The Creationistic Method and Why It Is Fraudulent

[DavidFirth]

Well, we're on a debate forum, so it matters what you think. God doesn't seem to post here.



I think it's a shame that you don't think it matters what you think. Does that mean you're lost, morally speaking without some dictates from above telling you what to think?

Allow me to rephrase.

It doesn't matter what I think about God's word. He's always right and I'm always wrong.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Allow me to rephrase.

It doesn't matter what I think about God's word. He's always right and I'm always wrong.

Okay. I think it's a shame that you have to agree that slavery and stoning people to death are moral actions because an old book says so.

I think it's a dangerous thing to willingly give up one's ability to reason and rationalize to the whims of an invisible deity taken from a book written by people who didn't know anything near as much as we now do about the world around us. Because then whatever this deity supposedly claims magically becomes moral. If God says murder is okay, then it is. If God says slavery is okay, then it is. No questions asked. Dashing babies' heads against rocks? Sure, that's moral! In fact, I fail to see how that's a system of morality at all If you're just doing what you're told, I don't see how you're even practicing morality in the first place.

So when you say the Bible illustrates "perfect morality" that's not really your opinion. You're just dictating what the Bible says about it's/God's morality, correct?

 

[QuestioningMind]

Too many big words for you, huh?

No, the word length isn't a problem. It's the bizarre manner in which you link them together and the completely ridiculous conclusions that you reach that makes it incomprehensible nonsense.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Creatures who are more adapted to survival in the cold are more cold blooded? No. Creatures who are "cold blooded", like reptiles, are not adapted to the cold. They don't do well at all when it's cold because they need heat for their muscles to work.

Evolutionary change does not happen quickly? How do you explain:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

It does happen suddenly but of course how could you know that?

The "cold-blooded" mention was merely my giving an example of another way in which animals might survive temperatures that are beginning to fluctuate. Sure, long-term survival of extreme cold would require more than an independently regulated body temperature - not the point I was trying to make at all. In fact, nowhere near the point.

In your linked article, under the heading "Common Misconceptions":

"Much confusion has arisen over what proponents of punctuated equilibrium actually argued, what mechanisms they advocated, how fast the punctuations were, what taxonomic scale their theory applied to, how revolutionary their claims were intended to be, and how punctuated equilibrium related to other ideas like quantum evolution, saltationism, and mass extinction."

"Fast" could simply be "relatively fast" for all anyone knows - on the order of tens of thousands of years vs. millions. Given a high birth and death rate, amidst mounting environmental pressures, might a species evolve "faster" than it might have otherwise? Very likely. What does this prove? God? I don't believe so.

 

[Super Universe]

The "cold-blooded" mention was merely my giving an example of another way in which animals might survive temperatures that are beginning to fluctuate. Sure, long-term survival of extreme cold would require more than an independently regulated body temperature - not the point I was trying to make at all. In fact, nowhere near the point.

In your linked article, under the heading "Common Misconceptions":

"Much confusion has arisen over what proponents of punctuated equilibrium actually argued, what mechanisms they advocated, how fast the punctuations were, what taxonomic scale their theory applied to, how revolutionary their claims were intended to be, and how punctuated equilibrium related to other ideas like quantum evolution, saltationism, and mass extinction."

"Fast" could simply be "relatively fast" for all anyone knows - on the order of tens of thousands of years vs. millions. Given a high birth and death rate, amidst mounting environmental pressures, might a species evolve "faster" than it might have otherwise? Very likely. What does this prove? God? I don't believe so.

I did not give a time frame for the evolutionary change events. I said they happen "suddenly", not instantly.

Does punctuated equilibrium prove God? No, it proves that evolutionary changes did not happen slowly by gradual change over billions of years but with bursts of sudden changes and then long periods of stabillity.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Does punctuated equilibrium prove God? No, it proves that evolutionary changes did not happen slowly by gradual change over billions of years but with bursts of sudden changes and then long periods of stabillity.

So you believe that it proves that ALL evolutionary change happens in sudden bursts? I suppose we simply can't know the truth. Even the proponents of the theory don't know for sure. And in any case, "evolution" itself is not in dispute. A relatively "sudden" change is a change nonetheless.

 

[Super Universe]

So you believe that it proves that ALL evolutionary change happens in sudden bursts? I suppose we simply can't know the truth. Even the proponents of the theory don't know for sure. And in any case, "evolution" itself is not in dispute. A relatively "sudden" change is a change nonetheless.

Do I believe that ALL evolutionary change happens in sudden bursts? My view is huge, it's not just of the earth and primitive humans, so, when you ask whether ALL evolutionary change happens in sudden bursts, to me, what you are asking is whether ALL life that exists in the entire universe evolves in sudden bursts. The way things happen on the earth is very similar to the way things happen in many other places of the universe but there are so many other things that are beyond your ability to even imagine.

You say we simply can't know the truth? But we can and we will, you're just not ready for it yet.

 

[McBell]

The way things happen on the earth is very similar to the way things happen in many other places of the universe ...

Source please.

You say we simply can't know the truth? But we can and we will, you're just not ready for it yet.

You have repeatedly demonstrated that you use the word "truth" in a manner not consistent with any one else.
Not even yourself.

So any and all "truth" claims made by you are essentially useless.

 

[Super Universe]

Source please.


You have repeatedly demonstrated that you use the word "truth" in a manner not consistent with any one else.
Not even yourself.

So any and all "truth" claims made by you are essentially useless.

Source please? No.

I have repeatedly demonstrated that I use the word truth in a manner not consistent with anyone else? Right, the atheists think it means logic when it doesn't. You can't change the meaning of words.

So any and all truth claims by me are useless? They're worth the same as any claim you've ever made.

 

[DavidFirth]

Okay. I think it's a shame that you have to agree that slavery and stoning people to death are moral actions because an old book says so.

I think it's a dangerous thing to willingly give up one's ability to reason and rationalize to the whims of an invisible deity taken from a book written by people who didn't know anything near as much as we now do about the world around us. Because then whatever this deity supposedly claims magically becomes moral. If God says murder is okay, then it is. If God says slavery is okay, then it is. No questions asked. Dashing babies' heads against rocks? Sure, that's moral! In fact, I fail to see how that's a system of morality at all If you're just doing what you're told, I don't see how you're even practicing morality in the first place.

So when you say the Bible illustrates "perfect morality" that's not really your opinion. You're just dictating what the Bible says about it's/God's morality, correct?

God is Holy.

Job 40

 

[Sapiens]

God is Holy.

Job 40

Circular reasoning.

 

[DavidFirth]

Circular reasoning.

Only if you don't believe in God is it circular. Otherwise there is no circular argument. So you must assume God does not exist in order to be able to assume the argument is circular.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

You say we simply can't know the truth? But we can and we will, you're just not ready for it yet.

Good thing we have people like you, who are so ready. Pfffft....

 

[SkepticThinker]

God is Holy.

Job 40

And you reply with even more circular reasoning.

I find your beliefs to be antithetical to the flourishing of human morality and reasoned thought.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Only if you don't believe in God is it circular. Otherwise there is no circular argument. So you must assume God does not exist in order to be able to assume the argument is circular.

Correction: Only if you don't believe in reason and logic, is it not circular.

 

[McBell]

Source please? No.

I have repeatedly demonstrated that I use the word truth in a manner not consistent with anyone else? Right, the atheists think it means logic when it doesn't. You can't change the meaning of words.

So any and all truth claims by me are useless? They're worth the same as any claim you've ever made.

So basically all you are going to do is repeat the same old same old hoping at some point some one buys the snake oil you are selling?

 

[McBell]

Only if you don't believe in God is it circular. Otherwise there is no circular argument. So you must assume God does not exist in order to be able to assume the argument is circular.

It is Circular Reasoning regardless of what you believe.
Beliefs do not magically make Circular Reasoning stop being Circular Reasoning.

 

[sayak83]

God is Holy.

Job 40

Actually Job 40 is an excellent reason to believe that Bible's God is unholy. No true God responds in such a childish fashion.

 

[McBell]

Actually Job 40 is an excellent reason to believe that Bible's God is unholy. No true God responds in such a childish fashion.

*bagpipes*

 

[sayak83]

*bagpipes*

God that throws a tantrum. Job is an absolute farce!