The Book of Enoch

[Humanistheart]

It's interesting that the designation "Sons of God" in Job 1:6, 2:1, and 38:7 all refer to angels...so why in Genesis 6:2 is the same word used to refer to earthly men. That word is bene Elohim and is never used for humans.

..

I read the passages you posted. I don't see anything in them to identify the sons of god as angels. This would appear to be an assumption, but I could have just missed it. Would you mind providing a quote for the verses in which it is revealed that what we call angels and the sons of god are one and the same? I don't disagree with the assumption mind you, it seems probable, I just didn't see any conclusive proof for the claim.

There were some questions addressed to me on this thread, I apologize for getting to them so slowly, my internets been down all week, and I'm out of quarters to feed the meter at the library, lol. But I will respond to them as soon as I can.

 

[S-word]

S Word, can you ellaborate on your statment here? What is your bases for the assumption that the egyptions had access to Enoch and how does Imhotep factor in here?


Sorry that I’ve taken so long to respond to your question, but because of work commitments my time on the computer is limited.

I believe I explained in one of my previous posts, the bases for my belief that the Egyptians had access to the Books of Enoch, as to my belief that Enoch and Imhotep are one and the same, I will say here that Imhotep was born somewhere around 2980 B.C.

Having looked at 34 Chronologists which include men such as Africanus, Eusebius, Maestlinus, and Salianus etc, who have calculated the amount of Years from the Christian era to the time that Adam was cast down to the earth and clothed with animal skin, flesh, nerves and hair etc, I believe that only three come up with same result, which was 4004 B.C., the others range from 5501 B.C., to 3836 B.C. Take your pick which one you choose to believe.

But knowing that the Jewish Era (J.E.) puts the destruction of the first temple at 3338 years after the appearance of Adam on earth, where as the modern belief is that It was destroyed by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar in 586 B. C.... By adding the two together, we come to 3924 B.C. as the year of Adam’s appearance and he died at the age of 930, in the year of 2994 B.C. which is 14 years before the supposed birth of Imhotep in 2980 B.C.

Enoch was born 642 years after Adams appearance on earth and the 365 year period of Enoch’s first physical stint on earth before he was taken to heaven and was translated from a physical being to a light being when he was stripped of his earthly garment and anointed with the sweet smelling ointment of God which shone with the brilliance of the sun, was between 3182 and 2817 B.C.

Concerning the “Watchers/Observers” who had left the high heavens and had defiled themselves with the daughters of man and had called on the righteous Enoch to intercede with the Lord on their behalf, it is written in ‘The Book of Enoch the Prophet’ 12: 1; “Before these things Enoch was hidden, and no one of the children of men knew where he was hidden, and where he abode, and what had become of him. And his activities had to do with the “Watchers/Observers,’ and his days were with the holy ones.

In the Book of Jubilees 4: 16-24, concerning Enoch the son of Jared and Baraka his niece, who was the daughter of jared’s brother Basuial, it is written that he Enoch (Imhotep?) whose glorious heavenly body of light was frozen to matter and returned to earth, was the first among men Who are born on the earth who learned writing and knowledge and wisdom, and that he wrote down all the signs of the heavens, the courses of the moon and the sun and the stars, the years, months, weeks, Sabbaths, the days and hours etc. And he wrote down all that was and what will be, as he had seen in a vision, all that will happen to the children of men throughout their generations until the Day of Judgment; he saw and understood everything, and wrote his testimony, and placed the testimony on earth for all the children of men and their generations.

Because of the ambiguousness of the ancient dates and times and the fact that my time limit has expired, I will have to return later.

 

[Humanistheart]

S Word, can you ellaborate on your statment here? What is your bases for the assumption that the egyptions had access to Enoch and how does Imhotep factor in here?


Sorry that I’ve taken so long to respond to your question, but because of work commitments my time on the computer is limited.

I believe I explained in one of my previous posts, the bases for my belief that the Egyptians had access to the Books of Enoch, as to my belief that Enoch and Imhotep are one and the same, I will say here that Imhotep was born somewhere around 2980 B.C.

Having looked at 34 Chronologists which include men such as Africanus, Eusebius, Maestlinus, and Salianus etc, who have calculated the amount of Years from the Christian era to the time that Adam was cast down to the earth and clothed with animal skin, flesh, nerves and hair etc, I believe that only three come up with same result, which was 4004 B.C., the others range from 5501 B.C., to 3836 B.C. Take your pick which one you choose to believe.

But knowing that the Jewish Era (J.E.) puts the destruction of the first temple at 3338 years after the appearance of Adam on earth, where as the modern belief is that It was destroyed by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar in 586 B. C.... By adding the two together, we come to 3924 B.C. as the year of Adam’s appearance and he died at the age of 930, in the year of 2994 B.C. which is 14 years before the supposed birth of Imhotep in 2980 B.C.

Enoch was born 642 years after Adams appearance on earth and the 365 year period of Enoch’s first physical stint on earth before he was taken to heaven and was translated from a physical being to a light being when he was stripped of his earthly garment and anointed with the sweet smelling ointment of God which shone with the brilliance of the sun, was between 3182 and 2817 B.C.

Concerning the “Watchers/Observers” who had left the high heavens and had defiled themselves with the daughters of man and had called on the righteous Enoch to intercede with the Lord on their behalf, it is written in ‘The Book of Enoch the Prophet’ 12: 1; “Before these things Enoch was hidden, and no one of the children of men knew where he was hidden, and where he abode, and what had become of him. And his activities had to do with the “Watchers/Observers,’ and his days were with the holy ones.

In the Book of Jubilees 4: 16-24, concerning Enoch the son of Jared and Baraka his niece, who was the daughter of jared’s brother Basuial, it is written that he Enoch (Imhotep?) whose glorious heavenly body of light was frozen to matter and returned to earth, was the first among men Who are born on the earth who learned writing and knowledge and wisdom, and that he wrote down all the signs of the heavens, the courses of the moon and the sun and the stars, the years, months, weeks, Sabbaths, the days and hours etc. And he wrote down all that was and what will be, as he had seen in a vision, all that will happen to the children of men throughout their generations until the Day of Judgment; he saw and understood everything, and wrote his testimony, and placed the testimony on earth for all the children of men and their generations.

Because of the ambiguousness of the ancient dates and times and the fact that my time limit has expired, I will have to return later.

S word, that's some very interesting dating, and I commend you on the effort. But the contents of enoch are said to discuss things that happened pre-noah, and even if they're true, was not written down until aproximatley 300-100 bce, most likely in the 2nd century bce. The ancient egyptians did not have enoch.
Furthermore, adam never lived. The jewish people, who's ancestors wrote the books of the bible, only see the creation stories as ancient midrash's, spiritual truth but not empiracle or historical truth. So no dating system involving adam can be said to be correct.
But thank you for the allaboration. I had to ask for it as your previous post was not articulated well enough to understand. Thanks again

 

[Green Kepi]

I read the passages you posted. I don't see anything in them to identify the sons of god as angels. This would appear to be an assumption, but I could have just missed it. Would you mind providing a quote for the verses in which it is revealed that what we call angels and the sons of god are one and the same? I don't disagree with the assumption mind you, it seems probable, I just didn't see any conclusive proof for the claim.

The Hebrew word 'bene elohim' refers to angels. That's what I was using (sorry - I should have mentioned the King James Version says). In some modern versions, angels are used. All I was saying, in the KJV, other places its angels...in Genesis 6 its sons of God. But...I really don't care much for the KJV. I think from these Nephilim (Rephaim/Emin) this is where mythology go its start. Old writings in the 9th century 'Hiwi al-balkhi' state the Nephilim were the builders of the Tower of Babel.

But...so much we don't know...the Bible states that only Noah and his family surrived the flood...but then in Numbers 13:33 - we have the Nephilim around again. I can't figure that one out! Maybe there was a 2nd eruption of fallen angels...the 1st group were destroyed in the flood.

Whatever they were, I think this is what likely caused the second flood. And yes, I believe the earth is very old. God destroyed it the first time with water/ice...but the earth survived...it was under the waters. That why it was formless and empty. The first one was not like Noah's flood - this first one was total, complete, nothing or no one survived. Were our English versions read, "In the beginning", the Hebrew reads, "In a beginning"...to me, this means the earth was here before the 1st day of creation. That's another reason, Genesis 1:28 - states, "...replenish" the earth (means make again).

 

[S-word]

S word, that's some very interesting dating, and I commend you on the effort.

By S-word: Well thank you there HHeart, how nice of you.

quote=Humanistheart; But the contents of enoch are said to discuss things that happened pre-noah,

By S-word: Well fancy that! I thought I had been telling you that from the first post in this thread, seeing that Enoch’s first period of physical life on earthwas between 3182 and 2817 B.C. and Noah wasn’t born until 69 years after the translation of Enoch and the flood didn’t occur until 600 years after that.

And yes, some of what Enoch wrote, was about the events that occurred before the flood, but as I have already pointed out, it is said In the Book of Jubilees 4: 16-24, concerning Enoch the son of Jared and Baraka his niece, who was the daughter of Jared’s brother Basuial, that he Enoch (Imhotep?) whose glorious heavenly body of light was frozen to matter and returned to earth, was the first among men Who are born on the earth who learned writing and knowledge and wisdom, and that he wrote down all the signs of the heavens, the courses of the moon and the sun and the stars, the years, months, weeks, Sabbaths, the days and hours etc. And he wrote down all that was and what will be, as he had seen in a vision, all that will happen to the children of men throughout their generations until the Day of Judgment; he saw and understood everything, and wrote his testimony, and placed the testimony on earth for all the children of men and their generations.


quote=Humanistheart; and even if they're true, was not written down until aproximatley 300-100 bce, most likely in the 2nd century bce. The ancient egyptians did not have enoch.

By S-word: No my friend, the oldest still existing documents of Enoch were copies that were done in the third century before Christ, from other copies that were in danger of disintegration, and the Egyptian did have access to the original writings of righteous Enoch.

quote=Humanistheart; Furthermore, adam never lived. The jewish people, who's ancestors wrote the books of the bible, only see the creation stories as ancient midrash's, spiritual truth but not empiracle or historical truth. So no dating system involving adam can be said to be correct.

By S-word: Being an atheist, as you claim, we could expect nothing less than, that you should deny the existence of Adam. But unless you believe in divine creation, you cannot deny that somewhere in time there had to have been the first man to arise from the animal kingdom, who, unlike the animals that preceded him, which lived according to their instincts or the ever evolving ancestral spirit that dwells within the inner most sanctuary of their being: the first human that had evolved from the animals, rather than follow the ancestral spirit within the inner dimension, decided to go it alone and judge for themselves that which was the right or wrong thing to do, and thus became separate from the eternal evolving singularity.

There is an invisible world that co-exists within the physical world, for the kingdom of God is within you. All that exists in this world is made up of molecules that are no more than a gathering of animated atoms, which in turn are only sub-atomic particles that have been gathered together to be perceived as atoms, and those sub-atomic particles are not particles at all, but waves. A Cosmic cloud of shimmering dancing swirling patterns of invisible waves, and that which is you is but one miniature conglomeration of invisible waves in the eternal evolving Cosmic cloud that is the mind that is God which has evolved from all past eternity and will continue to evolve for all eternity to come as it cannot do otherwise. Show to me a mind that has ceased to evolve and I will show to you a mind that is dead and has ceased to exist. And please don't try to tell us that mind capable of comprehending mind has not evolved.


quote=Humanistheart; But thank you for the allaboration elaboration. I had to ask for it as your previous post was not articulated well enough to understand. Thanks again [/quote]

By S-word: If you were incapable of comprehending my previous posts, then you will drown in the depths of what has been written here, listen to this secret, "We shall not all fall asleep in death, but there are those who at the sound of the last trumpet, will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, from bodies of corruptible matter into glorious bodies of incorruptible light," as did the body of Enoch, whose living spirit, in the bodies of Noah, his wife, their three sons and their wives who were all the descendants of the six sons of Enoch who is the living evolving ancestral spirit in the bodies of all who are descended from Noah.

Enoch, is the 365 day old unblemished sacrificial lamb of God, and Jesus was the first fruits of his resurrection, the first of many brothers who are to be redeemed from this age of man which is to be destroyed by fire. For it was not Jesus who was torn asunder and poured out as fire on all those who believed the words of Enoch our Father who dwells behind the veil to the innermost sanctuary of our beings, whose words were heard from the mouth of his faithful servant Jesus who spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by our father and saviour Enoch, who rose Jesus from death and is able to raise we who are united to Jesus also.

Acts 17: 31, "For He has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death."

And as the risen body of Jesus was turned to that brilliant blinding body of light that appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus, and was heard to say, “I am Jesus of Nazareth,” so shall those who are selected as the required number of Jews and Gentiles who will take the thrones that have been prepared for them and rule the Lords Day, the Sabbath of one thousand years, before fire descends from heaven and incinerates all upon the earth.

‘The Book of Enoch the Prophet,’ XXXVII: 4, “Till the present day such wisdom has never been given by the Lord of Spirits as I have received according to my insight, according to the good pleasure of the Lord of Spirits by whom the lot of eternal life has been given to me.” This is verified in genesis 5: 23, and Hebrews 11: 5.

Enoch the Prophet who, at the age of 365 was carried to heaven and stripped of his earthly garment and anointed with the sweet smelling ointment of God that shone with the brilliance of the sun and behold he was as one with the glorious ones, “Christ”...’The anointed one.’

From The Book of Enoch the Prophet, chapter 108: 2; And now I will summons the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of the Light and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who in the flesh, were not recompensed with such honour as their faithfulness deserved. And I will bring forth in shining light those who have loved my Holy Name (Who I Am) and I will seat each one on the throne of his honour. And they shall be resplendent for times without number.” Good bye HHeart.

 

[S-word]

This is the first of two posts By S-word.

quote=Humanistheart;1608530]I read the passages you posted. I don't see anything in them to identify the sons of god as angels. This would appear to be an assumption, but I could have just missed it. Would you mind providing a quote for the verses in which it is revealed that what we call angels and the sons of god are one and the same? I don't disagree with the assumption mind you, it seems probable, I just didn't see any conclusive proof for the claim.

By S-word:2 Peter 2: 4; in reference to the Angels who descended in the days of Jared, which name means “Descending,” “For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment, and Jude 1: 6; “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness until the judgment of the great day.” From where do you suppose Peter and Jude received this information that the angels were chained in darkness, nowhere is this stated in the Old Testament?

Quote...Green Kepi: The Hebrew word 'bene elohim' refers to angels. That's what I was using (sorry - I should have mentioned the King James Version says). In some modern versions, angels are used. All I was saying, in the KJV, other places its angels...in Genesis 6 its sons of God. But...I really don't care much for the KJV. I think from these Nephilim (Rephaim/Emin) this is where mythology go its start. Old writings in the 9th century 'Hiwi al-balkhi' state the Nephilim were the builders of the Tower of Babel.

But...so much we don't know...the Bible states that only Noah and his family surrived the flood...but then in Numbers 13:33 - we have the Nephilim around again. I can't figure that one out! Maybe there was a 2nd eruption of fallen angels...the 1st group were destroyed in the flood.

By S-word: If, as you have stated, you are a Christian, then shouldn’t you believe by faith that the words recorded in the bible were inspired by God and If the Nephilim (Giants) were in the earth after the flood, and the Bible states that only Noah and his family survived the flood, then it is obvious that they had to have came from the genetics of the giant Noah, whom His physical father Lamech, believed was sired by an angel or a Son of God. Reuben in his last Testament to his children states that it was while the men were with their wives that the angels were able to pass on their issue.

From the ‘Book of Enoch the Prophet’ CVI: 1-6, “Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech, and she became pregnant by him and bore a son (and Lamech was the physical Father to Noah the giant) And his body was as white as snow and as red as the blooming of a rose, and the hair on his head and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes beautiful. And when he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house like the sun, and the whole house was very bright. And thereupon he arose in the hands of the midwife, opened his mouth, and conversed with the Lord of righteousness. And his father Lamech was afraid of him, (Just as Eve was terrified when she first saw Cain the shinning one and thought to kill him) and Lamech fled and ran to his father Methuselah. And he said to him: “I have begotten a strange son, diverse from and unlike man, and resembling the sons of the God of heaven; and his nature is different, and he is not like us, and his eyes are as the rays of the sun, and his countenance is glorious. And it seems that he is not sprung from me, but from the angels. And I fear that in his days, a wonder may be wrought on the earth.


quote=Green Kepi; Whatever they were, I think this is what likely caused the second flood. And yes, I believe the earth is very old. God destroyed it the first time with water/ice...


By S-word:There was once a world wherein one massive continent, which was surrounded by water, was broken up into seven tectonic plates. The Jurassic age in which the 3 million odd year rule of the old upright walking reptile, “The Great Dinosaurs,” was brought to its finish by what is thought to have been a cataclysmic comet collision with the earth some 145 million years ago when the super continent of Pangaea began to break up, separating the continental tectonic plates and the overall sea level began to rise, which ushered in the cretaceous period which came to its close about 65 million years ago.

During the period of the cretaceous age, the sea levels were about 80 feet or 25 metres above current levels, and this was before the Tertiary period which closed about 2 million years ago, during which period all the mountain ranges such as the Himalayan mountains etc, were formed from the collision of the continental Tectonic plates, and apart from a few high land masses that were pushed up by earth’s internal pressures, those few small areas of land protruding above the surface of the seemingly endless ocean would have been insignificant.

The otherwise reasonably flat mountain less surfaces of the drifting continents, would have been under water, which is something that must be considered in view of the fact that in scripture we are dealing with a very, very condensed record of earth’s history. The only animals to survive would have been some birds, insects and small mammals, “the ancestors of human beings,” who were able to exist on small floating islands of debris until they could adapt to the watery environment and one day crawl out onto one of the few land islands that could sustain life.

The Biblical flood that occurred some 4 thousand years ago was simply representative of the much earlier flood that covered the entire earth and wiped out all land animals which could not return to and adapt to the watery world of the long cretaceous period.

 

[S-word]

Continued from post 26, by S-word.

Quote...Green Kepi: but the earth survived...it was under the waters. That why it was formless and empty. The first one was not like Noah's flood - this first one was total, complete, nothing or no one survived. Were our English versions read, "In the beginning", the Hebrew reads, "In a beginning"...to me, this means the earth was here before the 1st day of creation. That's another reason, Genesis 1:28 - states, "...replenish" the earth (means make again).


By S-word: Genesis 1:2; ‘The earth was without form, (having no shape) and void, (Having no mass) should be translated, “The earth had become formless and void Etc.” The Hebrew word “havah” translated “was,” means “To become, occur, Come to pass, Be” (Vine’s complete Expository Dictionary of the Old and New Testament Words, 1985, “To Be”.)


The elements of this universe as with the countless universal bodies that preceded this one will, as revealed by Enoch, one day burn up and fall as massive columns of fire beyond all measure in height and depth into the great abyss or Black Hole, which is the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven. The 13 and half billion years that this universal body has been in existence, is but the blink of an eye relative to the eternal past that lies behind us.


When this universal body is once more condensed into the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, Infinitesimally small primordial atom from which it originated, and the earth has again become formless and void, there it will remain in the great gravitational seemingly bottomless pit, absorbing the expended energy of other universal cells within the eternal evolving Cosmic body until the day it will burst forth and be resurrected to continue in its eternal evolution or growth.


The nights and days of Brahman are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. ‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that precedes the next creative day. The 6 days of creation as revealed in Genesis, are the 6 generations of this universe which evolved from lesser heavenly bodies. Genesis 2: 4; concerning the six days of creation "These are the generations of the universe." The Hebrew word "Toledoth" translated here as "Generations" means "Descendants," such as, 'These are the generations of Adam,' or 'These are the generations of Abraham,' etc.


Origen, who was well versed in the writings of Enoch, was a Christian writer and teacher who lived between the years of 185 and 254 AD. Among his many works is the Hexapla, which is his interpretation of the Old Testament texts. Origen holds to a series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.


Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

 

[Humanistheart]

S Word, you ramblings seem to have gotten off topic, at least try to keep them related to the thread.

 

[Humanistheart]

Humanist;



REGARDING WHY GOD WAS ANGRY AT THE FALLEN ANGELS


"I could be wrong, but I don’t believe that the Enoch texts specifically teach that it was wrong for angels having bodies to reproduce sexually simply because they “were immortal”. Adam and Eve initially were “immortal” and sexual relations was the manner by which they were to “fill the earth” (with offspring).
Clear
eisetwou

"And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die 5 and perish. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget 6 children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. But you were formerly 7 spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling."

Men were created to reproduce, but it would appear in the book of enoch angels were not.

 

[Humanistheart]

Humanist Heart

If S-Word is correct that my simple point was lost in sheer size of my post

nevitr

I wouldn't worry about that, he never is. And he's a complete hypocrite saying your post is too long when all he does is leave long nonsencecal ramblings.

 

[S-word]

I wouldn't worry about that, he never is. And he's an complete hypocrite

By S-word: "This should be A complete hypocrite"

saying your post is too long when all he does is leave long nonsencecal ramblings

By S-word: That should be nonsensical mate.

By S-word: Goodbye again HHeart, I hope someday you may learn what the great scientific mind of Enoch has to say about the coming great Sabbath.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Hi all, this is extraordinarily revealing thread, frubals deserved all round.

So much to understand, and life is so short, but it is my understanding that the esoteric nature of such entities as the Nephilim and the context in which they relate to the concept of reality as conveyed in the bible is the prerequisite 'key' to understand the 'truth' that by natural divine constraints must forever be beyond the mere mortal mind's comprehension.

Hope you all find it reassuring to know that the underlying theme of the Book of Enoch, regardless of the personal differences of present understanding, is not dissimilar to the other extant scripture of non-judaic scripture.

 

[S-word]

Hi all, this is extraordinarily revealing thread, frubals deserved all round.

So much to understand, and life is so short, but it is my understanding that the esoteric nature of such entities as the Nephilim and the context in which they relate to the concept of reality as conveyed in the bible is the prerequisite 'key' to understand the 'truth' that by natural divine constraints must forever be beyond the mere mortal mind's comprehension.

Hope you all find it reassuring to know that the underlying theme of the Book of Enoch, regardless of the personal differences of present understanding, is not dissimilar to the other extant scripture of non-judaic scripture.

The only man to have been anointed at the command of God, the only man to be redeemed from the previous world, the only man to be translated from the physical world into the invisible world that co-exists within this one, for the kingdom of God is within you, the only man to have been given the gift of eternal life. The only person from the body of Adam who was ransomed by the blood of righteous Abel, which blood could pay the death penalty for only one man, unlike the death of the anointed one which speaks of much greater things than does the blood of righteous Abel, and it is his death that is the ransom price for the entire body of post flood mankind.

In the new body of mankind which descended from Noah, his wife, their three sons and their wives who were all genetic descendants of Enoch through his six sons Methusulah, Rigam, Riman, Urchan, Cherminion and Giadad, Enoch, the only eternal spirit of Man in his ascent to the end of all things, developed and evolved as the spirits of mankind were gathered to him, to be the first born Son of God, born from the dying body of Mankind. and all children not under the death sentence that was imposed on Adam,are born innocent.

Enoch may have been the cornerstone to which the spirits of man were gathered in the development of the spiritual Son of God within the body of mankind, but the Son of Man was not Enoch,in fact Enoch who was much greater than John the Baptist, was the least in the Kingdom of God, for the Son of Man was the compilation of all mankind, He was born with all the wisdom, knowledge and insight needed by the heir to the throne of the Most High, and that wisdom, knowledge and insight was gained from the sufferings that his body endured which sufferings were caused by the sin and mistakes that we his body had made, and our death, the death of the sinful body in which he developed was the ransom price for the sins of his flesh and only he can descend into his dead past and pay the sacrificial price for the mother body in which he developed: Psalms 51: 5; “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity and in sin did my mother conceive me.”

In his ascent to the ends of all things, within the invisible co-existing world that is inside you me and all of the body of mankind, Enoch wrote 366 books in all, these were written by the use of the physical body in which he was evolving, why should those books be dissimilar?

And no man has ascended to heaven EXCEPT (Enoch) even the Son of man who came down to his own, and his own received him not. But to as many as receive him, to them does he give the right to become the Sons of God. Enoch, the 365 day old unblemished sacrificial lamb of God: and Jesus was the first fruits of his resurrection, for it was not Jesus who was torn asunder and poured out as fire on all those who believed the words of Enoch our Father who dwells behind the veil to the innermost sanctuary of our beings, whose words were heard from the mouth of his faithful servant Jesus who spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by our father and saviour, who rose Jesus from death and is able to raise we who are united to Jesus also.

Acts 17: 31; “For He has fixed a day (The Sabbath of one thousand years from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that day at the age of 930.) in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death.”

And as the risen body of Jesus was translated to that brilliant blinding body of light that appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus, and was heard to say, “I am Jesus of Nazareth,” so shall those who are selected as the required number of Jews and Gentiles who will take the thrones that have been prepared for them and rule the Lords Day the Sabbath of one thousand years, before fire descends from heaven and incinerates all upon the earth.
For I tell you a sacred secret said Paul, we shall not all fall asleep in death, but at the sound of the last trumpet the elect and chosen will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye from bodies of corruptible matter, into the glorious bodies of brilliant and blinding light.

From The Book of Enoch the Prophet, chapter 108: 2; And now I will summons the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of the Light and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who in the flesh, were not recompensed with such honour as their faithfulness deserved. And I will bring forth in shining light those who have loved my Holy Name (Who I Am) and I will seat each one on the throne of his honour. And they shall be resplendent for times without number.”

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Thanks S-word for your informative post.

Though have read the Book of Enoch once quite a number of years ago, it was a difficult read for me, though much of it did resonate as representing arcane knowledge lost to this generation. Have read extensively theosophical literature over many years, which draws on the Hindu doctrine of the 7 lokas/talas, and teaches that the physical earth is the densest sphere of a concentric arrangement of 7 which constitute a planetary whole, the others not visible nor detectable to mortal man. Just mention this in passing as it arose in my mind reading your post.

In any event, this thread has been quite stimulating and perhaps sufficiently so to be inclined to pay another visit to the Book of Enoch, thanks.

 

[S-word]

Thanks S-word for your informative post.

Though have read the Book of Enoch once quite a number of years ago, it was a difficult read for me, though much of it did resonate as representing arcane knowledge lost to this generation. Have read extensively theosophical literature over many years, which draws on the Hindu doctrine of the 7 lokas/talas, and teaches that the physical earth is the densest sphere of a concentric arrangement of 7 which constitute a planetary whole, the others not visible nor detectable to mortal man. Just mention this in passing as it arose in my mind reading your post.

In any event, this thread has been quite stimulating and perhaps sufficiently so to be inclined to pay another visit to the Book of Enoch, thanks.

In “The Book of the secrets of Enoch” it’s written that God appointed an eighth day also that it should be the first created after his works, and it’s a day eternal, with neither hours, days, weeks, months, or years, for all time shall be stuck together in one aeon, and the eighth day is the generation of light in which the previous seven generations of the universe revolve.

In reference to the six days of creation and the seventh day of rest which is this period of universal activity that precedes the eighth in which all who are allowed to enter will be surrounded by great light and they shall know peace from their works, it is said in Genesis 2: 4; “These are the generations of the universe.” The word “Generations” used here is translated from the Hebrew word “Toledoth,” which means “descendants,” such as, “These are the generations of Adam”, or these are the generations of Noah, or these are the generations of Abraham, etc.

Being familiar with Hindu literature you will understand that the days of Brahman are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity and that like the “Logos” (Translated Word) who is the divine animating principle which pervades all things within the universe, and the one from whom all things came into existence and to whom all must return, that the root to the word Brahman, originally meant ‘Speech’ and that Brahman is considered to be the essential divine reality of the universe, the invisible and eternal spirit from which all being originates and to which all must return, only to burst forth once again and awaken to another period of universal activity. Neither the “Logos,” (Word) or “Brahman,” (Speech) express, ‘as spoken words,’ all the information that is gathered to them throughout eternity, but that gathered information is expressed in the creation itself.

According to the book of Genesis, the first period of universal activity was only light, massive stars the size of which is unimaginable, when these stars imploded throwing off a percentage of their mass, evening or pralaya came and there was darkness once more. With the second day, the first had to be repeated before the primitive elements could be separated from the expanding nebula that was formed from the novas (In the second period of universal activity) of the first generation stars, and those elements or waters that were separated from the expanding cloud, were gathered together to form condensing clouds from which dry land or planets could be created after which, within the ever condensing clouds, nuclear fusion would begin and our star ‘The Sun’ would be born on the third day in which the previous two days would have been incorporated etc until the eighth day in which the whole seven would revolve eternally.

And it is into the refining fires of physical life within the seven which had become one, that those who are not accepted into the eternal eighth generation universe of light, are cast back, in order that their portion of the eternal life might be given a new heart (Body) and a new spirit (Mind).

By the way, I hope the weather warms up down round your area by the end of next month, as the wife and I are thinking of going down to the 150th Festival at the Jondaryan Woolshed, us bronzed northeners feel the cold more so than you white skinned southeners, dont you know.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Interesting post, it seems that you are familiar with Cosmogenesis and Anthropogenesis volumes of the Secret Doctrine. Your esoteric interpretation of Genesis is interesting and meaningful. Actually downloaded a pdf file Book of Enoch tr by Knibb with additional modern English revisions by Jeremy Kapp (2009), and commentary notes by Andy McCracken.

McCracken suggests that the judgment of the watchers outlined at 14.5, "From now on, you will not ascend into Heaven for all eternity, and it has been decreed that you will be bound on Earth for all the days of eternity.", could mean endless reincarnation , and this IMO seems correct though eternity in this sense probably means until the eighth day.

For in esoteric northern Buddhism, while there is no concept that equates with a place such as an eternal Hell, this Earth, the densest of the 7 spheres is known as Myalba and is the place where spirits continue to migrate to 'suffer in order to learn the lessons appropriate for the function of higher spheres' according to the cosmic manvantara processes of reincarnation and karma. However it is understood that the divine plan ensures that all will eventually transcend the desire for the finite and transient phenomena associated with life's lessons here.

There also is in theosophy a concept of Avitchi, an eighth sphere, which is the antithesis of Heaven. It is my understanding that whatever 'dregs' remaining at the end of a manvantara, will endure through the subsequent pralaya period, and constitute the base primordial matter which will be used in the creation of a new planetary system at the dawn of the first 'day' of this next manvantara/planetary reincarnation.

BTW, it is interesting to note that if one considers the 7 'days' of creation/rest in the context of a planetary Manvantara, then the complementary pralaya is of equal period, that is 7 'days'. Now in theosophy there are 7 globes of this planetary system which include 3 on the involutional or descending side and each increasing in density to the 4th which is the physical Earth, and then 3 on the ascending or evolutionary side each increasing in spiritual fineness. Each of these globes represents one 'day' of the manvantara of 7 'days'. Now since the densest globe is the half-way turning point where involutional forces can't descend any further, then these forces must be reflected and return upwards as evolutionary forces. So at the end of '3 and 1/2 ' days it marks the end of involution and beginning of evolution. And at the end of the next '3 and 1/2' days, which is also marks the end of the 7 days of the manvantara, it time for the beginning of the planetary pralaya.

Now it seems to me that there is a contextual relationship in the '3 and 1/2 years' mentioned in Daniel 12 and in Revelations as to a planetary judgement,..any comments?

 

[Humanistheart]

I hate divert the current discussion, but what exactly do you mean by the above? Do you mean that the book was excluded sometime after the nicene creed but unrelated, or after but because of the creed, or that the council of Nicaea excluded the book?

No worries, the thread's intent has already been divulged from at this point anyway. Looking back it may have been better not to even include a mention of the Nicene creed. However, what I meant was that the book of Enoch was influential in the early christian community, as it is referenced in other biblical cannon such as Jude, then fell out of usage. A common way to mark the term "early Christianity' appears to be between Jesus' death and the 1st council of Nicaea so I was just using it as a marker of time really. Weather or not Nicaea had anything to do with this I can't say, I've never looked into it, although I think I will now. Again, looking back it would have been better to just say influential in early Christianity and left it at that.

 

[S-word]

Cracken suggests that the judgment of the watchers outlined at 14.5, "From now on, you will not ascend into Heaven for all eternity, and it has been decreed that you will be bound on Earth for all the days of eternity.", could mean endless reincarnation , and this IMO seems correct though eternity in this sense probably means until the eighth day.

!5: 10; In reference to the spiritual Sons of God who abandoned their own habitat and came down to earth and defiled themselves with the daughters of man, and the giants that were born of those unions it is said “As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on earth shall be their dwelling.” Then again it is written in 10: 12; concerning the heavenly beings, “When their sons (The giants) have slain one another, and they (The heavenly beings) have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations (Not eternity) in the valleys of the earth til the day of their judgment etc.”

According to the genealogy recorded in Luke 3, Jesus, who was the compilation of all the spirits of good people who had fallen asleep in righteousness and had been gathered to the bosom of Abraham in who was the same indwelling Father spirit that was in Noah, as none of his ancestors had died and been gathered to the indwelling spirit of the post flood body of mankind at the time of his, (Abraham) birth, and Jesus is seventy generations from Enoch. When he ascended up to the very heights to fill the universe with his presence, he took many captives with him and it is said somewhere that there in heaven, day and night without rest they lament, and make supplication and intercede for the children of man until the ends of this world.

Adam is the first son of God, See Luke 3: 38; Seth the second, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalalel, Jared (Descending), then Enoch the seventh descendant of God, 10 completes the cycle and 10+1 is the beginning of the new cycle, Jesus is seventy generations from Enoch the first of the seventh born sons, this make Jesus the eleventh of the seventh born sons from God, and the beginning of the new cycle, he is the second Adam. I have so much to say on this subject, but now is not the time, and this forum is not the place.

 

[Humanistheart]

While this thread has been more enlightening than I'd imagined it would be, other than Green Kepi on the first page we all seemed to have diverged from the original question. Why was Jude kept in many bibles when it uses Enoch, if Enoch was not accepted? It's a cannonicity question.

 

[Quagmire]

***Mod Post***

This thread is in the Christian DIR forum. All non-Christians please limit your comments to respectful questions.
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