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The Catholics venerate the Virgin Mary and "saints" a lot.

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The trouble is too many people have their own interpretation of the Bible just like many different politicians interpret the Constitution their own way.

The Bible was written for HUMANS to read. I would think it was also written for HUMANS to understand. There is no reason for God Himself to read the Bible except maybe to proof-read it for accuracy. There is no need for man to teach God, the possessor of all knowledge, anything. The created does not teach the Creator. It's the other way around. The Bible is a learning tool solely for man about the ways of God. Period. Man doesn't need to know anything more about God than the pages of scripture.
Anyone who has been in serious Bible studies well knows that two people can read the same narrative and possibly end up with different conclusions. With real estate, it's location, location, location, and with Bible studies it's interpretation, interpretation, interpretation.

Also, as it says in gospel itself, not everything in regards to Jesus and the Twelve is written in the Bible, plus it contains myriads of what theologians call "variations", namely verses, and sometime narratives, that differ with each other. Even though it contains divine inspiration, there's still a human element involved.
 

Neutral Name

Active Member
What does the Holy Bible (King James Version) say about saints and the "making of saints"?

What is the Protestant take on "sainthood"?

I know the Protestants don't say "Virgin Mary" nearly as much as they say "'God", "Jesus Christ" and "Holy Ghost". It seems as on Catholic radio, I hear MARY more than CHRIST.

There are passages in the Old Testament referring to saints. Psalms is full of references. Psalm 31:23 Love the Lord, all you his saints! The Lord preserves the faithful but abundantly repays the one who acts in pride.

There are also passages in the New Testament which would seem to show that all Christians are saints:

Romans 1:7 To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:
1 Corinthians 6:2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases?
Ephesians 1:1 [ Greeting ] Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:
Ephesians 3:8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,

The Catholics believe that all dead people in Heaven are saints and "The Catholic Church teaches that it does not "make" or "create" saints, but rather recognizes them."
The Catholic Church canonizes people who are recognized as particularly holy. They are considered to be saints.

The veneration of Mary is interesting to me as she is recognized to be the mother of Jesus which means that she is the mother of God as Jesus was God in the flesh but women are still second class citizens in the Catholic Church as they are not allowed to become priests.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
There are passages in the Old Testament referring to saints. Psalms is full of references. Psalm 31:23 Love the Lord, all you his saints! The Lord preserves the faithful but abundantly repays the one who acts in pride.

There are also passages in the New Testament which would seem to show that all Christians are saints:

Romans 1:7 To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:
1 Corinthians 6:2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases?
Ephesians 1:1 [ Greeting ] Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:
Ephesians 3:8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,

The Catholics believe that all dead people in Heaven are saints and "The Catholic Church teaches that it does not "make" or "create" saints, but rather recognizes them."
The Catholic Church canonizes people who are recognized as particularly holy. They are considered to be saints.

The veneration of Mary is interesting to me as she is recognized to be the mother of Jesus which means that she is the mother of God as Jesus was God in the flesh but women are still second class citizens in the Catholic Church as they are not allowed to become priests.

The Catholics will really have dragged their religion out of the dark ages if they have women priests and a woman pope.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
That the bible says Jesus is the only begotten Son of God is rationality for believing or assuming that God is the true Father of Christ in the natural sense.

The spiritual sense.

The anthropomorphism of biblical language


'The presentation of man as "the image and likeness of God" at the very beginning of Sacred Scripture has another significance too. It is the key for understanding biblical Revelation as God's word about himself. Speaking about himself, whether through the prophets, or through the Son" (cf. Heb 1:1, 2) who became man, God speaks in human language, using human concepts and images. If this manner of expressing himself is characterized by a certain anthropomorphism, the reason is that man is "like" God: created in his image and likeness. But then, God too is in some measure "like man", and precisely because of this likeness, he can be humanly known. At the same time, the language of the Bible is sufficiently precise to indicate the limits of the "likeness", the limits of the "analogy". For biblical Revelation says that, while man's "likeness" to God is true, the "non-likeness" which separates the whole of creation from the Creator is still more essentially true. Although man is created in God's likeness, God does not cease to be for him the one "who dwells in unapproachable light" (1 Tim 6:16): he is the "Different One", by essence the "totally Other".

This observation on the limits of the analogy - the limits of man's likeness to God in biblical language - must also be kept in mind when, in different passages of Sacred Scripture (especially in the Old Testament), we find comparisons that attribute to God "masculine" or "feminine" qualities. We find in these passages an indirect confirmation of the truth that both man and woman were created in the image and likeness of God. If there is a likeness between Creator and creatures, it is understandable that the Bible would refer to God using expressions that attribute to him both "masculine" and "feminine" qualities.

We may quote here some characteristic passages from the prophet Isaiah: "But Zion said, 'The Lord has forsaken me, my Lord has forgotten me'. 'Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should have no compassion on the son of her womb? Even these may forget, yet I will not forget you'". (49:14-15). And elsewhere: "As one whom his mother comforts, so will I comfort you; you shall be comforted in Jerusalem" (66: 13). In the Psalms too God is compared to a caring mother: "Like a child quieted at its mother's breast; like a child that is quieted is my soul. O Israel, hope in the Lord". (Ps 131:2-3). In various passages the love of God who cares for his people is shown to be like that of a mother: thus, like a mother God "has carried" humanity, and in particular, his Chosen People, within his own womb; he has given birth to it in travail, has nourished and comforted it (cf. Is 42:14; 46: 3-4). In many passages God's love is presented as the "masculine" love of the bridegroom and father (cf. Hosea 11:1-4; Jer 3:4-19), but also sometimes as the "feminine" love of a mother.

This characteristic of biblical language - its anthropomorphic way of speaking about God - points indirectly to the mystery of the eternal "generating" which belongs to the inner life of God. Nevertheless, in itself this "generating" has neither "masculine" nor "feminine" qualities. It is by nature totally divine. It is spiritual in the most perfect way, since "God is spirit" (Jn 4:24) and possesses no property typical of the body, neither "feminine" nor "masculine". Thus even "fatherhood" in God is completely divine and free of the "masculine" bodily characteristics proper to human fatherhood. In this sense the Old Testament spoke of God as a Father and turned to him as a Father. Jesus Christ - who called God "Abba Father" (Mk 14: 36), and who as the only-begotten and consubstantial Son placed this truth at the very centre of his Gospel, thus establishing the norm of Christian prayer - referred to fatherhood in this ultra-corporeal, superhuman and completely divine sense. He spoke as the Son, joined to the Father by the eternal mystery of divine generation, and he did so while being at the same time the truly human Son of his Virgin Mother.

Although it is not possible to attribute human qualities to the eternal generation of the Word of God, and although the divine fatherhood does not possess "masculine" characteristics in a physical sense, we must nevertheless seek in God the absolute model of all "generation" among human beings. This would seem to be the sense of the Letter to the Ephesians: "I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named" (3:14-15). All "generating" among creatures finds its primary model in that generating which in God is completely divine, that is, spiritual. All "generating" in the created world is to be likened to this absolute and uncreated model. Thus every element of human generation which is proper to man, and every element which is proper to woman, namely human "fatherhood" and "motherhood", bears within itself a likeness to, or analogy with the divine "generating" and with that "fatherhood" which in God is "totally different", that is, completely spiritual and divine in essence; whereas in the human order, generation is proper to the "unity of the two": both are "parents", the man and the woman alike.
 
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