a·tion
ˌspēSHēˈāSHən,ˌspēsēˈāSHən/
noun
BIOLOGY

1. the formation of new and distinct species in the course of evolution.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Thenwhy can' tyou provide the evidence for just one thing in the TOE that has been proved?

I did. I'm so very sorry it is beyond your abilities to follow an internet link, and read... but here it is again, for the on-lookers


Lines of evidence: The science of evolution
http://io9.gizmodo.com/8-scientific-discoveries-that-prove-evolution-is-real-1729902558
Human Evolution Evidence | The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program
15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense

 

[jonathan180iq]

I did. I'm so very sorry it is beyond your abilities to follow an internet link, and read... but here it is again, for the on-lookers


Lines of evidence: The science of evolution
http://io9.gizmodo.com/8-scientific-discoveries-that-prove-evolution-is-real-1729902558
Human Evolution Evidence | The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program
15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense

That last link is wonderful.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Viruses don't breed.

Hi, Doc!

I have come to discover omega2xx is just a troll-- his/her principle "defense" is one of "IsNotIsNotIsNot" followed by "La-la-la-la-la"... never a substantive argument in support.

Reminds me a little of Buck...