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The caliphate between conspiracy and prophecy

The Caliphate a prophecy or a conspiracy

  • I believe the prophecy is fulfilled

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
The prophet had foretold about the events that will take place in the era of end times.

He said that There will be sanctions on Iraq and next on Syria before the caliphate started to take over in the Muslim world, and he described exactly the stages of ruling in the Muslim world after his death.

So if what is happening nowadays is the real caliphate then the prophet's prophecy confirms that his message was a serious and true one otherwise it is a conspiracy from outside the Muslim world in which Nasrallah accused Israel of doing it.

Do you think it is the real caliphate as the prophet prophesied or a conspiracy ?
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
The prophet had foretold about the events that will take place in the era of end times.

He said that There will be sanctions on Iraq and next on Syria before the caliphate started to take over in the Muslim world, and he described exactly the stages of ruling in the Muslim world after his death.

So if what is happening nowadays is the real caliphate then the prophet's prophecy confirms that his message was a serious and true one otherwise it is a conspiracy from outside the Muslim world in which Nasrallah accused Israel of doing it.

Do you think it is the real caliphate as the prophet prophesied or a conspiracy ?
"Iraq" is a modern construct no older than the 1920s. And if my Islamic history isn't failing me, the Caliphate must be led (or is atleast preferably led) by a descendent of Mohammed. This exact same "prophecy" was trotted out during the initial rise of the Ottoman Empire in the 1400s and then again when the British were destroying it while promising Arab Nationalists that they could have everything between the Sinai and Persia, and south of Anatolia if they fought against the Turks.

So I would say it is neither prophecy nor coincidence, because coincidence relies on there being obvious parallels & similarities.
 

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
The prophet had foretold about the events that will take place in the era of end times.

He said that There will be sanctions on Iraq and next on Syria before the caliphate started to take over in the Muslim world, and he described exactly the stages of ruling in the Muslim world after his death.

So if what is happening nowadays is the real caliphate then the prophet's prophecy confirms that his message was a serious and true one otherwise it is a conspiracy from outside the Muslim world in which Nasrallah accused Israel of doing it.

Do you think it is the real caliphate as the prophet prophesied or a conspiracy ?
Well if it were true then that suggest there murders are good and just, does it not?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
The prophet had foretold about the events that will take place in the era of end times.

He said that There will be sanctions on Iraq and next on Syria before the caliphate started to take over in the Muslim world, and he described exactly the stages of ruling in the Muslim world after his death.

So if what is happening nowadays is the real caliphate then the prophet's prophecy confirms that his message was a serious and true one otherwise it is a conspiracy from outside the Muslim world in which Nasrallah accused Israel of doing it.

Do you think it is the real caliphate as the prophet prophesied or a conspiracy ?
Non-Muslims are not really in a position to say, as most of us do not accept that Muhammad was a prophet.
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Does theprophecyof Muhammad inthe Iran-Iraq wartoo??
Does theprophecyof Muhammad inthe Gulf war??
Where can I findthoseprophecies?s
In the Quran?s
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
"Iraq" is a modern construct no older than the 1920s. And if my Islamic history isn't failing me, the Caliphate must be led (or is atleast preferably led) by a descendent of Mohammed. This exact same "prophecy" was trotted out during the initial rise of the Ottoman Empire in the 1400s and then again when the British were destroying it while promising Arab Nationalists that they could have everything between the Sinai and Persia, and south of Anatolia if they fought against the Turks.

So I would say it is neither prophecy nor coincidence, because coincidence relies on there being obvious parallels & similarities.
Iraqis nota modernbuilding
It iscalledMesopotamia
Modern Iraq label and not geographic-spot.
The Gulf warwas nota religious war
It is a warof interestsonly
The Americans provided assistance to Muslims
And did declare war for Christianity
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
"Iraq" is a modern construct no older than the 1920s. And if my Islamic history isn't failing me, the Caliphate must be led (or is atleast preferably led) by a descendent of Mohammed. This exact same "prophecy" was trotted out during the initial rise of the Ottoman Empire in the 1400s and then again when the British were destroying it while promising Arab Nationalists that they could have everything between the Sinai and Persia, and south of Anatolia if they fought against the Turks.

So I would say it is neither prophecy nor coincidence, because coincidence relies on there being obvious parallels & similarities.

Not true, Iraq was known since the 6th century and Syria was known as Al-Sham.

The origin of the name Iraqis disputed. There are several suggested origins for the name. One dates to the Sumerian city of Uruk (or Erech) ; another maintains according to Professor Wilhelm Eilers, The name al-‘Irāq, for all its Arabic appearance, is derived from Middle Persian erāq "lowlands".

Under the Persian Sassanid dynasty, there was a region called "Erak Arabi," referring to the part of the south western region of the Persian Empire that is now part of southern Iraq. The name Al-Iraq was used by the Arabs themselves, from the 6th century, for the land Iraq covers.
http://www.rohama.org/en/content/1010

The prophet has connected the Caliphate with the events in Syria and Iraq

Muslim: Book 41, Number 6961:

Abu Nadra reported: We were in the company of Jabir b. ‘Abdullah that he said:
“It may happen that the people of Iraq may not send their qafiz and dirhams. We said, “Who would be responsible for it?” He said, “The non-Arabs would prevent them.” He again said,
“There is the possibility that the people of Syria may not send their dinar and mudd.” We said, “Who would be responsible for it?” He said, “This prevention would be made by the Romans.” He (Jabir b. Abdullab) kept quiet for a while and then reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) having said: “There would be a caliph in the last (period) of my Ummah who would freely give handfuls of wealth to the people without counting it”. I said to Abu Nadra and Abu al-’Ala, “DO you mean ‘Umar bin ‘Abd al-Aziz?” They said, “No (he would be Mehdi).”

Also the main point is that the prophet got a knowledge that the caliphate at one point of time will end and tyrants will rule the Arab world instead of a just caliphate and then he pointed out that Iraq and Al-sham will be in trouble till the caliphate born once again.

So you think of it as coincidences, maybe who knows.

 
The prophet had foretold about the events that will take place in the era of end times.

He also said there would be a big war between Rum and the believers. Unfortunately Rum stopped existing about 550 years ago.

Wouldn't hold my breath...
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Well if it were true then that suggest there murders are good and just, does it not?

So we have the other option and which is a conspiracy planned for it from outside the region since we know that the Muslim world goes against it and not supporting it.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
He also said there would be a big war between Rum and the believers. Unfortunately Rum stopped existing about 550 years ago.

Wouldn't hold my breath...

Doesn't need a hard thinking ?

Iranians are Persians (east), and Romans (west) are those who follow Christianity.
 
So we have the other option and which is a conspiracy planned for it from outside the region since we know that the Muslim world goes against it and not supporting it.

We also have the option that it was a group of Muslim militants who took over a large area of land due to a decade of war in the region and corrupt and ineffective sectarian government.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
We also have the option that it was a group of Muslim militants who took over a large area of land due to a decade of war in the region and corrupt and ineffective sectarian government.

And they're still controlling parts in Iraq and Syria, airstrikes were useless and everyone is avoiding the ground war, the west refused sending troops to fight them and Turkey refused to do the job as well.

Now if Syria lost the war then the whole Syria will be An Islamic state that plans to invade the world by ground invasion and if we'll keep striking them by air then that won't stop them from controlling the land.

How a small group of militants can resist and get bigger ?
 
Doesn't need a hard thinking ?

Iranians are Persians (east), and Romans (west) are those who follow Christianity.

Nonsense.

Rum was used to refer to the Roman Empire (Byzantine version) based in Constantinople (Istanbul), it wasn't used to refer to Christians in general or the (western) Roman Empire based in Rome which didn't exist any more. The hadiths don't make sense if it means Christians.

Various Muslims will claim Rum refers to: Christians, white people, the West, Europe, Russia, the Orthodox Church, the Catholic Church, America, Turkey, Italy, Greece, Copts, etc.

Why so many? Because Rum doesn't exist and so people have to make up who it might be even though none of them actually make any sense.

It's more credible to just admit the hadiths are wrong rather than try to defend them by pretending that Rum doesn't quite clearly refer to the Eastern continuation of the Roman Empire based in Constantinople.
 
How a small group of militants can resist and get bigger ?

Good tactics, good equipment, motivated fighters, ineffective opposition, hostility to brutal Shia government and militias, etc.

Anyway, while they are gaining slowly in some areas, they are losing ground in others.
 

Pastek

Sunni muslim
I don't know if it's authentic.

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
I heard Allah's Apostle while he was facing the East, saying, "Verily! Afflictions are there, from where the side of the head of Satan comes out."

Some said it's Irak/Sham region.

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "Time will pass rapidly, good deeds will decrease, miserliness will be thrown (in the hearts of the people) afflictions will appear and there will be much 'Al-Harj."
They said, "O Allah's Apostle! What is "Al-Harj?" He said, "Killing! Killing!"


SAHIH BUKHARI, BOOK 88: Afflictions and the End of the World


Nonsense.

Rum was used to refer to the Roman Empire (Byzantine version) based in Constantinople (Istanbul), it wasn't used to refer to Christians in general or the (western) Roman Empire based in Rome which didn't exist any more. The hadiths don't make sense if it means Christians.

Various Muslims will claim Rum refers to: Christians, white people, the West, Europe, Russia, the Orthodox Church, the Catholic Church, America, Turkey, Italy, Greece, Copts, etc..

It's more credible to just admit the hadiths are wrong rather than try to defend them by pretending that Rum doesn't quite clearly refer to the Eastern continuation of the Roman Empire based in Constantinople.

I don't know what is this hadith, but i can tell you that some arabs say "rum" for western people. (But few i have to admit)

I remember a famous song (from the 90' i think) saying :

Yâ zîna mâ-ni'š ɛalî-k
Ô belle, je ne suis pas [en train de parler] sur toi
My beauty, i'm not talking about you

Ma-ni'š ɛalî-k u rani ɛalâ r-rumiyyât
Pas sur toi, mais sur les Occidentales
Not about you, but the western women

(Song : Raina Raï "Ya zina")
Raina Rai - Ya ezzina
 

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
So we have the other option and which is a conspiracy planned for it from outside the region since we know that the Muslim world goes against it and not supporting it.
I went with the third option. Your taking the second?
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Nonsense.

Rum was used to refer to the Roman Empire (Byzantine version) based in Constantinople (Istanbul), it wasn't used to refer to Christians in general or the (western) Roman Empire based in Rome which didn't exist any more. The hadiths don't make sense if it means Christians.

Various Muslims will claim Rum refers to: Christians, white people, the West, Europe, Russia, the Orthodox Church, the Catholic Church, America, Turkey, Italy, Greece, Copts, etc.

Why so many? Because Rum doesn't exist and so people have to make up who it might be even though none of them actually make any sense.

It's more credible to just admit the hadiths are wrong rather than try to defend them by pretending that Rum doesn't quite clearly refer to the Eastern continuation of the Roman Empire based in Constantinople.

In Prophet's time the Romans are people coming from the west (Europe today), speaking in the language of ancient times Romans = Europe and Persia = Iran
 

mahmoud mrt

Member
The prophet had foretold about the events that will take place in the era of end times.


He said that There will be sanctions on Iraq and next on Syria before the caliphate started to take over in the Muslim world, and he described exactly the stages of ruling in the Muslim world after his death.


So if what is happening nowadays is the real caliphate then the prophet's prophecy confirms that his message was a serious and true one otherwise it is a conspiracy from outside the Muslim world in which Nasrallah accused Israel of doing it.


Do you think it is the real caliphate as the prophet prophesied or a conspiracy ?




It’s a conspiracy for sure,



Most of the so called traditions or hadiths about the end of times are not authenticated actually to the prophet.



Don’t you think that events as important as this should have been mentioned in the holy Qur’an Which is memorized and authenticated by all Muslims.



How on earth you consider ISIS as Caliphate.

They do exactly what the holy Qur’an forbids them to do,



They Execute Prisoners while the holy Qur’an Forbids this;



Holy Qur’an Chapter 47

47:4 So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.





See how they take only the first sentence and leave the right next sentence in the same verse that talks about battle, this is how they think, they justify their crimes by stupid cut off as if they’re they ones who have the right to cut any sentence from any verse and give it a slogan.



Here is another verse summons the Muslim to give the food he likes to the prisoner of war.

Holy Qur’an Chapter 76

76:8 And they give food in spite of love for it to the needy, the orphan, and the captive,





They force Christians and Jews who are criticizes of Iraq and Syria to Pay Jezya while even the Prophet did not take the Jezya from the peaceful Jews who were living in Medina, even until his death. The Jezya was only on the Attacking Nations who were the Byzantine Roman Empire and the Ghasasena, it’s not on the normal non-Muslim citizens of the Muslim country.

They take salves from any religion other than Christians or Jews saying that they have no rights, while the holy Qur’an summons to free the slaves not to take them. And many sins the holy Qur’an state that to repent to God from them is to free the slaves.

Holy Qur’an Chapter 90

90:12 And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the difficult pass?

90:13 It is the freeing of a slave



The holy Qur’an Clearly states that any peaceful Pagan or non-Muslim should be grated safety even in time of war.


Holy Qur’an chapter 4:


94- O you who have believed, when you go forth [to fight] in the cause of Allah , investigate; and do not say to one who gives you [a greeting of] peace "You are not a believer," aspiring for the goods of worldly life; for with Allah are many acquisitions. You [yourselves] were like that before; then Allah conferred His favor upon you, so investigate. Indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.


Here is another verse instructing the Muslims in war to give refuge and safety to any non-Muslims who seeks it, and ensure that he returns to his home safely


Holy Qur’an chapter 9:


6- And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.



They kill persons on what they say while the holy Qur’an directly says that Muslims should be patient not killers


Holy Quran chapter 4 verse 186:

(You will surely be tested in your possessions and in yourselves. And you will surely hear from those who were given the Scripture before you and from those who associate others with Allah much abuse. But if you are patient and fear Allah - indeed, that is of the matters [worthy] of determination.)





They Force persons to Islam while the holy Qur’an Cleary states that there is no compulsion in religion:



Holy Qur'an chapter 2:

256- (There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in God (Allah) hath grasped a firm hand hold which will never break. God (Allah) is Hearer, Knower.)


Holy Qur'an Surah 10:

99- (And if thy Lord willed, all who are in the earth would have believed together. Wouldst thou (Muhammad) compel men until they are believers?.).




ISIS are the worse manifest of extremism.


May God Help defeat these stupid criminals, Amin



Regards
Mahmoud
 
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In Prophet's time the Romans are people coming from the west (Europe today), speaking in the language of ancient times Romans = Europe and Persia = Iran

In the Prophet's time, Rum spoke Greek not Latin, 'the language of the ancient Romans'. Most of Europe was not part of the Roman Empire at this point, only parts of the Balkans and some parts of Italy and Greece. It was mostly in the Eastern Mediterranean, Egypt, the Middle East and North Africa.

Rum was the Roman (Byzantine) Empire, then led by Heraclius (an Armenian probably of Parthian descent) centred around modern day Turkey, not Europe. That Rum is the Byzantine Roman Empire is clear from the context and use of Rum in the Quran and Hadith.

Any hadith can be wrong, they aren't infallible like the Quran. It is no problem just to say that hadith is inauthentic and someone must have made a mistake.

The idea that the Roman Empire at the time of Muhammed can be considered synonymous with modern day Europe requires a lot of mental gymnastics and avoidance of the evidence.

Follow the advice you give in your signature :wink:
 
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