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The Big Bang

Do you believe the big bang happened?

  • Yes

    Votes: 19 65.5%
  • No

    Votes: 3 10.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 7 24.1%

  • Total voters
    29

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
Do you believe in the big bang?

I had a hard time choosing my answer for this poll. I decided on "other".
You see I believe in God. I believe God is the creator of this universe and all other possible universes, whether former or present.

So yes, I believe this particular universe had a beginning. That seems obvious enough. But I believe that this universe came into existence when God willed it to come into existence, and I believe that occurred when He said, "Let there be Light"

I don't know if there was a Bang!! But that really doesn't matter.
Scientists sure speak a lot of this thing they call a singularity, yet no one has ever seen one. It's really just a mathematical concept at best.

Well, in my opinion, God could be considered to be much like this singularity, that they speak of, but few are willing to admit that.

I would have answered no, because science won't consider God as the cause of the "big bang". Once they include Him in their theory, I will consider believing in the big bang.
 

nash8

Da man, when I walk thru!
About the reverend father Georges, educated in a theistically oriented environment in the 20's and 30's, went to war in the 30's, dabbled in sophormic cosmology, never looked through a really complex telescope, and on and on. His coralaries and hypothesis on the evolution of cosmotic motions are quite unremarkable in veiwing from an isopatic direction, considering that the cosmos, as we now know, it to be totally random.

"God doesn't play dice." - Einstein


Looking at his discoveries:

(1) He entertains the assumption of a singular "singularity", I love saying that, that exists in a......

(2) "void", a nothingness without direction, motion, substance, or value.

Considering that there was no theoretical discovery of dark energy/dark matter at the time of his theory, and considering that we really don't know how it acts with regard to direction, motion, substance, or value today, I would say that he made a pretty accurate description of it.

(3) What contained the "singularity" for all those....I want to say years, but that would mean "time", and there wasn't any time then.

There could have been time, it just would have been "different" from time as we see it now. And is far as what contained it, it wasn't necessarily "contained" more so that it wasn't "expanded" enough for us to delineate one thing from another. The big bang is just the point at which we consider the matter, that we can observe, to have expanded to a certain point according mathematical theories of universal expansion.

What was the container made from, what was the "gravity" that held it together and how "hot" was it ? From what was this "plasma" made ?

The theory that I support would be that the "container" and the "gravity" would be somehow related to the Higgs interactions with dark energy/dark matter.

Dark energy seemingly "creates itself" for lack of a better word. So basically, it took dark energy a specific amount of time to break the surrounding barrier of Higgs particles which would have been surrounding the ordinary "matter", and once that barrier of Higgs was broken the massive amount of energy, both dark and normal, would have expanded outwards at an incredible speed.

Like a water balloon filled with water(dark energy), and different size magnetic objects(matter), and even smaller metal objects(Higgs particles). But all of this is happening, at first, in a zero gravity type environment so the water and particles would be expanding outward in all directions. This happens because the force of the dark energy expanding would counteract the gravitational pull of the matter at first.

Then slowly, the smaller particles would come together around the larger Particles due to the magnetic force(gravity) of the larger objects, as well as by the process of the smaller magnetic objects(small pieces of matter), being stopped from expanding rapidly outward by the dark energy, by the small metallic objects(Higgs particles), thus allowing them to be trapped by the gravitational pull of the larger metallic objects(large pieces of matter).

I have absolutely no idea how hot it was, but I'm sure you could come close to finding out how hot it was by using a variation of the Ideal gas law. Just take the estimated mass of all the matter in the universe, and compress it down to the volume that scientists postulate the universe was at the size of the big bang. Just find the pressure of plasma, and the universal constant of plasma, and you got yourself a temperature. Not my cup of tea though.

The Plasma was composed of all the "ordinary matter/energy" in the universe. Maybe dark energy/dark matter too. I don't really know how those would be separated/combined to be measured in this state.

(4) He says that the "singularity" suddenly inflated into the universe (void) that we live in, about 13 to 20 billions of years ago.

And? That's basically the same conclusion that scientists have come to using advanced calculations, measurements, and years and years of dedicated research.

(5) Where is the supposed "center" of the inflation point, and is it still going on, it's said that the inflation is still occurring.

Yes, according to calculations the universe is still expanding, and the best explanation of this universal expansion is that of dark energy. Since we can't really estimate or observe the "edge" of the universe, there really is no "center". Think of it like the balloon analogy I used earlier. Where is the center of the balloon once it pops?


If this "singularity" inflated from a central point, why do galaxies collide?

Galaxies collide because the gravitational pull of the galaxies overcomes the expansion force of the dark energy once you reach a certain "expansion point". The theoretical force of dark energy is extremely weak.

Why aren't all the galaxies, energies, matter, and other substances going out from the source of the "center" of inflation ?

They were at one point, and possibly could still be. There are observations that stars are moving farther away from each other. However, the reason why galaxies, energies, and matter aren't moving at an generally observable rate is because the gravity of these substances is generally stronger than the expansive force that dark energy is placing on it. Plus you have the possibility of Higgs particles slowing down the speed at which matter moves as well. Simply put, the force that expanded the universe can't overcome the force that contracts it. At least when it is not all concentrated in a small place, and the matter it acts on does not have enough gravitational pull to overcome it.

What changes the direction of galaxies to escape the center of the inflation?

Since there really is no center... nothing. But at the beginning, galaxies/matter was pushed outward by the force of dark energy. As that energy "balanced/equalized", the gravitational pull of these galaxies holds them in place, at least in relation to one another, but even this is not certain, as I mentioned earlier, they're are actual observations that show that stars are moving farther away from each other.


Was the "singularity" spherical, or was it focused when it inflated, does anyone really know?

The best way I've seen it described as a balloon with dots on it. Not sure on the exact shape/size of the balloon though. From a Philosophical standpoint, I would think some type of sphere would fit, as it is the most symmetrical, easily repeated shape in nature.

If the universe is random, as it seems to be, how far out into the "void" does it go, what direction are galaxies coming at us now ?

Can you cite some evidence that the universe is indeed Random? What do you mean by random anyway? By random, do you mean unpredictable by human rational logic?

To answer your question of how far it goes. We don't really know, other than it is constantly changing, and were not even sure of that. It seems as though the universe is constantly getting bigger.

As far as what direction are galaxies coming at us now. That would depend on complex formula of gravitational pull of specific galaxies in relation to one another, as well as the force exerted by theoretical "dark energy" on said galaxies, and how the Higgs particles effect the movement of matter. The scales of which all of these are extremely small, and as of yet, not totally determined. I will leave to you the calculation of how long it will be before the closest galaxy collides into ours epically and totally destroying us all. ;)

I could continue but no one is really reading this crap anyway.
There wasn't ever a big bang, the Cosmos is totally random, stars are created and galaxies collide, and we all live awhile.
Good deal if you can get it.

I still love ya Mud, and I'm still reading your crap. ;) Whether the big bang is a good name for what theoretically happened I dunno. I think the big blow up and then pop sounds better to me, or maybe the balloon hasn't popped yet, and it should be called the big balloon blow up. And I still don't think God plays dice, but I agree with you that it's a good deal, and we are lucky enough to have it.
 
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s2a

Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
Do you believe in the big bang?


I accept the evidence that the "theory" of the "Big Bang" best explains the cosmos as we observe it today.

"Belief" is not an issue, any more than I choose not to "believe/not believe " in Santa as living entity.

I like the concept of a Santa, just can't "believe" in him to be true.

However, the "Big Bang" makes sense.

Next?
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
Given the "apple" to the source of the pull curve of attraction of any form or source of some "force" known as "gravity",
(should be some commas there),this "mirror" of the total lack of any "pull" exibited by the "void" would be exluded from the fomulae for the "inflation",
wouldn't it ? Now given that, and all of the force needed to expand all this matter into this forceless "void", I would think that all the inertia needed to propel this "subtance" that was in the "container" of "nothingness" would generate all the momentum needed to keep all the "subtance" screaming outward into the empty "void" at proposterous speeds, and away from the center from which all the "substances" came.
What was left in the "center" ? Maybe another "void" ? Figure that out first, will you, without using a mirror and smoke to reflect my theories. Everything that you have said is in direct opposition to what I said, almost like negativity personified.
~
Inertia applied to "substance" generates momentum of the "substance", minus the subraction of the energy applied to the "substance".
The momentum of the "substance" would maintain a direction away from the applied force applied to it, "away" from the force, and I'll add,
in all observable directions from the source of the applied inflation, which was almost most certainly in the center of the applied force.
Given momentum, away from the force, what adds to the inflation to increase the "substance's" speed, remember....still inflating !
~
Still haven't found the "source" have we, I guess it would be "negative energy", YAH ! Galaxies with increased inflationary speeds don't change their course of direction and reverse their momentum to collide with other galaxies, (substances) do they, "they", as in entities, in the way of the gigantic articles that they are made from.
~
A lot of answers to the problem are still uncovered to this day. The Big Bang theory isn't one of the answers, there are too many holes in the theories, oh..., one theory in particular, the loss of additional enertia,
notice the word "additional", and "negative energy" doesn't get it.
~
Wow....almost nonsense in it's fluidity....oh well..
nuff stuff,
~
'mud
 
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nash8

Da man, when I walk thru!
Given the "apple" to the source of the pull curve of attraction of any form or source of some "force" known as "gravity",
(should be some commas there),this "mirror" of the total lack of any "pull" exibited by the "void" would be exluded from the fomulae for the "inflation",
wouldn't it?

I don't really understand the point your trying to argue, but why would you assume that the "void" pulls? If anything, I would argue that the void "pushes".

So what is your theory of what is beyond the confines of the universe?

Now given that, and all of the force needed to expand all this matter into this forceless "void", I would think that all the inertia needed to propel this "subtance" that was in the "container" of "nothingness" would generate all the momentum needed to keep all the "subtance" screaming outward into the empty "void" at proposterous speeds, and away from the center from which all the "substances" came.

As I said earlier, in my opinion, the container was not "nothingness", but rather a massive amount of Higgs particles, that are essentially theorized to keep all the "substance" that you speak of from screaming outward into the empty void at preposterous speeds. A = F/M, so as mass increases (more Higgs particles begin to surround substance), acceleration slows down. And again, there is no "center" as you speak of. Also, in addition to this, as acceleration slows down, and gravitational pull becomes stronger, the direction of substance begins to change, and thus does not continually expand out, and away forever.

What was left in the "center" ? Maybe another "void" ? Figure that out first, will you, without using a mirror and smoke to reflect my theories.

First of all, I have no idea what your "theories" are, as all I have seen as that you are bashing a particular theory without necessarily proposing a theory of your own.

Secondly, as I said before, there was no "center" to speak of, but I would wager to say that dark energy would be what would be in the majority of "space", so I would assume that would be what would be in what we consider "the center" of the universe.

Everything that you have said is in direct opposition to what I said, almost like negativity personified.

You asked questions, and never really proposed your own theory, so I don't know how I could be in "direct opposition" to what you said. I just answered your questions according to the theory that I consider to be the most accurate.

Inertia applied to "substance" generates momentum of the "substance", minus the subraction of the energy applied to the "substance".The momentum of the "substance" would maintain a direction away from the applied force applied to it, "away" from the force, and I'll add,
in all observable directions from the source of the applied inflation, which was almost most certainly in the center of the applied force.
Given momentum, away from the force, what adds to the inflation to increase the "substance's" speed, remember....still inflating !

I don't really understand what your asking here. What do you mean "adds to the inflation to increase "substance speed"

Still haven't found the "source" have we, I guess it would be "negative energy", YAH ! Galaxies with increased inflationary speeds don't change their course of direction and reverse their momentum to collide with other galaxies, (substances) do they, "they", as in entities, in the way of the gigantic articles that they are made from.

Reverse momentum, no. Change direction, yes. You have the force of space expansion, and gravitational pull both acting on galaxies at the same time. So while direction changes, I doubt either of those forces would be strong enough to stop the momentum of a galaxy, reverse it in order to collide with another galaxy.

This pretty much explains it better than I could.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090427195420AAZWTdH


A lot of answers to the problem are still uncovered to this day. The Big Bang theory isn't one of the answers, there are too many holes in the theories, oh..., one theory in particular, the loss of additional enertia,
notice the word "additional", and "negative energy" doesn't get it.
~
Wow....almost nonsense in it's fluidity....oh well..
nuff stuff,
~
'mud

The loss of additional initial inertia, in my opinion would be caused by gravitational pull, as well as the increased effect of larger and larger groups of Higgs "particles" surrounding matter. So while dark energy continues expanding the space between galaxies apart, gravitational pull between the galaxies, along with the effect of Higgs particles slowing the movement of matter, you are essentially playing "bumper pool with magnetic balls". While the force of the cue ball striking another ball will move the ball away from the cue ball will move the ball away from the cue ball in the direction of the force applied to it, in much the way you describe, the bumpers (Higgs particles), and other magnetic pool balls (gravity of galaxies), change the trajectory of the ball that was struck causing it to collide with other galaxies, but not necessarily reverse direction, although it would technically be possible if everything were lined up perfectly.

But I do agree with you that there are still a lot of holes in the theories, but it's still the best explanation of evidence I have seen. Can you cite a link to the theory that you believe?
 
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`mud

Just old
Premium Member
hey Nash,
I said: "lack of any "pull" exibited by the "void" ", leaving the assumed "gravity" to do all the work.
Somehow, "gravity" wasn't strong enough to keep the substance down on the farm, grazing with the cows and other entities.
~
What the hell evades people about what a "void" is, it is "nothingness", nothing more, even your silly invented particles of some "nothingness".
You can call them "Higgs pieces" or wave forms, or whatever you want, but nothing is in a "void" except nothingness,
and certainly no pull, nothing there to give any "pull", or get it, or save it, or to enertialize it, no momentum in the nothingness nothing.
Get out of that empty box, theres nothing in there.
There was never any "nothingness", it never exsisted. From infinity to.....................
~
If there wasn't any "center" of the "singularity", what held it in place, nestled so tightly that all the "substance" couldn't move ?
It had to be some form of "gravity" wouldn't it ? Where did the "friction" come, to heat all that non moving "substance" ?
How "hot" was it, no motion...no friction...no heat...agreed ? But no...you won't agree...has to be heat, doesn't there ?
If there was no "explosion" and something in the center decided to "inflate", apparantly from the center, why did the irritated "substance" not move everything outward in a given non focused way, away from the direction of the center of it all. Or was the "inflation" lopsided as to cause the inflation to cause the "substance" to head off in a more directional focus to one side over the other side, did you get that, are you thinking of the possibilities ?
Anyway, all the enertia came the sudden inflation, if(a big IF), it happened, all the kinetic motion of the "substance" would be the providing enertia to "push" the "substances" from the "center", or from some lop sided position, but would provide all the "substances" with momentum, the first and only momentum the "substances" would ever receive, unless something else would occur, changes in direction from the causal source of the so called "singularity".
There was never a single inflation, no Big Bang, no "singularity"........maybe trillions of them, and into infinity.....................
~
Statements refering to Higgs, or other surrounding "substances", and anything being in the void...well, wouldn't that make the "void" the "non-void", Higgs and stuff and all. Makes no sense, I asked questions for answers, only three that mattered, but there were no understandable answers.
There can't be anything in a "void" or it wouldn't be a "void", there's no pull because there's nothing there. Gravity, or the lack of enough, is the causal source of any inflation of any substance, except for condensation, because of mostly lowering of itenerate pressures, but...there weren't any, but were there?
~
This could go on and on, especially when one considers the increase in inflationary increases in all the "substances" screaming outward away from the causal souce of all the energy expounded to the original "substances", the explanation of the change in direction from Nash is quite entertaining.
The change in direction if from randomicity and decay of "substances" in the Cosmos, and the movement outward through the infinite travel to the end of all, like most people think, but the Cosmos is random, but somewhat relative by some sorts.
~
But...........my theory: "Total Randomicity throughout the Cosmos and it's neighbors, their there, all of them."
I can't uderstand the billions of collisions between all the different "substances", going in every conseivable direction.
Randomisity personified, without mirrors and hot smoke, just the Cosmos at it's best, from no singularity.
Where is it going ? I don't know...given a couple of years we will all know...to infinity I guess.
~
There's not ever been a single Big Bang, there's been trillions of them, further apart than we can possibly surmise.
And........to infinity......................................forgive my (sic's), need a nap :beach:
~
nuff stuff,
'mud
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
WOW...another one that won't even come close to the truth.
~
From the total lack of substance in a totally void of nothingness was contained a miniscule amount of everything that ever existed in the Cosmos.
I will take back some of that, there couldn't have been a Cosmos before that time, it didn't exist, just like time, and gravity, and space.
A little old priest, named Georges Lemaître, had a silly dream one night about Moses' writings about Adam and Eve and the creation and thought up the idea of the big bang.
Everything from nothing caused by this entity called the creator, or God if you will, fitting it all in the book of the Old Testament, BANG!!
Ah yes....genisis...what a book...and following that...Paul...and on and on...
~
The short of it, it never happened, there wasn't any "void", there wasn't any microscopic infinite "gravity", there wasn't any "singularity",
there wasn't any "container" to encapsulate the plasma, and so on and so on.
~
This is some more of the crap that is spread around in the world to make the theists happy with the fact that they are going to die sometime.
Good luck with that belief, you will be just a memory some time, just like everyone else will, if you live a good life and do well to others.
Other than that, you will turn to dust and vapors like the rest of us, there isn't any cognizance after death.
~
Wow......that was a terrible rant wasn't it....sorry about that....where's my meds !
~
'mud

I believe you said a lot of nothing about nothing.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Please explain how it's a "bust".
I believe the theory is based upon the dispersion of stellar elements and how they appear to react to one another. I believe it is like the sonic boom which one hears long after the jet has passed and one can only conjure up the concept of a jet because it is already gone so one can't really tell you whether it was an F15 or an F16. There is evidence that stellar element appear to be moving away from one another but we can only speculate why that is. I think it is a relational problem, ie that we are not seeing the big picture and have to relate from our vantage point in space and time.
 

Izdaari

Emergent Anglo-Catholic
I don't believe in the Big Bang in the sense of having faith in it, but yes, I think it did most probably happen, and was part of God's creation process.
 
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