• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The big bang, something from nothing?

jonathan180iq

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
ChristineM said:
There was nothing to misunderstand. I provided proof of my statement.

So, perhaps if you actually addressed your posts to whoever you were responding too rather than randomly placing "prove it" where it could be misunderstood, such problems wouldn't be a problrm
Click to expand...
Huh?

I quoted Thief in the post you're referring to...

Why you thought I was talking to you, I'm unsure.

Post #149. (Please note that it's unedited, if that's something you're concerned with.)
The big bang, something from nothing?
 
Bear Wild

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
ChristineM said:
[1404.1207] Spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing

Krauss knew exactly what he was talking about... Apparently you dont.;
Click to expand...
I read the link you provided and to me the problem is with the word "nothing". The universe could not come from absolute nothingness. Something has to be present. I am not a physicist but the nothing that L Kraus referred to is still something even if it is considered a "quantum vacuum" there were still somethings there. Nothing can come from absolute nothingness.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Wild Fox said:
I read the link you provided and to me the problem is with the word "nothing". The universe could not come from absolute nothingness. Something has to be present. I am not a physicist but the nothing that L Kraus referred to is still something even if it is considered a "quantum vacuum" there were still somethings there. Nothing can come from absolute nothingness.
Click to expand...
"Absolute nothingness" appears to be an impossibility in our universe.
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Wild Fox said:
I read the link you provided and to me the problem is with the word "nothing". The universe could not come from absolute nothingness. Something has to be present. I am not a physicist but the nothing that L Kraus referred to is still something even if it is considered a "quantum vacuum" there were still somethings there. Nothing can come from absolute nothingness.
Click to expand...

As you said you ate not a physicist, your understanding of quantum physics backs that up. You are mistaking your lifelong preconception as reality.

In the atomic world the laws of causality did not begin to coalesce until 10e-43 of a second after the bb and did not fully form for some time later. In the quantum world such a law does not exist.

There is nothing in physics to say something cannot come from nothing

Edit : first line should read - As you said you are not a physicist,
 
Last edited:
ecco

ecco

Veteran Member
leroy said:
Obviously a book with “A universe from nothing” as title, is better than something like “a universe from a quantum field”
Click to expand...
Obviously a book with “A universe from nothing” as title, is better than a book about:
  • An eternal god - an omniscient, omnipotent entity that has always existed
  • A first god - an omniscient, omnipotent entity that poofed into existence
 
jonathan180iq

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
ChristineM said:
Your post #153, which i replied to doesn't quote anyone.

It it immediately followed my post.

Also your post #149 does not quote anyone.
Click to expand...
I submit, for your viewing pleasure:

Exhibit (A) - Post #149
149.png


Exhibit (B) - post #153
153.png
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Bear Wild

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
ChristineM said:
As you said you ate not a physicist, your understanding of quantum physics backs that up. You are mistaking your lifelong preconception as reality.

In the atomic world the laws of causality did not begin to coalesce until 10e-43 of a second after the bb and did not fully form for some time later. In the quantum world such a law does not exist.

There is nothing in physics to say something cannot come from nothing

Edit : first line should read - As you said you are not a physicist,
Click to expand...
You are right my lifelong preconception of reality limits me although I am not completely unfamiliar with quantum physics but I still do not understand how you can create anything from nothing. If all you have is nothing what would cause anything to occur including the big bang. There is no evidence in our world that I am aware of where this has occurred since everything is a transformation from one thing to another. An equation or theory may be able to conceive of such an idea which may be interesting but it does not necessarily make it real. But as I am apparently ignorant on how this could occur I am willing to try and understand. Do most people in this field agree with this or are there those who believe that there has always been something to transform from?
 
gnostic

gnostic

The Lost One
Wild Fox said:
But as I am apparently ignorant on how this could occur I am willing to try and understand. Do most people in this field agree with this or are there those who believe that there has always been something to transform from?
Click to expand...

I don't know about you, but if you really want to learn more, then all you have to do is just ask. There are plenty of people who physics better than I do, particularly on astrophysics, relativity, quantum mechanism.

When I was at universities, my physics and maths were confined to a specific areas in science, due to the courses I took (civil engineering in the mid-1980s and computer science in late 90s).

In civil engineering, most of my physics centred around mechanisms of the "Newtonian" type (eg forces, and hyrodynamics), so I wasn't required to learn relativity, quantum mechanism and nuclear physics, so these were left out.

In computer science, these modern physics were mostly left out, and most of the physics, concern with electricity, electronics, optics and light for fibre optic network, and electromagnetism for radio waves and microwave used in wireless networking).

I was always had a fascination of astronomy, but never took a single subject relating to it, so everything I have learned in the past 16 or so years, come from reading my old physics book and other sources, learning about relativity, quantum physics, particle physics, astrophysics. I have learned a fair bit about the Big Bang, but I am still no expert on the subject.

So if I don't understand something, I would either look it up or I ask some questions.

The problem with many creationists and theists here, is that they have misconception of what the Big Bang is, and how it work. Some of them also struggle with evolution, another subject that I am no expert in.

The other problem is that they often rely on false information, propaganda, or worse, some of them are delusional enough to think their mass conspiracies among scientists.

But if you are willing to learn, as I do, then try understand what you are reading, and if you get stuck ask questions. There are many here who can help clarify what you have read but don't understand.

Among them the more knowledgeable members (in science) here are valjean, polymath, ecco, exchemist, shunyadragon, and a whole wagon-ful of others.

Metis is retired, but here, he is our resident anthropologist and archaeologist, he had taught theology too.
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Wild Fox said:
You are right my lifelong preconception of reality limits me although I am not completely unfamiliar with quantum physics but I still do not understand how you can create anything from nothing. If all you have is nothing what would cause anything to occur including the big bang. There is no evidence in our world that I am aware of where this has occurred since everything is a transformation from one thing to another. An equation or theory may be able to conceive of such an idea which may be interesting but it does not necessarily make it real. But as I am apparently ignorant on how this could occur I am willing to try and understand. Do most people in this field agree with this or are there those who believe that there has always been something to transform from?
Click to expand...

The current reality was, as understood in the relative domain we know and love did not exist at the time of the bb. The laws that govern our universe, including causality did not begin to coalesce until after the event.

As to who believes. like all hypothesis of how the universe was formed, its hypothetical. I know of 28 different hypothesis, perhaps there are many more. They are all mathematically sound, and some have the benefit of physical evidence/artifacts in our universe.

I have found a wiki on false vacuums that may help in understanding the arxiv paper i linked a few days ago.
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
If you think this is not possible according to BB theory, please explain why? It seems to me that since the CMBR temperature has a positive value of approximately 3K, it could very well be masking a lower temperature background CMBR of an earlier Big Bang universe.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top