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The Birth of Christ..."What really happened?"

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
this is true but a mistake ..... We would run out of room if people keep having baby's .
the space on earth is only so big ...... Talking about colonizing other plants is silly . :)

The one that created the procreative powers can remove the creative part of the powers when the time came. Remember this would be when we are no longer living as independent tenants of the planet, but as family. What we are promised is that we would have "exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." - Ps 37:11. That would not be possible if the earth was overfilled.
 

mainliner

no one can de-borg my fact's ...NO-ONE!!
The one that created the procreative powers can remove the creative part of the powers when the time came. Remember this would be when we are no longer living as independent tenants of the planet, but as family. What we are promised is that we would have "exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." - Ps 37:11. That would not be possible if the earth was overfilled.
true ........ So.god might be chopping my nuts off ?
 

mainliner

no one can de-borg my fact's ...NO-ONE!!
more realistically he may make the egg wall too thick for any sperm to fertilize.

Condoms are definitely not a fail-safe method of birth control
it would be easier to create a condom tree ...... Made of flexible titanium :)
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
""""God designed humans to be mortals living on a magnificent planet forever with everything supplied to ensure that their lives would be awesome""""

this is true but a mistake ..... We would run out of room if people keep having baby's .
the space on earth is only so big ...... Talking about colonizing other plants is silly . :)

If you believe in a Creator who had a purpose in bringing a vast material universe into existence, then understanding even a small part of that purpose, we can see why there is no limit to what he may achieve in the future. Who can place limits on such a powerful being?

God already has millions of spirit sons in heaven who were not humans in another life. There was no reason to take humans to heaven when he originally intended them to live in paradise conditions on earth forever. God provided all the means for that to take place, but he didn't create robots. Part of being made in God's image is the ability to make choices. To contemplate the outcome of our actions, communicate our thoughts verbally and in writing, and plan for the future, like God does. This sets us apart from other creatures.

The other thing that sets us apart is worship.....only humans have a need to worship a higher power. This is inbuilt in us, evident in all cultures, but missing in the animal kingdom.

Animals operate mainly by instinct which does not need conscious decisions to be made or deliberate planing for the future. Other creatures live in the "now". Any propensity to make provision for the future is instinctive, not the result of an awareness of future need. Even death, that overtakes all creatures, is not something that animals can contemplate. They have a "flight or fight" instinct, but no real concept of their own death. Even predatory animals do not see other creatures as anything but food.

life is just one big mistake and nobody is to blame ........ The worlds not big enough to for humans to live forever ..... It will get over crowded which it is allready .
"Blame"??? How about giving credit for the miracle of life? o_O

The design of living things requires a designer and a source of materials to bring a design into existence. Science is only scratching the surface in their investigation into the designs in nature.

For example....think of all the individual components used in a computer.
It isn't an accident that each component needs to be cleverly designed....then the components need to be assembled in the correct order and even then, when you have a fully assembled finished product, it is completely useless without a power source.
It needs another completely well designed power supply and a means to deliver it.....THEN we need another completely separate and ingeniously designed system to connect to the Internet. All needed intelligent design and all need to interact to give us the working model we often take for granted. Don't we also take our own life and the unseen and unconscious workings of our body for granted? :oops:

Do we have any idea of the odds against us as individuals even being here? We need to appreciate our life and use it to the full, understanding why it's not perfect at present, but why we have an expectation that it should be. :(


i think its Japan who have put a restriction on how many children people can have due to overcrowding.
I think you mean China.

if the Eden was perfect from the start you would have a billion monkeys ( us) running round wild procreating and having many many baby's ........ You cant stop wild animals having sex . Imo :)

If you consider all the parts of this planet that are at present uninhabitable, the Bible indicates that in God's original purpose, no part of the earth was to remain inhospitable to human life. The mandate given to Adam and his wife was not only to populate the earth, but to "subdue" it. I believe this is an under-appreciated aspect of God's original purpose. God gave humans a 'blueprint' in the garden of Eden and told them to "subdue" the rest of the earth...the whole planet was not made into a paradise for them, but they were to work to turn the rest of the planet into a global paradise.

theres only one destination for the life and humans ...... And that's heaven wether its been written or not.

Many people confuse their desire to live in paradise with a desire to go to heaven. The first paradise was here on earth. This is the paradise we have been designed to live in....forever. The only reason that God chose a small number of humans to go to heaven is to assist Jesus Christ to rule faithful humans on earth, bringing back Edenic conditions as God first intended. No human is designed to live in heaven.
 

mainliner

no one can de-borg my fact's ...NO-ONE!!
If you believe in a Creator who had a purpose in bringing a vast material universe into existence, then understanding even a small part of that purpose, we can see why there is no limit to what he may achieve in the future. Who can place limits on such a powerful being?

God already has millions of spirit sons in heaven who were not humans in another life. There was no reason to take humans to heaven when he originally intended them to live in paradise conditions on earth forever. God provided all the means for that to take place, but he didn't create robots. Part of being made in God's image is the ability to make choices. To contemplate the outcome of our actions, communicate our thoughts verbally and in writing, and plan for the future, like God does. This sets us apart from other creatures.

The other thing that sets us apart is worship.....only humans have a need to worship a higher power. This is inbuilt in us, evident in all cultures, but missing in the animal kingdom.

Animals operate mainly by instinct which does not need conscious decisions to be made or deliberate planing for the future. Other creatures live in the "now". Any propensity to make provision for the future is instinctive, not the result of an awareness of future need. Even death, that overtakes all creatures, is not something that animals can contemplate. They have a "flight or fight" instinct, but no real concept of their own death. Even predatory animals do not see other creatures as anything but food.


"Blame"??? How about giving credit for the miracle of life? o_O

The design of living things requires a designer and a source of materials to bring a design into existence. Science is only scratching the surface in their investigation into the designs in nature.

For example....think of all the individual components used in a computer.
It isn't an accident that each component needs to be cleverly designed....then the components need to be assembled in the correct order and even then, when you have a fully assembled finished product, it is completely useless without a power source.
It needs another completely well designed power supply and a means to deliver it.....THEN we need another completely separate and ingeniously designed system to connect to the Internet. All needed intelligent design and all need to interact to give us the working model we often take for granted. Don't we also take our own life and the unseen and unconscious workings of our body for granted? :oops:

Do we have any idea of the odds against us as individuals even being here? We need to appreciate our life and use it to the full, understanding why it's not perfect at present, but why we have an expectation that it should be. :(



I think you mean China.



If you consider all the parts of this planet that are at present uninhabitable, the Bible indicates that in God's original purpose, no part of the earth was to remain inhospitable to human life. The mandate given to Adam and his wife was not only to populate the earth, but to "subdue" it. I believe this is an under-appreciated aspect of God's original purpose. God gave humans a 'blueprint' in the garden of Eden and told them to "subdue" the rest of the earth...the whole planet was not made into a paradise for them, but they were to work to turn the rest of the planet into a global paradise.



Many people confuse their desire to live in paradise with a desire to go to heaven. The first paradise was here on earth. This is the paradise we have been designed to live in....forever. The only reason that God chose a small number of humans to go to heaven is to assist Jesus Christ to rule faithful humans on earth, bringing back Edenic conditions as God first intended. No human is designed to live in heaven.
id like answer you but iv no idea what your talking about ... Sorry .

blame ???? You twisted my words
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
id like answer you but iv no idea what your talking about ... Sorry .

It was never part of God's original purpose to take any human to heaven.
Before the fall of man there was no need for any human to go to heaven for any reason. Humans were designed for everlasting life on earth.

blame ???? You twisted my words

You said no one is to "blame" for us being here. Was that a mistake on your part? Do you "blame" someone for a miracle?
 

mainliner

no one can de-borg my fact's ...NO-ONE!!
It was never part of God's original purpose to take any human to heaven.
Before the fall of man there was no need for any human to go to heaven for any reason. Humans were designed for everlasting life on earth.



You said no one is to "blame" for us being here. Was that a mistake on your part? Do you "blame" someone for a miracle?
gods world hasn't turn out as he/she wanted.......no ones to blame .

it is what it is




""""It was never part of God's original purpose to take any human to heaven. """

god doesn't take anyone to heaven ..... We go when we die

he/she has no control of these matters , If he/she could ....... We'd all be there now .



i think you seem to have a Santa clause belief in god ......... You said god took spirits to heaven who was not human on earth...... Don't be silly :)
don't believe what's written ........ Even if you believe there gods words ( which they arnt)
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
gods world hasn't turn out as he/she wanted.......no ones to blame .

it is what it is
If you honestly believe that this is what God planned at the outset and that he has no control over the outcome, then any wonder you have no belief in him. o_O

""""It was never part of God's original purpose to take any human to heaven. """

god doesn't take anyone to heaven ..... We go when we die

I don't believe there is a conscious part of us to go anywhere when we die. Where do you get this idea? The Bible does not teach about an immortal soul. It teaches that death is the opposite to life. Dead mean dead. "You surely will not die" was the devil's lie.

he/she has no control of these matters , If he/she could ....... We'd all be there now .
This is where you display a complete lack of understanding of God's original purpose and the timeframe in which he operates.

i think you seem to have a Santa clause belief in god ......... You said god took spirits to heaven who was not human on earth...... Don't be silly :)
don't believe what's written ........ Even if you believe there gods words ( which they arnt)

Could I please ask that you reply to what I write rather than what you think I said?

Please read my post again and see that you did not respond to what I wrote here. Comprehension requires an understanding of the written statement. You exhibit little understanding. Sorry :oops:

I understand that you have your own beliefs, but my beliefs are all based on the written word of God. You don't believe that so why expect any consensus?

I don't believe that we are free to invent our own religion, yet God gives us the choice so that we demonstrate who we are and where our loyalties are focused.

We will all account to our Creator whether we believe in him or not. Pretending he's not there, doesn't make him go away.
 

mainliner

no one can de-borg my fact's ...NO-ONE!!
I


This is where you display a complete lack of understanding of God's original purpose and the timeframe in which he operates.


:) ok jayjay ...... Before we choke each other to death :)


this will explain THE TRUTH ....... Scientific truth :)

enjoy my friend:)
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
:) ok jayjay ...... Before we choke each other to death :)


this will explain THE TRUTH ....... Scientific truth :)

enjoy my friend:)

I did enjoy that, thank you. :)

I have no background in quantum mechanics or physics however, so I cannot verify any of that information....but it sounds reasonable. :D

Is this what you believe then?

It a bit hard to tell. :p
 

mainliner

no one can de-borg my fact's ...NO-ONE!!
jayjay

do u understand what your god has actully created now ...... these arnt beliefs jayjay there quantum machanic facts .


if you understand this i recommend youtubeing " the two slit experiment"
it will explain the true creation of light:)

let me know your views
 

mainliner

no one can de-borg my fact's ...NO-ONE!!
I did enjoy that, thank you. :)

I have no background in quantum mechanics or physics however, so I cannot verify any of that information....but it sounds reasonable. :D

Is this what you believe then?

It a bit hard to tell. :p
theres nothing to believe anymore .... these are facts

i dont think u understood it ?
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Quantum Mechanics is nothing new to me. However I do disagree with the video's take on Genesis 1:3. This can as easily be harmonized with Genesis 1:1 by setting the point of view to what things appeared like from the surface of the planet Earth. The cloud cover was too think for light to come thru. And on another day it diffused enough for the shapes of the sun and moon and stars gradually came into view.

What we do know is that all matter is organized energy. And when we get to examine things so very small we can never look at things objectively because the observer automatically becomes part of the experiment. You can determine mass/or relative weight, but not direction. Or you can determine direction, but not mass. One test will show light to be particles, another will show it to be a string following a wave-like pattern.

The laws are so complex that man is still groping to find the equation that defines all the laws of physics in one go.(Theory of Everything). I used to explore this topic back in the 1980's and expect I will return to it eventually. Likely - post Armageddon. Meanwhile it would just absorb all my time and other things would suffer.

The detailed order of all things is convincing proof in a designer. And the Bible is a miracle in condensation of information we need to build the faith that we need and the transmission of God's standards to the point where we can again have his favor. I find that true science complements true scriptural understanding - but it does not replace it.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
jayjay

do u understand what your god has actully created now ...... these arnt beliefs jayjay there quantum machanic facts .

OK...is he "my" God or "yours" too? I'm a bit confused.

if you understand this i recommend youtubeing " the two slit experiment"
it will explain the true creation of light:)

let me know your views

Another interesting video. :)

I have no problem understanding God's creation of light or his power to split particles or whatever else God may do to confound our present understanding. What I do have a problem with, is people placing human limitations on a Creator who made and applies the laws of physics in the first place. The more science comes to know...the more it is demonstrated that there is still way more to learn.

In Gen 1:1 it simply says, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth". This is suggesting that the heavenly bodies that provide light came into existence by the command and creative power of a being we cannot (and probably will not ever be able to) fathom. How he created light and what properties it has is fascinating stuff....but what does it have to do with God's purpose? He did not go to all the trouble of creating a vast universe in order for his creation to eternally wonder about how he did it. That is a bit like evolutionists exploring deeply into how life has changed and adapted over time but never coming to understand how it began. What is the point? Whilst some are off on a wild goose chase, other are lining up for a ticket to life...concentrating on the more important stuff.

Ecclesiastes 3:11 says: “Everything [God] has made pretty in its time. Even time indefinite he has put in their heart, that mankind may never find out the work that the true God has made from the start to the finish.”

Soon, the natural human desire to live to “time indefinite,” (or forever) will be completely satisfied; we will be able to try to ‘find out the work God has made from the start to the finish' without our present limitations.

The whole earth will be our classroom, Jehovah will be our Teacher, and life will be a thrilling, unending voyage of discovery. Then and only then will we completely understand what God has done. Most of us don't have the brain capacity to go there just yet. :p
 

mainliner

no one can de-borg my fact's ...NO-ONE!!
Quantum Mechanics is nothing new to me. However I do disagree with the video's take on Genesis 1:3. This can as easily be harmonized with Genesis 1:1 by setting the point of view to what things appeared like from the surface of the planet Earth. The cloud cover was too think for light to come thru. And on another day it diffused enough for the shapes of the sun and moon and stars gradually came into view.

What we do know is that all matter is organized energy. And when we get to examine things so very small we can never look at things objectively because the observer automatically becomes part of the experiment. You can determine mass/or relative weight, but not direction. Or you can determine direction, but not mass. One test will show light to be particles, another will show it to be a string following a wave-like pattern.

The laws are so complex that man is still groping to find the equation that defines all the laws of physics in one go.(Theory of Everything). I used to explore this topic back in the 1980's and expect I will return to it eventually. Likely - post Armageddon. Meanwhile it would just absorb all my time and other things would suffer.

The detailed order of all things is convincing proof in a designer. And the Bible is a miracle in condensation of information we need to build the faith that we need and the transmission of God's standards to the point where we can again have his favor. I find that true science complements true scriptural understanding - but it does not replace it.
i dont understand
why have gone so deep into a simple explaination about light ?


you said something about clouds etc etc ...... god is the light and everthing is made up of this "stuff" .... even the clouds
 

mainliner

no one can de-borg my fact's ...NO-ONE!!
what was god before he became flesh ?
OK...is he "my" God or "yours" too? I'm a bit confused.



Another interesting video. :)

I have no problem understanding God's creation of light or his power to split particles or whatever else God may do to confound our present understanding. What I do have a problem with, is people placing human limitations on a Creator who made and applies the laws of physics in the first place. The more science comes to know...the more it is demonstrated that there is still way more to learn.

In Gen 1:1 it simply says, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth". This is suggesting that the heavenly bodies that provide light came into existence by the command and creative power of a being we cannot (and probably will not ever be able to) fathom. How he created light and what properties it has is fascinating stuff....but what does it have to do with God's purpose? He did not go to all the trouble of creating a vast universe in order for his creation to eternally wonder about how he did it. That is a bit like evolutionists exploring deeply into how life has changed and adapted over time but never coming to understand how it began. What is the point? Whilst some are off on a wild goose chase, other are lining up for a ticket to life...concentrating on the more important stuff.

Ecclesiastes 3:11 says: “Everything [God] has made pretty in its time. Even time indefinite he has put in their heart, that mankind may never find out the work that the true God has made from the start to the finish.”

Soon, the natural human desire to live to “time indefinite,” (or forever) will be completely satisfied; we will be able to try to ‘find out the work God has made from the start to the finish' without our present limitations.

The whole earth will be our classroom, Jehovah will be our Teacher, and life will be a thrilling, unending voyage of discovery. Then and only then will we completely understand what God has done. Most of us don't have the brain capacity to go there just yet. :p
 
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