The Challenge in the Qur'an

[Tiapan]

Yes,but it's much simpler, God who made our minds able to learn,use,and understand languages can easly make us understand,use and think in one language later,no translation needed,we will think in Arabic.
Those who will go in Paradise will also have the same color and the same general physical appearance.

If Allah is all wise, why did he use an obscure language like arabic, instead of a universal language like english?

The believers who did good deeds will go to paradise,the unbelievers and will go to Hell Fire.

I take it this is pretty conclusively, to go to Paradise, fulfill the following criteria
1. You must believe in the Koran AND
2. You must do good deeds (at the exclusion of bad deeds?)

The believers of this life are in the paradise in the hereafter,men and women,all of those will be married no singles there.

1. So do the children and babies have to be married in paradise and forced to have sex, as is the duty of the female to her husband according to a vast number of islamists? (See Afghan Law change last week http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/08/13/afghanistan-law-curbing-women-s-rights-takes-effect)
2. Why get married, can you breed in Paradise by having sex, and bring up a new different family, or do you sit around sipping tea all day.
3. There are bunches (of fruit), so I presume we eat in Paradise, why? we don't need nutrients surely? (Are their Toilets in Paradise? Do they require plumbing?)

Quran 3:15
For the righteous are Gardens in nearness to their Lord, with riversflowing beneath; therein is their eternal home; with companions pure (andholy); and the good pleasure of Allah. For in Allah's sight are (all) Hisservants,-
palaces and these types of cloths are Kinds of Bliss
76:12-22
And because they were patient and constant, He will reward them with a Garden and (garments of) silk.Reclining in the (Garden) on raised thrones, they will see there neither the sun's (excessive heat) nor (the moon's) excessive cold.And the shades of the (Garden) will come low over them, and the bunches (of fruit), there, will hang low in humility.And amongst them will be passed round vessels of silver and goblets of crystal,-Crystal-clear, made of silver: they will determine the measure thereof (according to their wishes).And they shall be made to drink therein a cup the admixture of which shall be ginger,A fountain there, called Salsabil.And round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness): If thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered Pearls.

Sounds just like Melbourne in Spring. I hope they have trams in Paradise.

And when thou lookest, it is there thou wilt see a Bliss and a Realm Magnificent.
Upon them will be green Garments of fine silk and heavy brocade, and they will be adorned with Bracelets of silver; and their Lord will give to them to drink of a Wine Pure and Holy."Verily this is a Reward for you, and your Endeavour is accepted and recognised."

Sounds nice for dress up, but why the clothes? Who would need or want any of these earthly materialistic hedonistic things in Paradise? How did the trees and grass get into paradise, they are non-believers. And alcohol is legal in Paradise, I like that bit.
Also cups are for containing liquids against the force of Gravity, so from your lines of text I deduce Paradise has an atmosphere of oxygen with some CO2 and is in a gravitational environment.

Breeding is not the only reason sex is there,that is also a kind of bliss and joy.
Believers only will go to paradise.

I thought some where it says, sex is immoral (evil) if not used purely for procreation.

Cheers

I have just figured it out, when Muslims die they must come to Melbourne because it is Paradise, but they have to learn Universal English first..

 

[England my lionheart]

Guys,i've got this from ask the Scholar question and answer session at Islamonline.net,at least we know it can't be in English.

ayat - Norway
ProfessionQuestion As-Salamu `alaykum. Is it really haram to put another book on top of the Qur'an? Do I have to place my Qur'an on top of the bookshelf, or just treat it with respect? What about a copy that includes the English translation and commentary? AnswerWa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

We must respect the Qur’an and we should not put any other book on top of it out of respect to the Book of Allah.

As for the English commentary, it is to be dealt with in a respectful way too. However, it cannot take the same status like the Arabic Qur’an. So, if there are many shelves, you can make one for Qur’an and another one for other books.

Allah Almighty knows best.

Does this mean that an English speaking Muslim is less important than an Arab one,just a thought

 

[Tiapan]

Originally Posted by England my lionheart
Guys,i've got this from ask the Scholar question and answer session at Islamonline.net,at least we know it can't be in English.

He must have got it wrong, because when I spoke to god last Thursday she said it was fine to use english. I know I am correct because my heart told me it was truth and truth is perfect.

Cheers

 

[Zhakir]

Does this mean that an English speaking Muslim is less important than an Arab one,just a thought

I want to comment on this first,The original Quran in it's own language is the most sacred.translation give the meaning but not the exact same expression of Allah (swt).
What does that have to do with your racists thoughts ? Quran states that the most honorable of people is the one who has the highst level of Godconsciousness,
The craiteria for preference in Islam isn't sex,race,money,color etc. it's Godconsciousness.All humans are considered brothers and sisters in Islam,all of Adam (pbuh).
You're going too far away from truth,your comments are misleading.

 

[Zhakir]

If Allah is all wise, why did he use an obscure language like arabic, instead of a universal language like english?

1.It doesn't matter at all,in hereafter we will not face difficulties in communication we won't think in different languges,at that time how does it matter if other languages we used were this or that.
This is comment is enough but more reasons i give are:
2.Arabic isn't obscure,it's is now a universal and a livivng,it is the Official languages of 26 countries,one of the six official languages of the United nations.Ranking by native speakers is 4-5 (280 M),a similar number speakers of Arabic don't speak it as their language 1 (250 M)
3.For centuries Arabic was the most popular language in the world spoken through out the world from portugal in the west (which means "Orange" in Arabic "Burtuqalبرتقال" ,English "Orange" is also comes from Arabic نارنجة naringa) to china in the east,for these people lived in all these centuries Arabic should be used for communication in the Hereafter as used,english on the other hand has been global since few decades.
4.Most of the languges share Arabic words,Arabic has the gratest influence in other languages,especially in vocabulary ,no other language has this strong influence.
"Orange" and "portugal" are 2 examples of thousands in each of the hundereds influenced languages.
Influence of Arabic on other languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
5.Since the 7th century arabic has been universal among the Muslims who Constitute more that 20% of the human population (16% as you said before)
But constitute 100% of the Paradise population lived in the world after the 7th Only believers will go to paradise,other in Hell should care about /feel the pain,nothing matters in their life in fire,what a life !

I take it this is pretty conclusively, to go to Paradise, fulfill the following criteria
1. You must believe in the Koran AND
2. You must do good deeds (at the exclusion of bad deeds?)

Quran 103:1-3 (full sura)
I swear by the time,Verily Man is in loss,Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.
This is the criteria to go to Paradise,Faith includes faith in Allah (swt) ,the Prophets (pbut),the Angels,(the books revealed by Allah (swt),the last day and destiny.One should repent if he\she sins.

1. So do the children and babies have to be married in paradise and forced to have sex, as is the duty of the female to her husband according to a vast number of islamists? (See Afghan Law change last week Afghanistan: Law Curbing Women’s Rights Takes Effect | Human Rights Watch)

What children,i said that people will have the same general physical appearance,the last day counts for thousand of years before the last one enters Paradise,Allah (swt) will make all of us adults (like a man aged 33 years),we will live for ever. In hell or paradise,If you're in hell this won't just be the last thing you want to think about ,you will not think about any way,Fire is what you should feel,and think about now.

2. Why get married, can you breed in Paradise by having sex, and bring up a new different family, or do you sit around sipping tea all day.

Marrige and sex is considerd to be a kind of bliss and joy,this is why.about breeding i think people don't breed,but I'm mot sure whether he can't if he wants or not.

3. There are bunches (of fruit), so I presume we eat in Paradise, why? we don't need nutrients surely? (Are their Toilets in Paradise? Do they require plumbing?)

Yes, different foods and drinks in Hell and Paradise,for Joy and Bliss in Paradise,and pain in Fire.
(In paradise it turens to perfumes out of shoulders,but no toilets)
Note:You're not funny.

Sounds just like Melbourne in Spring. I hope they have trams in Paradise.



Sounds nice for dress up, but why the clothes? Who would need or want any of these earthly materialistic hedonistic things in Paradise? How did the trees and grass get into paradise, they are non-believers. And alcohol is legal in Paradise, I like that bit.
Also cups are for containing liquids against the force of Gravity, so from your lines of text I deduce Paradise has an atmosphere of oxygen with some CO2 and is in a gravitational environment.

Bliss and joy,why palaces? Bliss and joy.

I thought some where it says, sex is immoral (evil) if not used purely for procreation.

Cheers

Well you are wrong,Adultry and rape is,lawful sex is encoraged and permited

 

[Tiapan]

1.It doesn't matter at all,in hereafter we will not face difficulties in communication we won't think in different languges,at that time how does it matter if other languages we used were this or that.
This is comment is enough but more reasons i give are:
2.Arabic isn't obscure,it's is now a universal and a livivng,it is the Official languages of 26 countries,one of the six official languages of the United nations.Ranking by native speakers is 4-5 (280 M),a similar number speakers of Arabic don't speak it as their language 1 (250 M)
3.For centuries Arabic was the most popular language in the world spoken through out the world from portugal in the west (which means "Orange" in Arabic "Burtuqalبرتقال" ,English "Orange" is also comes from Arabic نارنجة naringa) to china in the east,for these people lived in all these centuries Arabic should be used for communication in the Hereafter as used,english on the other hand has been global since few decades.
4.Most of the languges share Arabic words,Arabic has the gratest influence in other languages,especially in vocabulary ,no other language has this strong influence.
"Orange" and "portugal" are 2 examples of thousands in each of the hundereds influenced languages.
Influence of Arabic on other languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
5.Since the 7th century arabic has been universal among the Muslims who Constitute more that 20% of the human population (16% as you said before)
But constitute 100% of the Paradise population lived in the world after the 7th Only believers will go to paradise,other in Hell should care about /feel the pain,nothing matters in their life in fire,what a life !

Quran 103:1-3 (full sura)
I swear by the time,Verily Man is in loss,Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.
This is the criteria to go to Paradise,Faith includes faith in Allah (swt) ,the Prophets (pbut),the Angels,(the books revealed by Allah (swt),the last day and destiny.One should repent if he\she sins.

I agree arabic is a language used by a small portion of the worlds population, but Allah (etcetcetcect),who knows all, must have realised english would be the major language down the track, even though at the time it had not been invented. Just seems he made a simple mistake.

What children,i said that people will have the same general physical appearance,the last day counts for thousand of years before the last one enters Paradise,Allah (swt) will make all of us adults (like a man aged 33 years),we will live for ever. In hell or paradise,If you're in hell this won't just be the last thing you want to think about ,you will not think about any way,Fire is what you should feel,and think about now.

Now this bit has me a little intrigued. from baby to 33 year old overnight? Have they learned to speak, read and walk overnight? The amazing experience of childhood just gone? I see a few thought contradictions here.

Marrige and sex is considerd to be a kind of bliss and joy,this is why.about breeding i think people don't breed,but I'm mot sure whether he can't if he wants or not.

I don't know if that answered my question.

Yes, different foods and drinks in Hell and Paradise,for Joy and Bliss in Paradise,and pain in Fire.
(In paradise it turens to perfumes out of shoulders,but no toilets)

So you do not eat the food or drink anything really, is it more like tasting, while not swallowing. So we must have our tongues still to enjoy with bliss and joy the taste and a body that excretes volatile waste through its shoulders. No roughage in the diet obviously. mmm.. interesting physiology.
Do we weigh anything, ie do we have mass in Paradise.
When you say joy and bliss do you mean like that feeling when you pick up your child for the first time, or watching a butterfly emerge from its cocoon?
I am trying to work out what is different between Melbourne in Spring (real and operating today) and the hypothetical Islamic post-death concept of Paradise, they both sound very similar, but Melbourne has public toilets, we still do it the old fashion way.

Note:You're not funny.

This was not meant to be funny, I am very serious. You portray a place that is virtually another earth, with gravity, sunshine, blue skies, presumably birds and butterflies etc. So why would this paradise not require all the same things that would be required on normal earth.

Bliss and joy,why palaces? Bliss and joy.

Yes Melbourne

Well you are wrong,Adultry and rape is,lawful sex is encoraged and permited

Thank you for the correction it must have been the Baptists I was thinking of.

 

[Zhakir]

I agree arabic is a language used by a small portion of the worlds population, but Allah (etcetcetcect),who knows all, must have realised english would be the major language down the track, even though at the time it had not been invented. Just seems he made a simple mistake.

It's as if you didn't read what i said.
1.It doesn't matter at all,in hereafter we will not face difficulties in communication we won't think in different languges,at that time how does it matter if other languages we used were this or that.
This is comment is enough but more reasons i give are:
2.Arabic isn't obscure,it's is now a universal and a livivng,it is the Official languages of 26 countries,one of the six official languages of the United nations.Ranking by native speakers is 4-5 (280 M),a similar number speakers of Arabic don't speak it as their language 1 (250 M)
3.For centuries Arabic was the most popular language in the world spoken through out the world from portugal in the west (which means "Orange" in Arabic "Burtuqalبرتقال" ,English "Orange" is also comes from Arabic نارنجة naringa) to china in the east,for these people lived in all these centuries Arabic should be used for communication in the Hereafter as used,english on the other hand has been global since few decades.
4.Most of the languges share Arabic words,Arabic has the gratest influence on other languages,especially in vocabulary ,no other language has this strong influence.
"Orange" and "portugal" are 2 examples of thousands in each of the hundereds influenced languages.
Influence of Arabic on other languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
5.Since the 7th century arabic has been universal among the Muslims who Constitute more that 20% of the human population (NOT 16% as you said before)
But constitute 100% of the Paradise population lived in the world after the 7th Only believers will go to paradise,other in Hell should care about /feel the pain,nothing matters in their life in fire,what a life !
Arabic isn't spoken by a small portion you are wrong,i didn't mentioned though the jinns who live with us on earth and the spirits all we present in the hereafter.
Read this carefully:
Since the 7th century arabic has been universal among the Muslims who Constitute more that 20% of the human population (16% as you said before)
But constitute 100% of the Paradise population lived in the world after the 7th
As for english which became popular recently,it's only spoken (Both as native and as foreign)
By 17.65% of the world popultion.which means that 82.45% of the people now can't use it.
List of countries by English-speaking population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[England my lionheart]

I want to comment on this first,The original Quran in it's own language is the most sacred.translation give the meaning but not the exact same expression of Allah (swt).
What does that have to do with your racists thoughts ? Quran states that the most honorable of people is the one who has the highst level of Godconsciousness,
The craiteria for preference in Islam isn't sex,race,money,color etc. it's Godconsciousness.All humans are considered brothers and sisters in Islam,all of Adam (pbuh).
You're going too far away from truth,your comments are misleading.

How do you know what thoughts i am having,i can assure you that they are not racist,i am merely pointing out a fact that an Arabic Quran is more important than an English translation and asked the question "does that mean a non Arabic speaking Muslim is less important than an Arabic speaking one" definately no racism on my part.

 

[Zhakir]

How do you know what thoughts i am having,i can assure you that they are not racist,i am merely pointing out a fact that an Arabic Quran is more important than an English translation and asked the question "does that mean a non Arabic speaking Muslim is less important than an Arabic speaking one" definately no racism on my part.

Ok.. this means no:

I want to comment on this first,The original Quran in it's own language is the most sacred.translation give the meaning but not the exact same expression of Allah (swt).
What does that have to do with your racists thoughts ? Quran states that the most honorable of people is the one who has the highst level of Godconsciousness,
The craiteria for preference in Islam isn't etc. it's Godconsciousness.All humans are considered brothers and sisters in Islam,all of Adam (pbuh).
You're going too far away from truth,your comments are misleading.

Honor,importance and preference of a human has nothing to do with his/her language,sex,race,money,color etc.
49:13 of the Holy Quran states:
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other(not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you inthe sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has fullknowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

 

[kai]

well if an Arabic Quran is the Only true Quran , and Arabic is the language of the revelation and paradise, anyone not able to read and write Arabic is obviously going to be disadvantaged when it comes to God consciousness.

 

[England my lionheart]

He must have got it wrong, because when I spoke to god last Thursday she said it was fine to use english. I know I am correct because my heart told me it was truth and truth is perfect.

Cheers

LOL......if only someone actually knew

 

[England my lionheart]

Ok.. this means no:
[/I]
Honor,importance and preference of a human has nothing to do with his/her language,sex,race,money,color etc.
49:13 of the Holy Quran states:
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other(not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you inthe sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has fullknowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

So then why was the Arabic Quran more important that the English translation if language isn't a barrier,why was it not ok to put them together on a book shelf? its a small but relevant detail.

 

[Zhakir]

So then why was the Arabic Quran more important that the English translation if language isn't a barrier,why was it not ok to put them together on a book shelf? its a small but relevant detail.

I repeat
Honor,importance and preference of a human has nothing to do with his/her language,sex,race,money,color etc.
49:13 of the Holy Quran states:
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other(not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you inthe sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has fullknowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
Quran in it's Original text is the most authentic the reason is that translations give the meaning but not the exact same expression of Allah (swt).this has nothing to do with a human's language or the honor,importance and preference of a human .

well if an Arabic Quran is the Only true Quran , and Arabic is the language of the revelation and paradise, anyone not able to read and write Arabic is obviously going to be disadvantaged when it comes to God consciousness.

Totally wrong,though translation do not give the exact same expression of Allah (swt), they give the same meaning,especially when it comes about God consciousness i.e Commands and orders,lists of do's and don'ts."La taqtul" for an Arabic speaker is the same "Don't kill" for an english one. no disadvantages when it comes to God consciousness.

 

[YmirGF]

no disadvantages when it comes to God consciousness.

Now if only Muslims exhibited actual knowledge of this God consciousness we might just have an interesting conversation...

 

[Zhakir]

Now if only Muslims exhibited actual knowledge of this God consciousness we might just have an interesting conversation...

Muslims have talked about that.
God consciousness is fearing God and being committed to his orders.Fearing God and not doing the prohibited things, is Very important and healthy for the societies.And not fearing him caused alot it's clear, now many books have been written on that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_flu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aids
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime
We can go on and on...
The world has now found out that Forbbiding intrest is good, same to swine meat, alcohol etc. a very long list of bad things and acts.Allah prohibited what's bad.

He allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure).

7:157 of the Quran.​

 

[McBell]

I repeat
Honor,importance and preference of a human has nothing to do with his/her language,sex,race,money,color etc.

At least, until the claim is made that one has to read/hear the koran in the original Arabic to in order to "fully" understand it....

 

[kai]

I repeat
Honor,importance and preference of a human has nothing to do with his/her language,sex,race,money,color etc.
49:13 of the Holy Quran states:
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other(not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you inthe sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has fullknowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
Quran in it's Original text is the most authentic the reason is that translations give the meaning but not the exact same expression of Allah (swt).this has nothing to do with a human's language or the honor,importance and preference of a human .

Totally wrong,though translation do not give the exact same expression of Allah (swt), they give the same meaning,especially when it comes about God consciousness i.e Commands and orders,lists of do's and don'ts."La taqtul" for an Arabic speaker is the same "Don't kill" for an english one. no disadvantages when it comes to God consciousness.

well thats true when you just have to translate the orders and rules etc but not when you can only fully appreciate the revelation in Arabic, then you can only fully appreciate god with an understanding of Arabic. and please don't say on the one hand the only true Quran is an Arabic Quran and then say "this has nothing to do with a humans language ", it has everything to do with it. If that was indeed the case then there would be no need to keep your Arabic Quran higher on the book shelf than your English one.

 

[Zhakir]

well thats true when you just have to translate the orders and rules etc but not when you can only fully appreciate the revelation in Arabic, then you can only fully appreciate god with an understanding of Arabic.

The Quran in its original God's text is the most sacred.I appreciate God (swt) with understanding the Quran not knowing the Arabic language .

and please don't say on the one hand the only true Quran is an Arabic Quran and then say "this has nothing to do with a humans language ", it has everything to do with it. If that was indeed the case then there would be no need to keep your Arabic Quran higher on the book shelf than your English one.

What i said was :
Translations give the meaning but not the exact same expression of Allah (swt).this (meant England's comment) has nothing to do with a human's language or the honor,importance and preference of a human .
I never said

only true Quran is an Arabic Quran and then "this has nothing to do with a humans language ",

What has nothing to do with a human language is not what you called "Only true Quran".It is the honor,importance and preference of a human. that is what has nothing to do with a human's language.Watch it ! and please don't misquote others to push your claims.

 

[kai]

The Quran in its original God's text is the most sacred.I appreciate God (swt) with understanding the Quran not knowing the Arabic language .
So you dont understand Gods text?
What i said was :
Translations give the meaning but not the exact same expression of Allah (swt).this has nothing to do with a human's language or the honor,importance and preference of a human .
I never said
What has nothing to do with a human language is not what you called "Only true Quran".It is the honor,importance and preference of a human. that is what has nothing to do with a human's language.Watch it ! and please don't misquote others to push your claims.

and i never said that you said :

What has nothing to do with a human language is not what you called "Only true Quran".It is the honor,importance and preference of a human. that is what has nothing to do with a human's language.Watch it ! and please don't misquote others to push your claims.[/QUOTE]



watch what ? and dont misquote me , you said and i do quote " it has nothing to do with a humans language" when it clearly does

 

[YmirGF]

watch what ? and dont misquote me , you said and i do quote " it has nothing to do with a humans language" when it clearly does

His God consciousness to human animal consciousness translator must have a software bug.