The BNP (British National Party)

[Alceste]

I'm relating issues within England to here in Australia with my own opinions. The English part of my family have the same concerns as the rest of my family wherever they live in the world. In all honesty, my cousins are drop-kicks passing school because daddy has his chequebook ready. They don't deserve a job. In saying that, im sure many fully qualified English people (of any background) could become disgruntled when someone who's been in England for 2 years and can't speak English gets a job in front of them. Do you get what im trying to say? Is it fair to say this issue extends past the BNP? Its not like its only hard for white people to get a job. Perhaps non-white people may be reluctant to open their mouths because they can be easily percieved as immigrants as well?

I'll say it now, im sorry for disliking the open-door policy my country and England holds in terms of immigration. Perhaps i should go put my white pointy hat on and go lynch some non-white people

OK, well, I do think you're a racist. There, it's out. But, I think anybody who believes there is any such thing as "race" is a racist. So it's not the kind of hysterical insult you imagine it to be. To me, it's like people who believe in a deity are theists. People who believe in race are racists. From my perspective, there is no such thing as race. The very concept that there could be any such thing springs from xenophobia - an irrational fear of people who are different. Xenophobia is an unavoidable evolutionary trait. What we do with it when we find it within ourselves is what determines whether or not we are racists. If it makes us think there is a "them" and an "us", it has had a detrimental effect. I'm not saying you're going to go out lynching. But you are (in my view) missing out on the fun of being fascinated and enthralled by the incredible diversity of human cultures in the world. Living next to somebody from China doesn't make you any less of a "white person", whatever you think that means.

Have you ever really sat down and thought about why wages might be dropping? I'm sure you heard the phrase "correlation is not causation". You've seen some "non-white people" (whatever you think those are), and you've seen a drop in wages, so you conclude "non-white people" make wages drop. That's like sitting on a purple beach towel and getting a sunburn, concluding that purple beach towels make your skin peel off. What I'm saying is you need some more steps in between if you want to turn that into a rational argument. Do "white people" still take those jobs at lower wages? Yes? Well then you can't blame immigrants, can you.

 

[Alceste]

BTW, having immigrated to the UK myself within the last 6 years, I can say for a fact it is not an "open-door policy". If the UK doesn't want Eastern Europeans in the country, they should excuse themselves from the EU. The same policy that allows migrant workers from Poland to come to the UK allows British people to live elsewhere in Europe.

 

[darkendless]

BTW, having immigrated to the UK myself within the last 6 years, I can say for a fact it is not an "open-door policy". If the UK doesn't want Eastern Europeans in the country, they should excuse themselves from the EU. The same policy that allows migrant workers from Poland to come to the UK allows British people to live elsewhere in Europe.

I think the last person this country stopped from entering was Stephen W from Ireland

In certain area's here its a case of "why the hell did they let you through customs."

 

[Alceste]

I think the last person this country stopped from entering was Stephen W from Ireland

In certain area's here its a case of "why the hell did they let you through customs."

Heh - I have a friend who they gave a hard time to because they asked if he had a criminal record and he said "Why, do you still need one?"

 

[darkendless]

OK, well, I do think you're a racist. There, it's out. But, I think anybody who believes there is any such thing as "race" is a racist. So it's not the kind of hysterical insult you imagine it to be. To me, it's like people who believe in a deity are theists. People who believe in race are racists. From my perspective, there is no such thing as race. The very concept that there could be any such thing springs from xenophobia - an irrational fear of people who are different. Xenophobia is an unavoidable evolutionary trait. What we do with it when we find it within ourselves is what determines whether or not we are racists. If it makes us think there is a "them" and an "us", it has had a detrimental effect. I'm not saying you're going to go out lynching. But you are (in my view) missing out on the fun of being fascinated and enthralled by the incredible diversity of human cultures in the world. Living next to somebody from China doesn't make you any less of a "white person", whatever you think that means.

Have you ever really sat down and thought about why wages might be dropping? I'm sure you heard the phrase "correlation is not causation". You've seen some "non-white people" (whatever you think those are), and you've seen a drop in wages, so you conclude "non-white people" make wages drop. That's like sitting on a purple beach towel and getting a sunburn, concluding that purple beach towels make your skin peel off. What I'm saying is you need some more steps in between if you want to turn that into a rational argument. Do "white people" still take those jobs at lower wages? Yes? Well then you can't blame immigrants, can you.

In engineering economics dominate, just like everything else. When a tender is placed a company will do what it can to slim down its proposal. That means shedding a few expensive Australian trained graduates in favour of some foreigners who will work for a lot less. It does happen. Fulton Hogan got in trouble for doing it last year because they fired 3 UQ (university of Queensland) graduates and replaced them with 8 Indian kids who couldn't speak english.
I can't say i blame them but it does cheapen the 4 years of our lives spent in a classroom, and the hundreds of hours we spend on site standing in a hole without getting paid. Whats even funnier is the government complaining when 4/5ths of the Australian engineers end up going overseas. The simple solution is to get companies hiring locals and giving jobs on competence, not on the price tag attached.

Maybe its an Australian thing, because this is a common arguement. I'm basically reproducing a discussion we had in a construction engineering (a subject) lecture last week over work. I think about 4 out of 120 students disagreed with the notion that companies should take local applications first before looking elsewhere.

This way it shuts up the racists like me, keeps the local unemployment rate very low, and saves companies from recruiting internationally.

 

[Alceste]

In engineering economics dominate, just like everything else. When a tender is placed a company will do what it can to slim down its proposal. That means shedding a few expensive Australian trained graduates in favour of some foreigners who will work for a lot less. It does happen. Fulton Hogan got in trouble for doing it last year because they fired 3 UQ (university of Queensland) graduates and replaced them with 8 Indian kids who couldn't speak english.
I can't say i blame them but it does cheapen the 4 years of our lives spent in a classroom, and the hundreds of hours we spend on site standing in a hole without getting paid. Whats even funnier is the government complaining when 4/5ths of the Australian engineers end up going overseas. The simple solution is to get companies hiring locals and giving jobs on competence, not on the price tag attached.

Maybe its an Australian thing, because this is a common arguement. I'm basically reproducing a discussion we had in a construction engineering (a subject) lecture last week over work. I think about 4 out of 120 students disagreed with the notion that companies should take local applications first before looking elsewhere.

This way it shuts up the racists like me, keeps the local unemployment rate very low, and saves companies from recruiting internationally.

Well there are a couple more steps in there, and that helps. But you're saying 4 out of 5 Australian engineers end up going overseas. So I'm confused. It's right for Australian engineers to move to another country to get better paying work, but wrong for Indian engineers to move to Australia to get better paying work?

This is free trade in action. It's "white", rich, Western, English-speaking business people who came up with it. If you don't like it, they're to blame.

BTW, you have said "can't speak English" a few times as if it means something. Did you know that other languages can be learned? I know! It's crazy! I speak three of them! I started out not speaking them, and then after a few years in Quebec, and a few years dating a Guatemalan, POW! There I am speaking French and Spanish. You should try it some time. It's a gas.

 

[misanthropic_clown]

I think the growing popularity of the BNP has much more to it than racism. Though perhaps I am biased given that I know my parents have voted for the BNP, and whilst I would concede that my dad in particular holds some quesionably racist views he is far from the 'scum' that people generally associate with the BNP. He is a thoroughly decent man, in fact.

I personally think the entire problem lies with the behaviour of mainstream parties. I find that typically, we vote for the party that has screwed up the least rather than having any serious positive reason to vote for one party or another. The idealism in mainstream politics has died, and so I don't really consider it surprising that when a party with an actual sense of identity (though vile) and a clear and radical set of policy proposals (though naive and unworkable) comes along it gets peoples' attention.

But perhaps I am a little jaded. I'm 20, and I have actually yet to exercise my right to vote exactly because I have had no positive inclination towards any party. I think it is a dire state of affairs that the only reason I would be interested in voting is if we could introduce an anti-vote system so that I could help prevent the BNP and like parties from making any progress.

 

[darkendless]

Well there are a couple more steps in there, and that helps. But you're saying 4 out of 5 Australian engineers end up going overseas. So I'm confused. It's right for Australian engineers to move to another country to get better paying work, but wrong for Indian engineers to move to Australia to get better paying work?

This is free trade in action. It's "white", rich, Western, English-speaking business people who came up with it. If you don't like it, they're to blame.

BTW, you have said "can't speak English" a few times as if it means something. Did you know that other languages can be learned? I know! It's crazy! I speak three of them! I started out not speaking them, and then after a few years in Quebec, and a few years dating a Guatemalan, POW! There I am speaking French and Spanish. You should try it some time. It's a gas.

I'm saying we wouldn't need to go overseas if there were jobs for us here. At the moment there's a trade off. Sadly, its young kids in Europe, the UAE and China losing out to the evil Australians like me who come and steal their jobs because someone else took ours. England is no different, they recruit from Australia and New Zealand. It strikes me as strange considering England has one of the best engineering universities in the world.

Social normality in Aussie, if you can't speak english you're at a disadvantage because no one will go out of their way to try and understand you. Its not like Europe where everyone speaks a second language. I remember when i visited Germany my German wasn't up to scratch so they just spoke in english. I tried my best to converse in German but they just laughed and started speaking english. Great people the germans. We Aussies are too lazy to try and understand any other language than our own. For the record though im semi-fluent in German and Norwegian.

 

[rojse]

Heard about this in Aussie. Doesn't suprise me at all. Given the nature of the last few years do you expect anything else from a white population having their country swarmed with immigrants who don't speak ******* english. From what i have seen reported here, the party is disgusted by immigration laws and to a strict extent i agree.

If the same thing happened here i'd vote for them. Im not a white supremist per se, but im not a fan of immigration based on the problems we have in my country from immigrants. Im sure Britian is no different.

You do know that all Australians not of aboriginal descent are the sons of immigrants, do you not, Darkendless?

But I do agree that people coming to any country should be able to speak at least one of the country's official languages.

 

[rojse]

Haha im sure you guys have enough convicts to deal with as it is

I must admit good old England came up with a nice scheme - send all the convicts over to Australia.

 

[darkendless]

You do know that all Australians not of aboriginal descent are the sons of immigrants, do you not, Darkendless?

But I do agree that people coming to any country should be able to speak at least one of the country's official languages.

Of course lol.

Look at the problems in Western Sydney because of the latest wave of immigration. Turning what used to be a relatively peaceful outer-suburb area into gang-warfare. I was at a mates the other day and his mum was having a rant about how shes ashamed to have grown up in west Sydney only to see every ethnicity on the planet wage war in the streets.

 

[Alceste]

I'm saying we wouldn't need to go overseas if there were jobs for us here. At the moment there's a trade off. Sadly, its young kids in Europe, the UAE and China losing out to the evil Australians like me who come and steal their jobs because someone else took ours. England is no different, they recruit from Australia and New Zealand. It strikes me as strange considering England has one of the best engineering universities in the world.

Yeah, the point I was making, was that you don't have to go "steal" Chinese jobs any more than Indians have to come "steal" Australian jobs. Everybody just goes where they want to go, based on the perception the grass is greener there.

Don't worry about the Chinese people whose jobs you guys steal, btw. They all end up in Canada. As to what happened to the British engineers, if I had to guess I'd say they probably went to Texas.

Social normality in Aussie, if you can't speak english you're at a disadvantage because no one will go out of their way to try and understand you. Its not like Europe where everyone speaks a second language. I remember when i visited Germany my German wasn't up to scratch so they just spoke in english. I tried my best to converse in German but they just laughed and started speaking english. Great people the germans. We Aussies are too lazy to try and understand any other language than our own. For the record though im semi-fluent in German and Norwegian.

I know what you're saying, but that was the main motive to learn. When I moved to Quebec I got both. Ordinary people laughed and switched to English, and I was at a disadvantage when it came to dealing with the government and finding work, because bilingualism is the norm in the workplace and the government is made up of a bunch of French separatist ******** who are hostile to English speakers by default. This only motivated me to learn. I'm assuming you picked up your German in Germany too. So you should know better than to say that people who can't speak English (yet) shouldn't live in English-speaking countries. How else are they supposed to learn it?

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Racism can potentially be seen as maintaining the integrity of the nation. I don't say i agree, but remember this. As an outsider, when we see stories about something on England, 9 times out of 10 there aren't any white people in the footage. Most of them are here , 1 in every 3 customers i serve at work are English (its great, i love chatting about football) To someone like myself who doesn't pay a great deal of attention to how England runs, it seems as though the white superiority is dying. I may be completely wrong, but its just a feeling i get.



My family is upper middleclass. When Spurs have home matches they don't get wet I'm fairly sure my family doesn't support the BNP, but they do agree on some issues, much like myself. As parents they're concerned there won't be any jobs for my cousins when they finish university unless they work on a slave wage. Their concerns are reasonable and mirrored across the western world.

For the record i'm not defending the party per se, im defending aspects of their mentality that i agree with because the same thing's they're standing up for in England are happening across the world, and no one is standing up for it.



Thats easily fixed. If these people don't like it, don't immigrate to England. Its the same here, except we havn't got the equivalent of the BNP (YET).

The award wage drops when these people come. Here we have problems with Indians and Asians doing the same thing. A structural engineer used to get paid and average of $54,000 as a graduate. In 6 years, that has dropped to $45,000. When you look at the statistics compiled by my university, the amount of students graduating from Australian universities is the same, those from (mainly, but not only) Asian or Indian universities is growing. I guess you could blame the employer, but then they'd be called a racist for employing only Australian kids as opposed to the best person for the job.

Now, would this annoy you? If this happens in Engineering, medicine, biochemistry and in professions requiring degrees, you could bet your house it happens throughout the workforce.
Although my field has been somewhat affected, i'll get a comfortable wage when i graduate regardless. However, for people earning a smaller wage, say $30,000, wouldn't people comming over and making your job cheaper annoy the hell out of you?

Me and the quote system don't go together. I will answer in order of your writing...

If racism is what holds the integrity of a nation, then that is a weak nation. England is not a weak nation, though it seems its strength of multi-culturism is going down the drain. While I may not agree with million coming in through the gates every day, I don't think these white masters have the right to treat them like ****. Every human is equal. White superiority is slowly dying, and thanks heavens for that.

I am sure your cousins will be able to get good, high playing jobs in their field, no doubt about it. If they work hard they will get what they want. My cousin had little trouble getting a high-paying job coming out of a crappy uni. He hunted and got what he wanted. Seems to me like there are jobs out there, the locals are too busy blaming us for taking 'em! I think it is just that the locals are SO lazy. I always see people in need of work, offices, small businesses.

I don't see how someone as intelligent as yourself can defend the likes of the BNP. I am surprised, but not that much.

Can you really blame people coming for a poor country hoping for a better life? It is not their fault they have ambitions! Don't go around attacking them! If you want change then you protest till you get change. It is not fair to attack them and blame them for problems.

I suppose i would be annoyed. But i would not blame those Indians. I would blame the governement for not controlling the situation. THey need to keep the borders tight.

BNP? Vote Green!

 

[darkendless]

Me and the quote system don't go together. I will answer in order of your writing...

If racism is what holds the integrity of a nation, then that is a weak nation. England is not a weak nation, though it seems its strength of multi-culturism is going down the drain. While I may not agree with million coming in through the gates every day, I don't think these white masters have the right to treat them like ****. Every human is equal. White superiority is slowly dying, and thanks heavens for that.

I am sure your cousins will be able to get good, high playing jobs in their field, no doubt about it. If they work hard they will get what they want. My cousin had little trouble getting a high-paying job coming out of a crappy uni. He hunted and got what he wanted. Seems to me like there are jobs out there, the locals are too busy blaming us for taking 'em! I think it is just that the locals are SO lazy. I always see people in need of work, offices, small businesses.

I don't see how someone as intelligent as yourself can defend the likes of the BNP. I am surprised, but not that much.

Can you really blame people coming for a poor country hoping for a better life? It is not their fault they have ambitions! Don't go around attacking them! If you want change then you protest till you get change. It is not fair to attack them and blame them for problems.

I suppose i would be annoyed. But i would not blame those Indians. I would blame the governement for not controlling the situation. THey need to keep the borders tight.

BNP? Vote Green!

Read about 4 posts down on the previous page, i don't blame the people i blame the government policies. I don't blame them for wanting to come here, but it does annoy the heck out of me when 20 of them come into work, and none of them speak a word of english. I sure as hell don't speak whatever language they speak (in India i know there are a lot).

Like i keep saying i don't support the BNP, i don't know enough about them to intelligently say, "i support the BNP," but from what i've read, i agree with some of their principles.

My cousins are lazy. Just like most of Australia. We complain a lot more than the while english people don't you worry. A lot of people here think that if the minorities buggered off back where they came from, we wouldn't have to spend ages trying to get a job. I've never had problems, but then again, im not a spark plug who has to get a new job every 6 weeks.

 

[Shahzad]

BNP latest, "Sink immigrant boats at sea."

The EU should sink boats carrying illegal immigrants to prevent them entering Europe, British National Party leader Nick Griffin has told the BBC.


The MEP for the North-West of England said the EU had to get "very tough" with migrants from sub-Saharan Africa.


Pressed on what should happen to those on board, he said: "Throw them a life raft and they can go back to Libya".

BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Sink immigrants' boats - Griffin

I'd like to dump him in the middle of the Atlantic and throw him a life jacket, a lead one.

 

[Enlighten]

British National Party members have been accused of being ashamed of themselves after their leader told them to hide their support for the controversial group.

In an email to members and supporters, party chairman Nick Griffintold them to "try and avoid" owning up to being BNP supporters when writing to complain about the treatment of two activists.

BNP Leader Tells Members To 'Avoid Owning Up' To Supporting Controversial Party | Politics | Sky News

And so they should be ashamed!!

 

[Ukonkivi]

I enjoy a lot of things that make me look racist. But that's just because the Nazis and White Nationalists love to use Euro-Pagan imagery and Pagan bands love to use Nazi imagery. I'm more of an insensitive than a racialist. Really, I could never be anywhere close to a racialist, I'd easier be just some racist. Because I can never accept an ideology that says race mixing is NEVER okay. Or that a country should always stay ONE race.

However, it's not like I have a knee jerk reaction to Nazism, White Nationalism, and everything slightly resembling them. The BNP has it's good and it's bad. The positive of the BNP, is it's one of the most Socialist groups in the UK. The downside is, they're also probably the single most Authoritarian. If I were British, I'd be voting the REAL socialist group, the one more socialist and less Authoritarian Green Party, whom I would classify Libertarian Left, where I stand.

I don't think holocaust denial should be illegal. I don't think white nationalism should be illegal. I don't even think hate speech itself should be illegal. I'm way too libertarian to hold such viewpoints. But that doesn't mean I necessarily like it.

I'm honestly kind of alienized by the white nationalism/nazism/racialism versus antifa polarization thing. I could again, never be a white nationalist or a racialist, but it's not like I just want to turn to the other side. Nazi uniforms are cool. Nazi imagery is cool. I don't mind listening to Nazi punk bands when they sing about Paganism. Such as in songs like Walvater Wotan and Odin statt Jesus by Nazi punk bands. And NSBM. The list goes on, but there's a lot of fun to be be found in this so called "racist" taboo stuff. In fact, the taboo itself is also part of the fun.

And should I really hate the BNP that much? They're not much better than the Labour Party from my perspective. Who cares if they're racist? It's politics that matter to me. What I see is a group that holds my economic beliefs better than most places in the UK, but extremely wrong for me on the Libertarian and Authoritarian scale.

Btw, all this isn't to say that I'm not a racist, I don't know what all of a racist I can be considered, nor do I especially care. I'm just saying I can never conform to the tenets of racialism.

 

[England my lionheart]

I watched Question time tonight,Nick Griffin the leader of BNP was on the Panel ,the BBC should be applauded for having him on the program as he and his party were exposed for what they are so any fears that the BNP are growing in strength should after tonight be dispelled.

 

[kai]

I watched it England and Griffin is an idiot he has too many skeletons in his closet to be taken seriously. but the questions that the three main parties avoid are still being asked by a lot of people which is why the BNP are still around. Its the timidness in addressing Multiculturalism and immigration fears that has given the BNP momentum.

 

[England my lionheart]

I watched it England and Griffin is an idiot he has too many skeletons in his closet to be taken seriously. but the questions that the three main parties avoid are still being asked by a lot of people which is why the BNP are still around. Its the timidness in addressing Multiculturalism and immigration fears that has given the BNP momentum.

I totally agree Kai ,these questions should have been addressed years ago and the BNP are the result of succesive Governments failure to tackle these fears.