The Big Bang, Evolution, Creation, Life etc.

[YmirGF]

Honestly, if you know what a gluon is you know more about the subject than the average layperson.

I first became acquainted with the term when the search for the illusive "vector boson" made the news... way back when (in the 1980's, I think)...

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

[youtube]3wbt3tEc1pw[/youtube]

This is really worth a watch all 44.04 minutes of it. It discusses parallel universes and the multiverse in great detail. I do find this to be completely consistent to my own beliefs and theories about the universe as to how we got here just out of natural happenstance rather than divine intervention or plan. It could also mean that Christopher Hitchens would still be alive and a parallel universe. A universe where he did not die from pneumonia or even get cancer and totally oblivious to realities where he does not exist such as this one. We cannot observe our own deaths only the deaths of other people in our universe where the reverse would be happening in their universe. Someone would be observing my death.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

The universe is expanding; the Big Bang is what happens when you plot that expansion backwards billions of years.

Agreed, all evidence thus far points to that within the detectable matter and energy within the extent of our universe that we can measrue.

There isn't anywhere else for anything else to be.

There is nothing to support this position. Yes, I am familiar with the premise that there was no space at the time of the big bang - there is nothing to support this position.

 

[Photonic]

Agreed, all evidence thus far points to that within the detectable matter and energy within the extent of our universe that we can measrue.

There is nothing to support this position. Yes, I am familiar with the premise that there was no space at the time of the big bang - there is nothing to support this position.

Inertial frame of reference.

I guess Mach's Principle as well.. Depends, how deep do you want this discussion to go?

 

[shawn001]

Agreed, all evidence thus far points to that within the detectable matter and energy within the extent of our universe that we can measrue.

There is nothing to support this position. Yes, I am familiar with the premise that there was no space at the time of the big bang - there is nothing to support this position.

The Fabric of the Cosmos: What Is Space?

Surprising clues indicate that space is very much something and not nothing.

[youtube]wy9gXKwRpXc[/youtube]
The Fabric of the Cosmos: What Is Space? - YouTube

 

[Gharib]

My points of discussion so far.

Firstly i would say that as a creationist, i accept the theory put forward by science as to how our universe came to exist, ie. a big bang occured.
So far in the human quest to understanding the universe there are two proposed theories concerning what was before the big bang if there was anything at all that is. The first theory is that there was some kind of a smoke cloud which is one possibility because new stars are created from a similar scenario, where this smoke is called a nebula. The other theory is that the bang just happened, there was nothing before it. These two theories however, do not concern me, what concerns me is the actual explosion and whether time and space existed before this explosion.

I know that many scientists say that time and space didn’t exist but i have some questions regarding this viewpoint, so this is where i have to stop and elaborate. So far my two main points of discussion are, the explosion itself, was it from god or was it random, and was there time and space before that explosion.

Lets outline the bing bang theory.
An explosion took place, this explosion as believed by the non-religious, was random, a product of chance. To me as a creationist, this sounds rather contradictory to the laws of physics, it is illogical and mountains of evidence suggests that it is impossible for an explosion to take place randomly and the result of that explosion being something so complex as the universe and all that is in it. Speaking about the laws of nature (laws of physics), Stephen Hawking a well known scientific figure states the following: “….the laws of nature are fixed…..”. this very statement goes a very long way back, pretty much back to the big bang. As the name suggests, it is impossible for something so complex as the universe to have come about by a random explosion without the intervention of something intelligent. Unless ofcourse scientists believe that prior to the big bang, there were different governing laws that existed then, unlike the laws that we have after the big bang, such as those of quantom physics, and normal laws of physics.

An undeniable fact and i challenge anyone who dissagrees to prove me wrong, is that the laws of physics have and will always be the same from the fraction of a second that the big bang explosion started, up untill the end of this universe. Keeping that in mind, when has humanity ever seen or heard of something intelligent coming to be as a result of an uncontrolled explosion except for the big bang? When we hear the word explosion our minds immediately think of something chaotic that never leaves a pleasent trace, especially if we hear the word ‘uncontrolled explosion’. However, a controlled explosion, in which an intelligent designer has worked on, looks more like this: (i don’t know if the image will show, but it’s a photo of a fireworks explosion, for those of you who want to argue how fireworks compare to the universe, please don’t. It’s only an example of what i mean)

http://www.whoguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/fireworks.jpg

As far as i know, the only time a beautiful and pleasant outcome of an explosion is derived from fireworks, an explosion on which a designer has worked on. if we gather the materials needed to make such a beautiful explosion and we just stuff them into a tube randomly or with oue eyes closed, we ain't going to get a good fireworks display. it will be just a chaotic explosion.

So for those who deny that God created the universe and that we are part of the creation of God rather than of chance, please explain how what i have said is incorrect.

I will continue to work on the other point of wether time and space existed before the big bang.
I can’t fit all that in one post anyway.

 

[Iti oj]

Right now, that it at best a hypothesis.

Still, we have something in common since I also don't believe we came to be by chance. The whole idea of random chance implies that something else could have happened, and I don't believe that to be the case.

we are the direct results of our universe....

 

[Zoe Doidge]

We are a part of it even, made up of the same 'stuff' as the rest of the universe. Point is, the laws of physics made us not only possible, but inevitable.

 

[Photonic]

My points of discussion so far.

Firstly i would say that as a creationist, i accept the theory put forward by science as to how our universe came to exist, ie. a big bang occured.
So far in the human quest to understanding the universe there are two proposed theories concerning what was before the big bang if there was anything at all that is. The first theory is that there was some kind of a smoke cloud which is one possibility because new stars are created from a similar scenario, where this smoke is called a nebula. The other theory is that the bang just happened, there was nothing before it. These two theories however, do not concern me, what concerns me is the actual explosion and whether time and space existed before this explosion.

I know that many scientists say that time and space didn’t exist but i have some questions regarding this viewpoint, so this is where i have to stop and elaborate. So far my two main points of discussion are, the explosion itself, was it from god or was it random, and was there time and space before that explosion.

Lets outline the bing bang theory.
An explosion took place, this explosion as believed by the non-religious, was random, a product of chance. To me as a creationist, this sounds rather contradictory to the laws of physics, it is illogical and mountains of evidence suggests that it is impossible for an explosion to take place randomly and the result of that explosion being something so complex as the universe and all that is in it. Speaking about the laws of nature (laws of physics), Stephen Hawking a well known scientific figure states the following: “….the laws of nature are fixed…..”. this very statement goes a very long way back, pretty much back to the big bang. As the name suggests, it is impossible for something so complex as the universe to have come about by a random explosion without the intervention of something intelligent. Unless ofcourse scientists believe that prior to the big bang, there were different governing laws that existed then, unlike the laws that we have after the big bang, such as those of quantom physics, and normal laws of physics.

An undeniable fact and i challenge anyone who dissagrees to prove me wrong, is that the laws of physics have and will always be the same from the fraction of a second that the big bang explosion started, up untill the end of this universe. Keeping that in mind, when has humanity ever seen or heard of something intelligent coming to be as a result of an uncontrolled explosion except for the big bang? When we hear the word explosion our minds immediately think of something chaotic that never leaves a pleasent trace, especially if we hear the word ‘uncontrolled explosion’. However, a controlled explosion, in which an intelligent designer has worked on, looks more like this: (i don’t know if the image will show, but it’s a photo of a fireworks explosion, for those of you who want to argue how fireworks compare to the universe, please don’t. It’s only an example of what i mean)

http://www.whoguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/fireworks.jpg

As far as i know, the only time a beautiful and pleasant outcome of an explosion is derived from fireworks, an explosion on which a designer has worked on. if we gather the materials needed to make such a beautiful explosion and we just stuff them into a tube randomly or with oue eyes closed, we ain't going to get a good fireworks display. it will be just a chaotic explosion.

So for those who deny that God created the universe and that we are part of the creation of God rather than of chance, please explain how what i have said is incorrect.

I will continue to work on the other point of wether time and space existed before the big bang.
I can’t fit all that in one post anyway.

Ignoring all the other stuff that is blatantly incorrect here I simply want to ask.

Even if all that you said was true, and granting that God existed....

Who or what created God?

 

[outhouse]

My points of discussion so far.

Firstly i would say that as a creationist, i accept the theory put forward by science as to how our universe came to exist, ie. a big bang occured.
So far in the human quest to understanding the universe there are two proposed theories concerning what was before the big bang if there was anything at all that is. The first theory is that there was some kind of a smoke cloud which is one possibility because new stars are created from a similar scenario, where this smoke is called a nebula. The other theory is that the bang just happened, there was nothing before it. These two theories however, do not concern me, what concerns me is the actual explosion and whether time and space existed before this explosion.

I know that many scientists say that time and space didn’t exist but i have some questions regarding this viewpoint, so this is where i have to stop and elaborate. So far my two main points of discussion are, the explosion itself, was it from god or was it random, and was there time and space before that explosion.

Lets outline the bing bang theory.
An explosion took place, this explosion as believed by the non-religious, was random, a product of chance. To me as a creationist, this sounds rather contradictory to the laws of physics, it is illogical and mountains of evidence suggests that it is impossible for an explosion to take place randomly and the result of that explosion being something so complex as the universe and all that is in it. Speaking about the laws of nature (laws of physics), Stephen Hawking a well known scientific figure states the following: “….the laws of nature are fixed…..”. this very statement goes a very long way back, pretty much back to the big bang. As the name suggests, it is impossible for something so complex as the universe to have come about by a random explosion without the intervention of something intelligent. Unless ofcourse scientists believe that prior to the big bang, there were different governing laws that existed then, unlike the laws that we have after the big bang, such as those of quantom physics, and normal laws of physics.

An undeniable fact and i challenge anyone who dissagrees to prove me wrong, is that the laws of physics have and will always be the same from the fraction of a second that the big bang explosion started, up untill the end of this universe. Keeping that in mind, when has humanity ever seen or heard of something intelligent coming to be as a result of an uncontrolled explosion except for the big bang? When we hear the word explosion our minds immediately think of something chaotic that never leaves a pleasent trace, especially if we hear the word ‘uncontrolled explosion’. However, a controlled explosion, in which an intelligent designer has worked on, looks more like this: (i don’t know if the image will show, but it’s a photo of a fireworks explosion, for those of you who want to argue how fireworks compare to the universe, please don’t. It’s only an example of what i mean)

http://www.whoguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/fireworks.jpg

As far as i know, the only time a beautiful and pleasant outcome of an explosion is derived from fireworks, an explosion on which a designer has worked on. if we gather the materials needed to make such a beautiful explosion and we just stuff them into a tube randomly or with oue eyes closed, we ain't going to get a good fireworks display. it will be just a chaotic explosion.

So for those who deny that God created the universe and that we are part of the creation of God rather than of chance, please explain how what i have said is incorrect.

I will continue to work on the other point of wether time and space existed before the big bang.
I can’t fit all that in one post anyway.

everything put forth is a product of LACK of education on the subject nothing more.

If you even made a partial attempt at understanding the facts and concepts you would easily see the errors of your ways.


you start out with a mistake

An explosion took place

and you finish with mistakes

intelligent designer

It was a expansion, not a explosion.

there is no place for ID in our understanding of nature, we do not revert back to mythology to understand our universe making the same mistake ancient men made

 

[fallingblood]

everything put forth is a product of LACK of education on the subject nothing more.

If you even made a partial attempt at understanding the facts and concepts you would easily see the errors of your ways.


you start out with a mistake and you finish with mistakes




It was a expansion, not a explosion.

there is no place for ID in our understanding of nature, we do not revert back to mythology to understand our universe making the same mistake ancient men made

Why not inform him then instead of just tearing him down?

 

[shawn001]

My points of discussion so far.

Firstly i would say that as a creationist, i accept the theory put forward by science as to how our universe came to exist, ie. a big bang occured.
So far in the human quest to understanding the universe there are two proposed theories concerning what was before the big bang if there was anything at all that is. The first theory is that there was some kind of a smoke cloud which is one possibility because new stars are created from a similar scenario, where this smoke is called a nebula. The other theory is that the bang just happened, there was nothing before it. These two theories however, do not concern me, what concerns me is the actual explosion and whether time and space existed before this explosion.

I know that many scientists say that time and space didn’t exist but i have some questions regarding this viewpoint, so this is where i have to stop and elaborate. So far my two main points of discussion are, the explosion itself, was it from god or was it random, and was there time and space before that explosion.

Lets outline the bing bang theory.
An explosion took place, this explosion as believed by the non-religious, was random, a product of chance. To me as a creationist, this sounds rather contradictory to the laws of physics, it is illogical and mountains of evidence suggests that it is impossible for an explosion to take place randomly and the result of that explosion being something so complex as the universe and all that is in it. Speaking about the laws of nature (laws of physics), Stephen Hawking a well known scientific figure states the following: “….the laws of nature are fixed…..”. this very statement goes a very long way back, pretty much back to the big bang. As the name suggests, it is impossible for something so complex as the universe to have come about by a random explosion without the intervention of something intelligent. Unless ofcourse scientists believe that prior to the big bang, there were different governing laws that existed then, unlike the laws that we have after the big bang, such as those of quantom physics, and normal laws of physics.

An undeniable fact and i challenge anyone who dissagrees to prove me wrong, is that the laws of physics have and will always be the same from the fraction of a second that the big bang explosion started, up untill the end of this universe. Keeping that in mind, when has humanity ever seen or heard of something intelligent coming to be as a result of an uncontrolled explosion except for the big bang? When we hear the word explosion our minds immediately think of something chaotic that never leaves a pleasent trace, especially if we hear the word ‘uncontrolled explosion’. However, a controlled explosion, in which an intelligent designer has worked on, looks more like this: (i don’t know if the image will show, but it’s a photo of a fireworks explosion, for those of you who want to argue how fireworks compare to the universe, please don’t. It’s only an example of what i mean)

http://www.whoguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/fireworks.jpg

As far as i know, the only time a beautiful and pleasant outcome of an explosion is derived from fireworks, an explosion on which a designer has worked on. if we gather the materials needed to make such a beautiful explosion and we just stuff them into a tube randomly or with oue eyes closed, we ain't going to get a good fireworks display. it will be just a chaotic explosion.

So for those who deny that God created the universe and that we are part of the creation of God rather than of chance, please explain how what i have said is incorrect.

I will continue to work on the other point of wether time and space existed before the big bang.
I can’t fit all that in one post anyway.

"
Firstly i would say that as a creationist, i accept the theory put forward by science as to how our universe came to exist, ie. a big bang occured. "

That is good because its an extremely well supported scientific theory that explains the facts.

"
So far in the human quest to understanding the universe there are two proposed theories concerning what was before the big bang if there was anything at all that is. The first theory is that there was some kind of a smoke cloud which is one possibility because new stars are created from a similar scenario, where this smoke is called a nebula. The other theory is that the bang just happened, there was nothing before it. These two theories however, do not concern me, what concerns me is the actual explosion and whether time and space existed before this explosion."

All of this is wrong. There are also a lot more theories.

There was energy before matter for one. Stars come from gas and dust and form from steallar accreation. We know roughly when the first stars formed after the bang.

Very importantly the bang was NOT an explosion. That is a misconception.

Its also been shown you don't need a god or break any laws of physics to have the universe come from "nothing." If it did or not has not been proven, just shown possible.

First you even have to know about the theory to discuss it better.

WMAP Site FAQs - Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP)

1. What is the Big Bang theory?
   The Big Bang theory says that the universe was very hot and concentrated in the distant past and, ever since then, space has been stretching and cooling. This is the only theory that successfully explains the observations made by astronomers.
   
   
   Astronomers see galaxies moving apart from one another: space in the universe is stretching. Astronomers see a remarkably uniform microwave glow everywhere in the sky; this is the heat left over from an earlier time, when the universe was very hot. This was predicted by the Big Bang theory BEFORE it was discovered! Astronomers measure how much of each of the lightest chemical elements (like hydrogen, deuterium, and lithium) are in space; their abundances agree with what was calculated to have been in an earlier time when the universe was so hot that it was like a nuclear fusion reactor, building up the lightest elements. The heaviest elements (like carbon, nitrogen, and carbon) were made later in stars. Stars are mostly made of hydrogen. The Big Bang theory explains the most basic observed properties of our universe.
2. What happened before the Big Bang? What happened right at the moment of the Big Bang?
   We don't know. To even address these questions we need to have a quantum theory of gravity. We have a quantum theory, and we have a gravity theory, but these two theories somehow need to be combined. We know that our current gravity theory does not apply to the conditions of the earliest moments of the Big Bang. This is exciting research now in progress!
3. Was the Big Bang an explosion?
   No, the Big Bang was not an explosion. We don't know what, exactly, happened in the earliest times, but it was not an explosion in the usual way that people picture explosions. There was not a bunch of debris that sprang out, whizzing out into the surrounding space. In fact, there was no surrounding space. There was no debris strewn outwards. Space itself has been stretching and carrying material with it.
4. Where did the Big Bang happen?
   Everywhere! Every place in space came from the Big Bang. It is space itself that has stretched. The erroneous concept that you can point to a spot in the sky and say that the Big Bang happened at that spot is a result of the incorrect mental picture of debris flung out through space in an explosion-like event.

WMAP Site FAQs

 

[outhouse]

Why not inform him then instead of just tearing him down?

I did

expansion not explosion

No such thing as ID exist


the problem we have here is when people make statements as fact or accurate, they need to be corrected. I'm happy when someone finds me wrong and corrects me so I can get on the right path

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

my first question is this:
1. The Big Bang Theory. what can you tell me about it?

although the question is very basic, i am not seeking for others to waste time reading about it and to explain it to me, but rather i am asking a detailed answer on how it all began. if no one from the atheist/evolution side wants to answer it, then i will answer it from the creation side and hopefully the discussion can begin. God willing i will post my answer to the question another time when i am able to. i will explain how islam views it, and what it says on the topic. until then, all the best to everyone.

Well, it began from God. God is the best explanation for the big bang. Let me give a brief background.

In the early 1900's, an idiot named Albert Einstien came out with his General Theory of Relativity. Now based on these equations, {the famous E=MC(squared)}, he noticed that when he applied these equations to the universe, the universe would no longer be static (eternal). These equations were significant, because it was always thought that the universe was static and stationary. But based on this equation, the universe was expanding. Einstein did not like the implications of this, so he fudged the equations to get back to a static universe. A few years later, two prominent guys in mathematics and astronomy, (Friedman and Lemaitre), came up with independent solutions to his equation which also prediced an expanding universe. At this point, everything was all mathematical. There was no scientific evidence supporting this. That was until 1929, which Edwin Hubbel discovered the famous "Red Shift" as he looked through a telescope. He witnessed light from distant galaxies being shifted towards the red end of the spectrum. This is the Doppler Effect, except instead of using sound, there was light. This meant that the other galaxies were moving away from one another, thus, the universe is expanding. The Hubble discovery is one of the greatest discoveries in the history of science. So we have proof that the universe is expanding.

Friedman and Lemaitre then formulated what is called "The Standard Big Bang model", which described the universe beginning to exist a finite time ago some 13.7 billion years ago. The expansion doesn't suggest the universe expanding into preexisting space, but the expansion of space itself. So we know that the universe is expanding. But if you trace the expansion backwards in time, the universe will shrink into zero distance. At this point all physics break down. That is why the big bang has been called the beginning of the universe, a point at which nothing existed prior.

Now the only question is, why and how? It is important to note that the big bang model has the most scientific evidence supporting it. Throughout the 20th century it has been well corroberated. That is the big bang in a nut shell. And i will argue that only a supernatural being is capable of causing this.

 

[PolyHedral]

Now the only question is, why and how?

Why does there need to be a why? What you've basically said is the purest form of God of the Gaps.

 

[Pineblossom]

That is the big bang in a nut shell. And i will argue that only a supernatural being is capable of causing this.

What you have described is the 'alphabet soup' theory. The universe is so complicated someone must have arranged the letters to spell 'big bang'.

Because we don't know we invent a suitable story to explain the unknown.

Fantasy is OK for kids but we have to grown up.

The scientific answer is - we don't know. Who knows what science will discover in the future but right now - we don't know.

But none of this makes any difference in my understanding of God.

Perhaps God is beyond the Big Bang.

 

[Gharib]

Well, it began from God. God is the best explanation for the big bang. Let me give a brief background.

In the early 1900's, an idiot named Albert Einstien came out with his General Theory of Relativity. Now based on these equations, {the famous E=MC(squared)}, he noticed that when he applied these equations to the universe, the universe would no longer be static (eternal). These equations were significant, because it was always thought that the universe was static and stationary. But based on this equation, the universe was expanding. Einstein did not like the implications of this, so he fudged the equations to get back to a static universe. A few years later, two prominent guys in mathematics and astronomy, (Friedman and Lemaitre), came up with independent solutions to his equation which also prediced an expanding universe. At this point, everything was all mathematical. There was no scientific evidence supporting this. That was until 1929, which Edwin Hubbel discovered the famous "Red Shift" as he looked through a telescope. He witnessed light from distant galaxies being shifted towards the red end of the spectrum. This is the Doppler Effect, except instead of using sound, there was light. This meant that the other galaxies were moving away from one another, thus, the universe is expanding. The Hubble discovery is one of the greatest discoveries in the history of science. So we have proof that the universe is expanding.

Friedman and Lemaitre then formulated what is called "The Standard Big Bang model", which described the universe beginning to exist a finite time ago some 13.7 billion years ago. The expansion doesn't suggest the universe expanding into preexisting space, but the expansion of space itself. So we know that the universe is expanding. But if you trace the expansion backwards in time, the universe will shrink into zero distance. At this point all physics break down. That is why the big bang has been called the beginning of the universe, a point at which nothing existed prior.

Now the only question is, why and how? It is important to note that the big bang model has the most scientific evidence supporting it. Throughout the 20th century it has been well corroberated. That is the big bang in a nut shell. And i will argue that only a supernatural being is capable of causing this.

a few points, according to Stephen Hawking, energy and matter are the same thing, so he says we don't have three 'ingredients' but just two so einsteins formula could also look like E=ec2 .

as for the universe expanding, that is correct, i agree with that.

plus for scientists to say that there was nothing prior to the big bang is just to make an ignorant assumption about something they cannot prove. and if something is expanding there has to be something outside the universe for the universe to expand to. if there is no space or time on the outside of our universe, then into where is the universe expanding? a balloon when blown into, expands, where does it expand, into space and time outside of what is in it.

 

[YmirGF]

plus for scientists to say that there was nothing prior to the big bang is just to make an ignorant assumption about something they cannot prove.

No, it is not an ignorant assumption, Eselam. You even give the proper answer - THEY CANNOT PROVE what happened "before" the Big Bang. It is because they know this that they play it safe and say nothing existed, as everything we KNOW was created via the Big Bang. As I told Fatihah, if you add an external agent to the Big Bang, i.e. God, you are no longer talking about the Big Bang. You are talking about something else, as the Big Bang is not centered around external agents of any kind. In those terms, it was a natural event.

and if something is expanding there has to be something outside the universe for the universe to expand to. if there is no space or time on the outside of our universe, then into where is the universe expanding? a balloon when blown into, expands, where does it expand, into space and time outside of what is in it.

This one is difficult to wrap ones head around. What you have to understand is that it is space/time that is expanding... there is NOTHING outside of it to stop that expansion. Likewise, there is currently no way to pierce space/time to see IF there is anything outside of it. People can speculate all they like as to what, if anything, exists outside of our system of reality, but CURRENTLY there is no way to verify those speculations.

 

[lunakilo]

My points of discussion so far.

Firstly i would say that as a creationist, i accept the theory put forward by science as to how our universe came to exist, ie. a big bang occured.
So far in the human quest to understanding the universe there are two proposed theories concerning what was before the big bang if there was anything at all that is. The first theory is that there was some kind of a smoke cloud which is one possibility because new stars are created from a similar scenario, where this smoke is called a nebula. The other theory is that the bang just happened, there was nothing before it. These two theories however, do not concern me, what concerns me is the actual explosion and whether time and space existed before this explosion.

I know that many scientists say that time and space didn’t exist but i have some questions regarding this viewpoint, so this is where i have to stop and elaborate. So far my two main points of discussion are, the explosion itself, was it from god or was it random, and was there time and space before that explosion.

Lets outline the bing bang theory.
An explosion took place, this explosion as believed by the non-religious, was random, a product of chance. To me as a creationist, this sounds rather contradictory to the laws of physics, it is illogical and mountains of evidence suggests that it is impossible for an explosion to take place randomly and the result of that explosion being something so complex as the universe and all that is in it. Speaking about the laws of nature (laws of physics), Stephen Hawking a well known scientific figure states the following: “….the laws of nature are fixed…..”. this very statement goes a very long way back, pretty much back to the big bang. As the name suggests, it is impossible for something so complex as the universe to have come about by a random explosion without the intervention of something intelligent. Unless ofcourse scientists believe that prior to the big bang, there were different governing laws that existed then, unlike the laws that we have after the big bang, such as those of quantom physics, and normal laws of physics.

First just a note on the big bang.
The theory just comes from the observation that the universe is expanding, and thus must have been denser in the past.
You can then use the known laws of physics and 'run time backwards'.
All the theory states is that the universe was once very hot and dense and expanded rapidly.

As far as I know, there is no way of knowing how far back in time it makes sense to do so.
I remember that the cosmic microwave background radiation and the abundance of primordial elements support going back to about 379000 years 'after' the Big Bang.
But I don't remember any messurable evidence supporting the time prior to this (I may be mistaken aboy this, i am not an expert )

My point is, that you get to a point when you go backwards in time before witch you really don't know what happened.
Maybe the universe was created and expanded.
Maybe the universe oscillates so that the current expansion is just the result of an earlier version of the universe collapsing.

Your outline of the big bang theory that 'An explosion took place' (I choose to read this to be the layman's word for expansion) and that it was 'a product of chance' is a theory that fits with the hot and dense expanding universe, but is not the only one.

An undeniable fact and i challenge anyone who dissagrees to prove me wrong, is that the laws of physics have and will always be the same from the fraction of a second that the big bang explosion started, up untill the end of this universe.

It is not 'an undeniable fact'.
It is however the simplest assumption to make.
If the laws of physics have changed over time there is no way I can think of to prove that (nor can I think of any way to disprove it for that matter ).
Nor would I have any idea of how to determine what those laws were like or why they changed.

Keeping that in mind, when has humanity ever seen or heard of something intelligent coming to be as a result of an uncontrolled explosion except for the big bang? When we hear the word explosion our minds immediately think of something chaotic that never leaves a pleasent trace, especially if we hear the word ‘uncontrolled explosion’. However, a controlled explosion, in which an intelligent designer has worked on, looks more like this: (i don’t know if the image will show, but it’s a photo of a fireworks explosion, for those of you who want to argue how fireworks compare to the universe, please don’t. It’s only an example of what i mean)

http://www.whoguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/fireworks.jpg

As far as i know, the only time a beautiful and pleasant outcome of an explosion is derived from fireworks, an explosion on which a designer has worked on. if we gather the materials needed to make such a beautiful explosion and we just stuff them into a tube randomly or with oue eyes closed, we ain't going to get a good fireworks display. it will be just a chaotic explosion.

So for those who deny that God created the universe and that we are part of the creation of God rather than of chance, please explain how what i have said is incorrect.

You are using the classic argument of "what is the chance that a pile of building materials will suddenly, at random (or maybe by an explotion) rearrange them selves into a house?"
Well most people will agree that that is very unlikely, but that is not what people are arguing.

You are forgetting the laws of physics.

For example, what are the chances that a bunch of randomly arranged water molecules will suddenly rearrange themselves into a beautiful snowflake?
Most people would agree that the chances are very small, but if you simply lower the temperature the molecules naturally rearrange themselves to form a snowflake. No chance involved. Ok, chance is involved in the sense that where the molecules end up in the snowflake depends on where they were located before the tempereture drop, but a snowflake will form even if you move the initial molecules around.
One could even claim that the formation of the snowflake is inevitable when the temperature decreases.

You could use the same arguments when it comes to the formation of the universe.
As the universe cooled atoms were inevitably formed.
Atoms formed molecules.
Molecules formed more complex molecules, and so on...

I assume you could say "but who made the laws of physics?"
I don't think anyone did, but even if we assume God did it, you have reduced God from the creater of complex things to the creater of simple rules

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

What you have described is the 'alphabet soup' theory. The universe is so complicated someone must have arranged the letters to spell 'big bang'.

Not at all. According to the theory, literally nothing existed prior to the big bang. So it is not a matter of me saying "the universe is so complicated", at least not in the case. The argument is, God is the most plausible explanation based on the evidence that is presented.

Because we don't know we invent a suitable story to explain the unknown.

We are not inventing a suitable story based on what we don't know. We are going with a most plausible hypothesis based on what we DO know. Since we know the universe began to exist, then it has a cause. The cause cannot be material or spatial, with enormous power and free will. Sounds like God to me.

Fantasy is OK for kids but we have to grown up.

Fantasy is Ok for kids, huh. So some of you people need to stop believing that something can come from nothing, that chaos can create order, and that life can come from non-life. If that isn't fantasy I don't know what is.

The scientific answer is - we don't know. Who knows what science will discover in the future but right now - we don't know.

You are assuming that science can prove everything, which is special pleading. Science will never be able to explain the origin of nature. So at this point you have to posit metaphysics. If you are taking the stance that we should believe everything that can be scientifically proven, you are begging the question in favor of naturalism, which is a fallacy.

But none of this makes any difference in my understanding of God.

Perhaps God is beyond the Big Bang.

Newsflash, he is!!!! :yes: