THE BLIND MEN AND THE ELEPHANT, revisited

[usfan]

THE BLIND MEN AND THE ELEPHANT
John Godfrey Saxe

IT was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me!—but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried: "Ho!—what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 't is mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out his eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he;
"'T is clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

So, oft in theologic wars
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

This is a wonderful poem, imo, that only needs a slight update in the current religious climate.

There were actually 7 blind men, not 6. His perceptions were left out, by Mr. Saxe, but that was just a cultural oversight, i am sure. I will add the 7th man, to make the poem more contemporary and relevant.

The last, extending empty hands,
Disdainfully, he hissed,
'You fools!', said he, 'it's obvious,
Your brains are in a twist!
This fiction of an elephant, does not even exist!'

 

[shunyadragon]

Including your 7th human still demonstrates the problem that our view, logic and conclusions concerning the existence and nature of God remains highly anecdotal and subjective. es the 7th human presents an alternative view of what is fundamentally objectively unknown from the human perspective.

 

[usfan]

It is a slightly self deprecating bit of humor, for philosophers who take themselves too seriously.

I should have mentioned the era it was written in.. John Godfrey Saxe lived from 1816-1887.

I thought including the atheist perspective would make it more contemporary, as they were still in hiding, in the 1800s..

and yes, we only have our own limited perspective, and fool ourselves into thinking we have 'arrived!' at understanding of the vast mysteries of the universe.

 

[pearl]

The theme reminds me of another elephant story;
The Elephant and the Rat
An elephant was enjoying a leisurely dip in a jungle pool when a rat came up to the pool and insisted that the elephant get out.
"I won't," said the elephant.
"I insist you get out this minute."
said the rat.
"Why?"
"I shall tell you that only after you are out of the pool."
"Then I won't get out."
But he finally lumbered out of the pool, stood in front of the rat, and said,
"Now then, why did you want me to get out of the pool?"
"To check if you were wearing my swimming trunks," said the rat.

An elephant will sooner fit into the trunks of a rat than God will fit into our notions of Him.
deMello

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

THE BLIND MEN AND THE ELEPHANT
John Godfrey Saxe

IT was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me!—but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried: "Ho!—what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 't is mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out his eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he;
"'T is clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

So, oft in theologic wars
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

This is a wonderful poem, imo, that only needs a slight update in the current religious climate.

There were actually 7 blind men, not 6. His perceptions were left out, by Mr. Saxe, but that was just a cultural oversight, i am sure. I will add the 7th man, to make the poem more contemporary and relevant.

The last, extending empty hands,
Disdainfully, he hissed,
'You fools!', said he, 'it's obvious,
Your brains are in a twist!
This fiction of an elephant, does not even exist!'

If you want to make the story a more apt allegory of the difference between the believer and the unbeliever, the six believers don't actually touch the elephant (let's change the elephant to a Kraken), which would be actual physical evidence of the presence of something real, but rather, intuit telepathically what an elephant is. The seventh comes along and listens to the disparate accounts of the six people making claims about an elephant (or Kraken), and says show me your evidence. I don't care what you believe, only what you know and can demonstrate.

 

[usfan]

If you want to make the story a more apt allegory of the difference between the believer and the unbeliever, the six believers don't actually touch the elephant (let's change the elephant to a Kraken), which would be actual physical evidence of the presence of something real, but rather, intuit telepathically what an elephant is. The seventh comes along and listens to the disparate accounts of the six people making claims about an elephant (or Kraken), and says show me your evidence. I don't care what you believe, only what you know and can demonstrate.

..make up your own poem, if you don't like this one.. 'unbelievers vs believers!', is not the allegory, here, but human perceptions of God.

Or were you just hissing your disdain for the other's perceptions?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

..make up your own poem, if you don't like this one.. 'unbelievers vs believers!', is not the allegory, here, but human perceptions of God.

Or were you just hissing your disdain for the other's perceptions?

The point was that the poem's analogy of elephant to God is completely botched. You can't "touch" God - can't run your fingers over Him - can't evaluate ANY part, let alone disparate/separate parts (plural). You get NO information unless you imagine that you do (or experience what is ONLY AS GOOD AS imagining - since you can't demonstrate it to anyone else in the slightest), and so, substituting "God" in for the elephant, what you end up with are 6 blind men groping around describing what they are necessarily only imagining they feel. The 7th blind man walks in and says: "What are you guys talking about? I don't feel anything." And then HE'S the one who is called crazy by the other 6. It's the freaking weirdest thing, let me tell you.

 

[sun rise]

This is one of my all time favorites because it is 100% accurate when it comes to theology. All religions have a view of the divine and to me they are all limited. To be sure, for some people at some times aligning oneself with a specific theology is helpful. But it's like training wheels. Sooner or later it's time to search for the Source.

 

[Twilight Hue]

THE BLIND MEN AND THE ELEPHANT
John Godfrey Saxe

IT was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me!—but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried: "Ho!—what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 't is mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out his eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he;
"'T is clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

So, oft in theologic wars
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

This is a wonderful poem, imo, that only needs a slight update in the current religious climate.

There were actually 7 blind men, not 6. His perceptions were left out, by Mr. Saxe, but that was just a cultural oversight, i am sure. I will add the 7th man, to make the poem more contemporary and relevant.

The last, extending empty hands,
Disdainfully, he hissed,
'You fools!', said he, 'it's obvious,
Your brains are in a twist!
This fiction of an elephant, does not even exist!'

So I take it nobody seen an elephant before.

 

[atanu]

So I take it nobody seen an elephant before.

The story is about blind men— they have surely not seen an elephant, which represents the reality. Many consider this parable to be an alternate expression of Rig Vedic saying: "Reality is one, the wise speak of it variously."

 

[Twilight Hue]

The story is about blind men— they have surely not seen an elephant, which represents the reality.

Then how would they know for sure if it was an elephant?

 

[atanu]

Then how would they know for sure if it was an elephant?

They won’t on their own. They were told of an animal called elephant.

A group of blind men heard that a strange animal, called an elephant, had been brought to the town, but none of them were aware of its shape and form. Out of curiosity, they said: "We must inspect and know it by touch, of which we are capable". So, they sought it out, and when they found it they groped about it. In the case of the first person, whose hand landed on the trunk, said "This being is like a thick snake". For another one whose hand reached its ear, it seemed like a kind of fan. As for another person, whose hand was upon its leg, said, the elephant is a pillar like a tree-trunk. The blind man who placed his hand upon its side said the elephant, "is a wall". Another who felt its tail, described it as a rope. The last felt its tusk, stating the elephant is that which is hard, smooth and like a spear.

 

[Twilight Hue]

They won’t on their own. They were told of an animal called elephant.

Guess you need something objective then in order to touch it .

God isn't objective.

 

[atanu]

Guess you need something objective then in order to touch it .

God isn't objective.

It is not about God per se. Furthermore, a parable is a parable.

 

[Quintessence]

Needs more than a slight update considering the story ignores the reality of diversity - namely, that there is more than one proverbial elephant.

 

[atanu]

Needs more than a slight update considering the story ignores the reality of diversity - namely, that there is more than one proverbial elephant.

This story is especially used by Jainas to illustrate their ‘anekantavAda’

 

[shunyadragon]

So I take it nobody seen an elephant before.

Yes, as far as the story goes.

 

[shunyadragon]

The point was that the poem's analogy of elephant to God is completely botched. You can't "touch" God - can't run your fingers over Him - can't evaluate ANY part, let alone disparate/separate parts (plural). You get NO information unless you imagine that you do (or experience what is ONLY AS GOOD AS imagining - since you can't demonstrate it to anyone else in the slightest), and so, substituting "God" in for the elephant, what you end up with are 7 blind men groping around describing what they are necessarily only imagining they feel. The 7th blind man walks in and says: "What are you guys talking about? I don't feel anything." And then HE'S the one who is called crazy by the other 6. It's the freaking weirdest thing, let me tell you.

You missed it as analogy.

 

[Darkforbid]

THE BLIND MEN AND THE ELEPHANT
John Godfrey Saxe

IT was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me!—but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried: "Ho!—what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 't is mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out his eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he;
"'T is clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

So, oft in theologic wars
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

This is a wonderful poem, imo, that only needs a slight update in the current religious climate.

There were actually 7 blind men, not 6. His perceptions were left out, by Mr. Saxe, but that was just a cultural oversight, i am sure. I will add the 7th man, to make the poem more contemporary and relevant.

The last, extending empty hands,
Disdainfully, he hissed,
'You fools!', said he, 'it's obvious,
Your brains are in a twist!
This fiction of an elephant, does not even exist!'

Do they have Blind Men Elephant Feeling Day Trips in Indostanland? People will be looking at the Sun, all day long! Just to get a seat I bet that why they put in the extra seat. I'm not sure I approve though!

 

[Father Heathen]

An elephant will sooner fit into the trunks of a rat than God will fit into our notions of Him.
deMello

Yet this is what religion and scripture, including yours, attempts to do.