The Church is compromising!

[michel]

Now on the topic of opening to homosexuality? Would I have a deacon or an elder as a homosexual?
NO
Though I'll still love the person but hate his sin, as the heavenly father would. If I kill, should the church not tell me this is wrong and punish me in a loving way, so that I stay, feeling loved.

Many ways to punish, not all physical force.

So I will welcome a homosexual to church, and show him where it says its wrong. Tell him of my testimony and my trials and what the Lord has done for me.


-Chris[/QUOTE Perhaps you have hit the nail on the head, you welcome him to the church, and show him where it says his behaviour is wrong. Your duty is then done, and it is up to him to decide what path he chooses to take. He is not your responsability.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

There is something intensly ugly occupying the fringes of theology, and manifesting itself repeatedly in an insistence on reframing the plague, the aids pandemiic, the tsunami disaster, etc. as divine justice. In the logic of this backwater theology, when all else fails, demonize the victim. Such attitudes transcend a simple clash between religion and science. I suspect, for example, that a good percentage of creationist don't share such views.

Deut,
You are correct in labelling this thinking backwater theology. I suspect the Jerry Falwells of the South will be the only folks willing to posit that AIDs is a punishment from God and other backward views of our friend here. Conservative Christian theologians are going to be against homosexuality, but those who think that AIDs (tsunami, demonization of the victim, etc) is some divine punishment are few and far between, and I don't think that I have ever seen it in serious scholarship.

The views espoused by our friend here are rare (among scholars of course, they are not rare in the South - the final frontier for humane religion), and I suspect that he is an ignorant Southerner.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Is it possible that the church has come to this? To compromise with the enemy?
Methodist churches permitting homosexual elders, baptist churches allowing segregation, brethren churches not enforcing youth dress codes, and christian parents fighting and allowing there children to dress anywhich way or listen to whatever...

The church has become lukewarm, and we know what happens then...

What are your view points has the church compromised, or is everything just peachy.

-Chris

Jesus said that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. If he is wrong or a liar, then there is no reason for any of us to follow him. Although you have not clearly explained who the enemy of the church is, according to Jesus himself, there is no weapon that can be formed against the church which can cause its destruction - there is no enemy who can prosper against the church.

I know nothing of Baptist segregation, but I do see in the South that many large churches have "missions" for ethnic groups so that they can have services in their own langauges, but this seems to me a vital ministry and not segregation, as these ethinic groups are welcome in the larger congregation.

As for dress, we should strive for holiness, but not at the expense of becoming Pharisees. Apparaently we need teens and everyone else to dress "conservatively" because our hearts are heardened and we can't keep our eyes off them to worship God. However, enforcing this is difficult and leads to the singling out of women...

You need to research AIDs...

 

[Prima]

Now wait just one minute here...not everything that comes from the South is bad - Prima being an excellent example

However, I noticed something else - you say 'the Church' is compromising, yet you haven't specified what church you're talking about. You've mixed your denominations up - churches have always had different doctrines than each other, so I don't see why one, two, or even three of them changing would signify that 'the Church' is compromising...

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Now wait just one minute here...not everything that comes from the South is bad - Prima being an excellent example

However, I noticed something else - you say 'the Church' is compromising, yet you haven't specified what church you're talking about. You've mixed your denominations up - churches have always had different doctrines than each other, so I don't see why one, two, or even three of them changing would signify that 'the Church' is compromising...

I did not mean to imply that everything in the South is bad. The Bible belt of the South is widely known for being a hotbed for conservative Christian heresies (KKK being the prime example) and backward pop theology (eg, the current hoo-ha in Kansas over evolution).

 

[Prima]

I did not mean to imply that everything in the South is bad. The Bible belt of the South is widely known for being a hotbed for conservative Christian heresies (KKK being the prime example) and backward pop theology (eg, the current hoo-ha in Kansas over evolution).

I know, love, I was just teasing you. I truly did not think you were that ignorant! :biglaugh:

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I know, love, I was just teasing you. I truly did not think you were that ignorant! :biglaugh:

Yeah, as I study I only learn that there is so much more that I don't know...

 

[CaptainXeroid]

...What are your view points has the church compromised...

The way I see it, the church has moved closer to the spirit of Jesus' teaching by removing man-made obstacles to worship. I wouldn't call that compromising at all.

Now wait just one minute here...not everything that comes from the South is bad - Prima being an excellent example...

Here here! A lot of other people must like the South cause they keep moving here and they don't leave.

 

[michel]

There is something intensly ugly occupying the fringes of theology, and manifesting itself repeatedly in an insistence on reframing the plague, the aids pandemiic, the tsunami disaster, etc. as divine justice. In the logic of this backwater theology, when all else fails, demonize the victim. Such attitudes transcend a simple clash between religion and science. I suspect, for example, that a good percentage of creationist don't share such views.

I agree with you Deut.
I bet that surprised you!:biglaugh: Seriously though I don't believe that any Earthly disasters are as a result of divine justice; just happenstance.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I agree with you Deut.
I bet that surprised you!:biglaugh: Seriously though I don't believe that any Earthly disasters are as a result of divine justice; just happenstance.

The events (disease, tornados, tsunamis, and the like) which Deut refers to fit into a category of evil in Christian theology called natural evil.

EDIT:

Evil is defined as neglect and good is provision. These natural evils neglect humanity, and fair conditions bring provision.

 

[phernduke]

Well Maize towards your interesting yet false story on page 2 I have to differ.

Now why would Lot offer his two virgin daughters to the crowd? Why explain that they were virgins, if this was just a hospitality visit, then why not the angels come out to talk? Why would the people be willing to kill to talk to someone. This does not sound like a visiting party but a rapage party.

Obviously there is something blocking the truth from your mind.

Im not sure about you, but if an angry mob came to my house to talk with my friend from far away. I think I would let that happen. Now, if they wanted to rape him, I figure I would do anything to appease the crowds outside. Especially protect my friend from harm. What do you say to that?

-Chris

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What do you say to that?

I'd say that anyone who casts AIDS as divine justice is promoting the most despicable and heartless drivel imaginable. What of the holocaust victims? Were they too being punished by your demiurge?

 

[phernduke]

One other thing Maize, tell me what facility, and what state were you incarcerated at?

I was there, yes there are gay people there and yes there are transvestites, but it is so very rare a homosexual male will rape another inmate cause they are weak. Maybe in a Youth Authority. You see there is segragation in prison, it is one person of many. Fighting together to achieve supermacy. You have the woodpile, the skins, the surano's, the northano's, the bulldogs, the blacks, the asians, and pica's.

You never really ever see a hetrosexual male attempt to rape another inmate. There are laws even in prison, and when there are camera's bearing down on you and at least 5 guards in the building with M14's staring you down. There isn't much room to breath, let alone the 500 people in your building designed for 300.

Now Maize, I regret I have this knowledge, yet it comes in handy. sometimes.

-Chris

 

[phernduke]

Hrmm, lets see there ancestors crucified there own messiah, and countless prophets, they no longer kept the shabbat day holy and they turned from God. Indeed the holocaust was horrible. Infact hiddeous, but what if you were my father, and you loved me more than words or actions and you had a plan for me. Then I slapped you in your face, spit on you, and crucified you to the whole world to mock you in your face. Then do everything I could to rebel against you.

The father would not kill you, but he would surely punish you.

Now image this father has millions of sons and daughters and they all rebel against him, should he not punish?

I am not a anti-semitist, but a believer in God's law, and when I sin against the God Most High, he punishes me. I go to prison, and rot, yet I turn from my ways and go back.

I hope I have not offended you, and I do frequent the halls of the Museum of Tolerance, and I do keep the shabbat as well as Sunday worship.

-Chris

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Hrmm, lets see there ancestors crucified there own messiah, and countless prophets, they no longer kept the shabbat day holy and they turned from God. Indeed the holocaust was horrible. Infact hiddeous, but what if you were my father, and you loved me more than words or actions and you had a plan for me. Then I slapped you in your face, spit on you, and crucified you to the whole world to mock you in your face. Then do everything I could to rebel against you.

The father would not kill you, but he would surely punish you.

Now image this father has millions of sons and daughters and they all rebel against him, should he not punish?

I am not a anti-semitist, but a believer in God's law, and when I sin against the God Most High, he punishes me. I go to prison, and rot, yet I turn from my ways and go back.

I hope I have not offended you, and I do frequent the halls of the Museum of Tolerance, and I do keep the shabbat as well as Sunday worship.

-Chris

I am sure that you are not positing that the Jews were being punished by God in the Halocaust for the crucifixion of Christ. First, it is anti-semetic to assert this. Second, in Christian theology, it was willed by God that Jesus be crucified for the sins of everyone. It was God that crucified Christ, and the sins of all humanity that necesitated His blood. The Gospels do point out that a small group of religious fanatics were behind the political pressure that caused the Romans to crucify Jesus.

Saying something like this is inflamatory and offensive to me. Not being a Jew, I have no idea what it is like for one to hear such filth. My grandfather, as a Christian, volunteered for the Army in WWII and participated in D-Day at Normandy to stop Hitler's tyranny, thinking that it was the Christian's duty to fight for liberty and justice. We should regard Hitler as the anti-Christ and not as God's messenger of punishment.:tsk:

 

[angellous_evangellous]

One other thing Maize, tell me what facility, and what state were you incarcerated at?

I was there, yes there are gay people there and yes there are transvestites, but it is so very rare a homosexual male will rape another inmate cause they are weak. Maybe in a Youth Authority. You see there is segragation in prison, it is one person of many. Fighting together to achieve supermacy. You have the woodpile, the skins, the surano's, the northano's, the bulldogs, the blacks, the asians, and pica's.

You never really ever see a hetrosexual male attempt to rape another inmate. There are laws even in prison, and when there are camera's bearing down on you and at least 5 guards in the building with M14's staring you down. There isn't much room to breath, let alone the 500 people in your building designed for 300.

Now Maize, I regret I have this knowledge, yet it comes in handy. sometimes.

-Chris

Where were you incarcerated at? Your alleged incarceration may have taught you something about life, but it certainly does not make you a religious authority. This excersize requires more thought than you have committed.

 

[SarahBeara]

AIDS as devine justice doesn't make sense because that would make gay men God's least favorite people, lesbians his favorite, and us heterosexuals would fall somewhere in between. And if homosexuality is a sin, than that just doesn't make any sense!

 

[Green Gaia]

Well Maize towards your interesting yet false story on page 2 I have to differ.

I'm sure you do.

Now why would Lot offer his two virgin daughters to the crowd? Why explain that they were virgins, if this was just a hospitality visit, then why not the angels come out to talk? Why would the people be willing to kill to talk to someone. This does not sound like a visiting party but a rapage party.

Even if that is so, it has nothing to do with homosexuals and this story should not be used to condemn loving, homosexual relationships or homosexuals in general. Homosexual rape, yeah go ahead and condemn it.

Obviously there is something blocking the truth from your mind.

*yawn*

Im not sure about you, but if an angry mob came to my house to talk with my friend from far away. I think I would let that happen. Now, if they wanted to rape him, I figure I would do anything to appease the crowds outside. Especially protect my friend from harm. What do you say to that?

I say I wouldn't offer my daughters to them.


You didn't address my other points and questions.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

and I suspect that he is an ignorant Southerner.

As a Southerner of questionable intelligence, I take offense at his inclusion in my social group.

TVOR

 

[Mister Emu]

I still want to know what he meant by saying baptists were allowing segregation.

As a Southerner of questionable intelligence, I take offense at his inclusion in my social group.

:biglaugh: