• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The creator did it.

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You know Hhr, Dennis Prager hit it on the head when he said that evidence should never upset a scientist. Secondly, "beginning" raises an unanswerable question to the atheist! This is why they avoid it like the plague! This is also why they always cop-out with, "well, we are not concerned with how life started, we only study how it changed over time through gene duplication and mutation.:confused::rolleyes: Gene duplication does nothing to increase information in the cell NOTHING! And, mutations are always downward, never upward. It's a double whammy and when you call them on it? What is their response? "You don't understand Evolution":D Dennis Prager also stated that if you give them evidence for design, which by the way, is so overwhelming in all we observe in our world from life forms to the perfectly ORDERED universe, they say "Oh no! Science can never argue for design!" Why not? It's exactly what science is discovering! And the more science is discovering, the more it points to a designer! So why keep kicking the goad of truth? As Dennis states, it is a fraud, atheist scientists do not go where the evidence dwells. They go where the evidence serves their atheism! Bottom line!
And this is exactly what we see here.;) So, their denial of an omnipotent and incomprehensibly intelligent mind behind all of the EVIDENCE in life structures and reproduction from the pre-Cambrian that's right in front of their face, they deny it!o_O:rolleyes: What more can you offer? They are completely blind to the truth of their own castigation! I have very little time to spend here. I'll check back in the next day or so, but dont spend too much time trying to help them with reason, logic, common sense or evidence for that matter, because they refuse the true meaning of these things. Did you ever notice that my original question of where did the massive information (substantiated by science) in the cell come from has not been answered in any meaningful way? You know why? Because only an incomprehensibly intelligent mind outside of our universe could possibly have created in the way it was done in six literal 24 hour days! Science knows nothing, proves nothing, that contradicts a six day creation, NOTHING! This should be a clue to the simplest of minds.o_O

Wow, such denial. Let's go over gene duplication and further mutation. When a gene is duplicated that could be claimed not to be "New information". But once that does occur and it has been observed many times, then that allows a process that originally was a very knotty problem for evolution to occur. The question wass how does a key gene undergo evolution? If a bad mutation occurs that gene will not function as it should and the organism will die. Gene duplication changes all of that . Gene duplication allows one copy to keep doing the essential work while the other is free to mutate and possibly create a new function.

And yes, by definition, when a gene duplicates and one gene mutates that is "New information". That gene is different from the old one, therefore good or bad it is new information. I am pretty sure that this obvious correction will have to be made many many times.
 

He has Risen!

JESUS IS LORD FOR HE HAS RISEN FROM THE DEAD
You know Hhr, Dennis Prager hit it on the head when he said that evidence should never upset a scientist. Secondly, "beginning" raises an unanswerable question to the atheist! This is why they avoid it like the plague! This is also why they always cop-out with, "well, we are not concerned with how life started, we only study how it changed over time through gene duplication and mutation.:confused::rolleyes: Gene duplication does nothing to increase information in the cell NOTHING! And, mutations are always downward, never upward. It's a double whammy and when you call them on it? What is their response? "You don't understand Evolution":D Dennis Prager also stated that if you give them evidence for design, which by the way, is so overwhelming in all we observe in our world from life forms to the perfectly ORDERED universe, they say "Oh no! Science can never argue for design!" Why not? It's exactly what science is discovering! And the more science is discovering, the more it points to a designer! So why keep kicking the goad of truth? As Dennis states, it is a fraud, atheist scientists do not go where the evidence dwells. They go where the evidence serves their atheism! Bottom line!
And this is exactly what we see here.;) So, their denial of an omnipotent and incomprehensibly intelligent mind behind all of the EVIDENCE in life structures and reproduction from the pre-Cambrian that's right in front of their face, they deny it!o_O:rolleyes: What more can you offer? They are completely blind to the truth of their own castigation! I have very little time to spend here. I'll check back in the next day or so, but dont spend too much time trying to help them with reason, logic, common sense or evidence for that matter, because they refuse the true meaning of these things. Did you ever notice that my original question of where did the massive information (substantiated by science) in the cell come from has not been answered in any meaningful way? You know why? Because only an incomprehensibly intelligent mind outside of our universe could possibly have created in the way it was done in six literal 24 hour days! Science knows nothing, proves nothing, that contradicts a six day creation, NOTHING! This should be a clue to the simplest of minds.o_O
Bravo...Rapture man, I agree. The Bombardier Beetle shows much design with its dual chambers to keep the mixture of chemical from exploding prematurely. First how did it know to develop 2 different chemicals that when combined cause an explosion, Is it a chemist? Second, it had to know that the mixture of the two would cause it to self destruct so it has 2 separate chambers for storage, HOW DID IT KNOW the 2 chemicals cause such reactions? Third Just because a beetle has such chemicals within its body, How does it know to evolve a valve to shoot the mixture from? And so on...

Bombardier Beetle from Wiki...(Wiki includes evolution as a possible explaination)
Bombardier beetle - Wikipedia
Bombardier beetles are ground beetles (Carabidae) in the tribes Brachinini, Paussini, Ozaenini, or Metriini—more than 500 species altogether—which are most notable for the defense mechanism that gives them their name: when disturbed, they eject a hot noxious chemical spray from the tip of the abdomen with a popping sound.

The spray is produced from a reaction between two chemical compounds, hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide, which are stored in two reservoirs in the beetle's abdomen. When the aqueous solution of hydroquinones and hydrogen peroxide reaches the vestibule, catalysts facilitate the decomposition of the hydrogen peroxide and the oxidation of the hydroquinone.[1] Heat from the reaction brings the mixture to near the boiling point of water and produces gas that drives the ejection. The damage caused can be fatal to attacking insects. Some bombardier beetles can direct the spray in a wide range of directions.

The beetle's unusual defense mechanism is claimed by some creationists to be an example of what they call irreducible complexity,[2] though this is refuted by evolutionary biologists.

When the beetle feels threatened it opens a valve which allows the aqueous solution from the reservoir to reach the vestibule. The catalases lining the vestibule wall facilitate the decomposition of hydrogen peroxide into oxygen gas and water. The reaction proceeds as follows:

2 H 2 O 2 ( a q ) ⟶ 2 H 2 O ( l ) + O 2 ( g ) {\displaystyle 2H_{2}O_{2(aq)}\longrightarrow 2H_{2}O_{(l)}+O_{2(g)}}
595ab784ddce8622c7b40f29658c9f2bcb33e4ba

The peroxidase enzymes facilitate the oxidation of the hydroquinones into p-quinone, as shown in the reaction below:

C 6 H 4 ( O H ) 2 ( a q ) ⟶ C 6 H 4 O 2 ( a q ) + H 2 ( g ) {\displaystyle C_{6}H_{4}(OH)_{2(aq)}\longrightarrow C_{6}H_{4}O_{2(aq)}+H_{2(g)}}
02e3695761b7e2c7123d62b9eebabee4ea8e69b7

The net reaction is:

C 6 H 4 ( O H ) 2 ( a q ) + H 2 O 2 ( a q ) ⟶ C 6 H 4 O 2 ( a q ) + 2 H 2 O ( l ) {\displaystyle C_{6}H_{4}(OH)_{2(aq)}+H_{2}O_{2(aq)}\longrightarrow C_{6}H_{4}O_{2(aq)}+2H_{2}O_{(l)}}
991c601cf94e70b24a7dfe828e59d9f9165d169a


Evolution of the defense mechanism
The full evolutionary history of the beetle's unique defense mechanism is unknown, but biologists have shown that the system could have evolved from defenses found in other beetles in incremental steps by natural selection.[9][10] Specifically, quinone chemicals are a precursor to sclerotin, a brownish substance produced by beetles and other insects to harden their exoskeleton.[11] Some beetles additionally store excess foul-smelling quinones, including hydroquinone, in small sacs below their skin as a natural deterrent against predators—all carabid beetles have this sort of arrangement. Some beetles additionally mix hydrogen peroxide, a common by-product of the metabolism of cells, in with the hydroquinone; some of the catalases that exist in most cells make the process more efficient. The chemical reaction produces heat and pressure, and some beetles exploit the latter to push out the chemicals onto the skin; this is the case in the beetle Metrius contractus, which produces a foamy discharge when attacked.[12] In the bombardier beetle, the muscles that prevent leakage from the reservoir additionally developed a valve permitting more controlled discharge of the poison and an elongated abdomen to permit better control over the direction of discharge.[9][10]

The unique combination of features of the bombardier beetle's defense mechanism—strongly exothermic reactions, boiling-hot fluids, and explosive release—has been claimed by creationists and proponents of intelligent design to be an example of irreducible complexity.[2] Biologists such as the taxonomist Mark Isaak note however that step-by-step evolution of the mechanism could readily have occurred.[
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Bravo...Rapture man, I agree. The Bombardier Beetle shows much design with its dual chambers to keep the mixture of chemical from exploding prematurely. First how did it know to develop 2 different chemicals that when combined cause an explosion, Is it a chemist? Second, it had to know that the mixture of the two would cause it to self destruct, HOW DID IT KNOW? Third Just because a beetle has such chemicals within its body, How does it know to evolve a valve to shoot the mixture from? And so on...

Bombardier Beetle from Wiki...(Wiki includes evolution as a possible explaination)
Bombardier beetle - Wikipedia
Bombardier beetles are ground beetles (Carabidae) in the tribes Brachinini, Paussini, Ozaenini, or Metriini—more than 500 species altogether—which are most notable for the defense mechanism that gives them their name: when disturbed, they eject a hot noxious chemical spray from the tip of the abdomen with a popping sound.

The spray is produced from a reaction between two chemical compounds, hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide, which are stored in two reservoirs in the beetle's abdomen. When the aqueous solution of hydroquinones and hydrogen peroxide reaches the vestibule, catalysts facilitate the decomposition of the hydrogen peroxide and the oxidation of the hydroquinone.[1] Heat from the reaction brings the mixture to near the boiling point of water and produces gas that drives the ejection. The damage caused can be fatal to attacking insects. Some bombardier beetles can direct the spray in a wide range of directions.

The beetle's unusual defense mechanism is claimed by some creationists to be an example of what they call irreducible complexity,[2] though this is refuted by evolutionary biologists.

When the beetle feels threatened it opens a valve which allows the aqueous solution from the reservoir to reach the vestibule. The catalases lining the vestibule wall facilitate the decomposition of hydrogen peroxide into oxygen gas and water. The reaction proceeds as follows:

2 H 2 O 2 ( a q ) ⟶ 2 H 2 O ( l ) + O 2 ( g ) {\displaystyle 2H_{2}O_{2(aq)}\longrightarrow 2H_{2}O_{(l)}+O_{2(g)}}
595ab784ddce8622c7b40f29658c9f2bcb33e4ba

The peroxidase enzymes facilitate the oxidation of the hydroquinones into p-quinone, as shown in the reaction below:

C 6 H 4 ( O H ) 2 ( a q ) ⟶ C 6 H 4 O 2 ( a q ) + H 2 ( g ) {\displaystyle C_{6}H_{4}(OH)_{2(aq)}\longrightarrow C_{6}H_{4}O_{2(aq)}+H_{2(g)}}
02e3695761b7e2c7123d62b9eebabee4ea8e69b7

The net reaction is:

C 6 H 4 ( O H ) 2 ( a q ) + H 2 O 2 ( a q ) ⟶ C 6 H 4 O 2 ( a q ) + 2 H 2 O ( l ) {\displaystyle C_{6}H_{4}(OH)_{2(aq)}+H_{2}O_{2(aq)}\longrightarrow C_{6}H_{4}O_{2(aq)}+2H_{2}O_{(l)}}
991c601cf94e70b24a7dfe828e59d9f9165d169a


Evolution of the defense mechanism
The full evolutionary history of the beetle's unique defense mechanism is unknown, but biologists have shown that the system could have evolved from defenses found in other beetles in incremental steps by natural selection.[9][10] Specifically, quinone chemicals are a precursor to sclerotin, a brownish substance produced by beetles and other insects to harden their exoskeleton.[11] Some beetles additionally store excess foul-smelling quinones, including hydroquinone, in small sacs below their skin as a natural deterrent against predators—all carabid beetles have this sort of arrangement. Some beetles additionally mix hydrogen peroxide, a common by-product of the metabolism of cells, in with the hydroquinone; some of the catalases that exist in most cells make the process more efficient. The chemical reaction produces heat and pressure, and some beetles exploit the latter to push out the chemicals onto the skin; this is the case in the beetle Metrius contractus, which produces a foamy discharge when attacked.[12] In the bombardier beetle, the muscles that prevent leakage from the reservoir additionally developed a valve permitting more controlled discharge of the poison and an elongated abdomen to permit better control over the direction of discharge.[9][10]

The unique combination of features of the bombardier beetle's defense mechanism—strongly exothermic reactions, boiling-hot fluids, and explosive release—has been claimed by creationists and proponents of intelligent design to be an example of irreducible complexity.[2] Biologists such as the taxonomist Mark Isaak note however that step-by-step evolution of the mechanism could readily have occurred.[
Wait a second, you have an explanation of how the bombardier beetle may have naturally evolved and yet claim "Intelligent Design"o_O:confused:
 

ecco

Veteran Member
...
Why do I agree with a Creator who worked as an architect, engineer and master craftsman to make this universe?
If you really looked at what He did you would not find a Master Craftsman.

His creations disobeyed Him. Even though Your Omniscient Master Craftsman knew beforehand that His creations would disobey Him.

Not long thereafter, your Master Craftsman was so upset about how things were unfolding that He killed (almost) everyone and tried to start over.

That didn't work out too well and your Master Craftsman had to send part of Himself to earth to have
facetime with the folks and deliver a message: Be good and you'll end up in Heaven. That's not working out too well either.

As a last resort, He had to threaten to come back to earth and again kill almost everyone.

Master Craftsman? It's more like a four-year-old who gets angry when he can't make a three high stock of wooden blocks.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Secondly, "beginning" raises an unanswerable question to the atheist! This is why they avoid it like the plague! This is also why they always cop-out with, "well, we are not concerned with how life started, we only study how it changed over time through gene duplication and mutation.

RE:
"well, we are not concerned with how life started"​
If that is something that atheists always say, then it should be easy for you to provide a reliable source for this quote.

Are you unaware that there are many scientists, theists and atheists, who are working to understand how abiogenesis works? Or is it that you are aware and just intentionally misstate the truth to further your agenda?
 

ecco

Veteran Member
...created in the way it was done in six literal 24 hour days! Science knows nothing, proves nothing, that contradicts a six day creation, NOTHING! This should be a clue to the simplest of minds.

I guess the many old-earth Creationists are among those simple minds who don't have a clue.
 

He has Risen!

JESUS IS LORD FOR HE HAS RISEN FROM THE DEAD
If you really looked at what He did you would not find a Master Craftsman.

His creations disobeyed Him. Even though Your Omniscient Master Craftsman knew beforehand that His creations would disobey Him.

Not long thereafter, your Master Craftsman was so upset about how things were unfolding that He killed (almost) everyone and tried to start over.

That didn't work out too well and your Master Craftsman had to send part of Himself to earth to have
facetime with the folks and deliver a message: Be good and you'll end up in Heaven. That's not working out too well either.

As a last resort, He had to threaten to come back to earth and again kill almost everyone.

Master Craftsman? It's more like a four-year-old who gets angry when he can't make a three high stock of wooden blocks.
OK...all righty then.:thumbsdown:
 

He has Risen!

JESUS IS LORD FOR HE HAS RISEN FROM THE DEAD
Wait a second, you have an explanation of how the bombardier beetle may have naturally evolved and yet claim "Intelligent Design"o_O:confused:
I claim Intelligent Design is a much better way to understand the world in which we live. I understand evolution deals with living things evolving through natural selection and mutation, but that is not answering the bombardier beetle dilemma. Reread my post #402...think about what I posted...respond accordingly.
 
Last edited:

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I claim Intelligent Design is a much better way to understand the world in which we live. I understand evolution deals with living things evolving through natural selection and mutation, but that is not answering the bombardier beetle dilemma. Reread my post...think about what I posted...respond accordingly.
Why believe in intelligent design? There is no scientific evidence for the concept? Why are magic to a topic that can be explained without it? The bombardier beetle evolution does not produce a dilemma.
 

Truly Enlightened

Well-Known Member
I agree with the person and the title of this Thread,
The Creator did it.

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by A REAL CHRISTIAN, Jan 20, 2019.

Why do I agree with a Creator who worked as an architect, engineer and master craftsman to make this universe? Because of the Design that it exhibits. When an archeologist comes across the ruins of an ancient civilization and finds tools, pottery and weapons he knows that intelligent people did this and not forces of nature. He does not dismiss the obvious design implication just because he does not know who did it, rather his rational, reasonable, scientific and logical mind tells him someone with intelligence produced these remains.


Is it possible that you can point to something that is not inanimate, and created by an intelligent mind? If you are talking about the 99.999% of past living failures, then I would hold off on assigning anyone credit for being intelligent.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
If you really looked at what He did you would not find a Master Craftsman.

His creations disobeyed Him. Even though Your Omniscient Master Craftsman knew beforehand that His creations would disobey Him.

Not long thereafter, your Master Craftsman was so upset about how things were unfolding that He killed (almost) everyone and tried to start over.

That didn't work out too well and your Master Craftsman had to send part of Himself to earth to have
facetime with the folks and deliver a message: Be good and you'll end up in Heaven. That's not working out too well either.

As a last resort, He had to threaten to come back to earth and again kill almost everyone.

Master Craftsman? It's more like a four-year-old who gets angry when he can't make a three high stock of wooden blocks.
OK...all righty then.:thumbsdown:

I see that you realized you could not dispute anything I wrote.
 

Rapture Era

Active Member
RE:
"well, we are not concerned with how life started"​
If that is something that atheists always say, then it should be easy for you to provide a reliable source for this quote.

Are you unaware that there are many scientists, theists and atheists, who are working to understand how abiogenesis works? Or is it that you are aware and just intentionally misstate the truth to further your agenda?
Would you say this is correct?
MISCONCEPTION: Evolution is a theory about the origin of life.

CORRECTION: Evolutionary theory does encompass ideas and evidence regarding life's origins (e.g., whether or not it happened near a deep-sea vent, which organic molecules came first, etc.), but this is not the central focus of evolutionary theory. Most of evolutionary biology deals with how life changed after its origin. Regardless of how life started, afterwards it branched and diversified, and most studies of evolution are focused on those processes.
 

Rapture Era

Active Member
Bravo...Rapture man, I agree. The Bombardier Beetle shows much design with its dual chambers to keep the mixture of chemical from exploding prematurely. First how did it know to develop 2 different chemicals that when combined cause an explosion, Is it a chemist? Second, it had to know that the mixture of the two would cause it to self destruct so it has 2 separate chambers for storage, HOW DID IT KNOW the 2 chemicals cause such reactions? Third Just because a beetle has such chemicals within its body, How does it know to evolve a valve to shoot the mixture from? And so on...

Bombardier Beetle from Wiki...(Wiki includes evolution as a possible explaination)
Bombardier beetle - Wikipedia
Bombardier beetles are ground beetles (Carabidae) in the tribes Brachinini, Paussini, Ozaenini, or Metriini—more than 500 species altogether—which are most notable for the defense mechanism that gives them their name: when disturbed, they eject a hot noxious chemical spray from the tip of the abdomen with a popping sound.

The spray is produced from a reaction between two chemical compounds, hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide, which are stored in two reservoirs in the beetle's abdomen. When the aqueous solution of hydroquinones and hydrogen peroxide reaches the vestibule, catalysts facilitate the decomposition of the hydrogen peroxide and the oxidation of the hydroquinone.[1] Heat from the reaction brings the mixture to near the boiling point of water and produces gas that drives the ejection. The damage caused can be fatal to attacking insects. Some bombardier beetles can direct the spray in a wide range of directions.

The beetle's unusual defense mechanism is claimed by some creationists to be an example of what they call irreducible complexity,[2] though this is refuted by evolutionary biologists.

When the beetle feels threatened it opens a valve which allows the aqueous solution from the reservoir to reach the vestibule. The catalases lining the vestibule wall facilitate the decomposition of hydrogen peroxide into oxygen gas and water. The reaction proceeds as follows:

2 H 2 O 2 ( a q ) ⟶ 2 H 2 O ( l ) + O 2 ( g ) {\displaystyle 2H_{2}O_{2(aq)}\longrightarrow 2H_{2}O_{(l)}+O_{2(g)}}
595ab784ddce8622c7b40f29658c9f2bcb33e4ba

The peroxidase enzymes facilitate the oxidation of the hydroquinones into p-quinone, as shown in the reaction below:

C 6 H 4 ( O H ) 2 ( a q ) ⟶ C 6 H 4 O 2 ( a q ) + H 2 ( g ) {\displaystyle C_{6}H_{4}(OH)_{2(aq)}\longrightarrow C_{6}H_{4}O_{2(aq)}+H_{2(g)}}
02e3695761b7e2c7123d62b9eebabee4ea8e69b7

The net reaction is:

C 6 H 4 ( O H ) 2 ( a q ) + H 2 O 2 ( a q ) ⟶ C 6 H 4 O 2 ( a q ) + 2 H 2 O ( l ) {\displaystyle C_{6}H_{4}(OH)_{2(aq)}+H_{2}O_{2(aq)}\longrightarrow C_{6}H_{4}O_{2(aq)}+2H_{2}O_{(l)}}
991c601cf94e70b24a7dfe828e59d9f9165d169a


Evolution of the defense mechanism
The full evolutionary history of the beetle's unique defense mechanism is unknown, but biologists have shown that the system could have evolved from defenses found in other beetles in incremental steps by natural selection.[9][10] Specifically, quinone chemicals are a precursor to sclerotin, a brownish substance produced by beetles and other insects to harden their exoskeleton.[11] Some beetles additionally store excess foul-smelling quinones, including hydroquinone, in small sacs below their skin as a natural deterrent against predators—all carabid beetles have this sort of arrangement. Some beetles additionally mix hydrogen peroxide, a common by-product of the metabolism of cells, in with the hydroquinone; some of the catalases that exist in most cells make the process more efficient. The chemical reaction produces heat and pressure, and some beetles exploit the latter to push out the chemicals onto the skin; this is the case in the beetle Metrius contractus, which produces a foamy discharge when attacked.[12] In the bombardier beetle, the muscles that prevent leakage from the reservoir additionally developed a valve permitting more controlled discharge of the poison and an elongated abdomen to permit better control over the direction of discharge.[9][10]

The unique combination of features of the bombardier beetle's defense mechanism—strongly exothermic reactions, boiling-hot fluids, and explosive release—has been claimed by creationists and proponents of intelligent design to be an example of irreducible complexity.[2] Biologists such as the taxonomist Mark Isaak note however that step-by-step evolution of the mechanism could readily have occurred.[
Hhr, I understand you giving Wikipedia's explanation. I also understand the the fact that the Bombardier Beetle could not have developed by evolutionary processes without blowing itself up! Indeed, how did the information in the genetics come about by some malfunction junction process not only for this beetle to exist, but for it to reproduce! Like I told you before, don't waist your time with these people, they don't want to know the truth about anything! They only want to (as Dennis Prager says) use evidence to serve their atheism! Otherwise they would welcome a healthy discussion of and with common sense! I was speaking to a kinesiology student today who knows an atheist who converted to Christianity. He said this Atheist confessed that he knew the truth that Creation is a better explanation for origins which falls right in line with the scripture once again corroborating Romans 1:18-20 which says: 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, so that men are without excuse.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Hhr, I understand you giving Wikipedia's explanation. I also understand the the fact that the Bombardier Beetle could not have developed by evolutionary processes without blowing itself up! Indeed, how did the information in the genetics come about by some malfunction junction process not only for this beetle to exist, but for it to reproduce! Like I told you before, don't waist your time with these people, they don't want to know the truth about anything! They only want to (as Dennis Prager says) use evidence to serve their atheism! Otherwise they would welcome a healthy discussion of and with common sense! I was speaking to a kinesiology student today who knows an atheist who converted to Christianity. He said this Atheist confessed that he knew the truth that Creation is a better explanation for origins which falls right in line with the scripture once again corroborating Romans 1:18-20 which says: 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, so that men are without excuse.
Here is a more complete article on how the bombardier beetle evolved. Please note they even list an existing transitional form:

Bombardier Beetles and the Argument of Design

You have been employing an argument from ignorance, that is a logical fallacy.
 

Rapture Era

Active Member
Here is a more complete article on how the bombardier beetle evolved. Please note they even list an existing transitional form:

Bombardier Beetles and the Argument of Design

You have been employing an argument from ignorance, that is a logical fallacy.
You know, its funny, after reading that article, you would be hard pressed to explain this marvelous creature, all of it's genetic properties and its ability to reproduce from an evolutionary process of mindless, purposelessness, matter! I think the ignorance in biological organisms is on your side not ours!:D You have nothing to produce as usual for the origin of this magnificent life form but, evolution did it:rolleyes:! Nice try!:D Why dont you just give up while you're behind!:D
BTW, this is the perfect example of design!;) But you dont see ito_O What does this say about you?:rolleyes:o_O:confused:
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You know, its funny, after reading that article, you would be hard pressed to explain this marvelous creature, all of it's genetic properties and its ability to reproduce from an evolutionary process of mindless, purposelessness, matter! I think the ignorance in biological organisms is on your side not ours!:D You have nothing to produce as usual for the origin of this magnificent life form but, evolution did it:rolleyes:! Nice try!:D Why dont you just give up while you're behind!:D
BTW, this is the perfect example of design!;) But you dont see ito_O What does this say about you?:rolleyes:o_O:confused:
If you could not understand it why didn't you say so?
 

Rapture Era

Active Member
Wow, such denial. Let's go over gene duplication and further mutation. When a gene is duplicated that could be claimed not to be "New information". But once that does occur and it has been observed many times, then that allows a process that originally was a very knotty problem for evolution to occur. The question wass how does a key gene undergo evolution? If a bad mutation occurs that gene will not function as it should and the organism will die. Gene duplication changes all of that . Gene duplication allows one copy to keep doing the essential work while the other is free to mutate and possibly create a new function.

And yes, by definition, when a gene duplicates and one gene mutates that is "New information". That gene is different from the old one, therefore good or bad it is new information. I am pretty sure that this obvious correction will have to be made many many times.
There you go! "could be" "possibly" "Gene duplication allows one copy to keep doing the essential work while the other is free to mutate and possibly create a new function." You are so duped! "While the other is free to mutate and possibly create a new function? You cant be serious and say this with a straight face right?:confused::D You know nothing of genetics or you wouldn't make such a preposterous statement like this! Whatever!:rolleyes:
 
Top