The Cross, Lets talk about the cross.

[onmybelief]

Not only is the cross a symbol the death of Christ but also His life and resurrection. It is a constant reminder of God's ever presence on earth and how much He loves us.

 

[Evandr2]

Not only is the cross a symbol the death of Christ but also His life and resurrection. It is a constant reminder of God's ever presence on earth and how much He loves us.

I believe what you say is the position of the vast majority of those who look to the cross as a reminder to serve the Lord and I certainly appreciate that. It speaks well of their intent. I would rather see a person wear a cross around their neck than some of the strange, offensive, or down right stupid things some people adorn themselves with.

I have no problem with the symbol of an empty cross. It is the morbid depictions of Jesus hanging, bleeding, suffering, and dying, that some religions seem to focus so intently on, through their art and symbolism, that I take such a strong opposition to.

I mean no disrespect for the RCC and especially not toward the humble and devoted leader of so many as is the Pontiff, but when I see the Pope carrying a staff with a crucifix attached to the top of it, having a figure of a tortured and dead body affixed to it representing Jesus Christ, I have to hang my head in dismay for this is surely not how the Lord wants us to think of Him.

Vandr

 

[Scott1]

I realize that the cross is just a symbol but I think is a bit much to constantly be reminded about His death and not His life.

I'm sorry you find this Christian practice to be wrong... but this has happened for 2,000 years:

......for we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness. (cf. 1 Cor 1:23)

Peace in Christ,
Scott

 

[Katzpur]

I'm sorry you find this Christian practice to be wrong... but this has happened for 2,000 years

Actually, 1700 years would be closer to accurate. The cross was not openly used as a Christian symbol for roughly three hundred years after Christ's resurrection. In fact, it did not even appear to be used by the Vatican until the middle of the fifth century. Three hundred years may not sound like a very long time, but it's twelve generations. The Apostles and personal friends of Jesus certainly did not wear or display replicas of the cross. I'm not trying to say that it's wrong for you to use a cross or crucifix in your worship, but it is a later development and not one that was part of the ancient Church.

 

[Scott1]

Actually, 1700 years would be closer to accurate.

I'm not talking about wearing a symbol... I'm talking about preaching about the crucified Christ. Not speaking of you personally, of course, but there are several people (some on this thread I would guess) that would prefer not to think about all that "yucky stuff" on the cross.... but I can assure you that Apostles and personal friends of Jesus certainly did focus on the passion and death of our Lord... I plan to continue to do the same.

Love
S

 

[Katzpur]

I'm not talking about wearing a symbol... I'm talking about preaching about the crucified Christ. Not speaking of you personally, of course, but there are several people (some on this thread I would guess) that would prefer not to think about all that "yucky stuff" on the cross.... but I can assure you that Apostles and personal friends of Jesus certainly did focus on the passion and death of our Lord... I plan to continue to do the same.

Love
S

Hey, Scott. I'm also convinced that Christ's Apostles remembered His passion and death every day of their lives. I don't think anybody is trying to argue otherwise, or is saying that we shouldn't continue to do so today. My guess is that Evandr's OP was more along a defensive line than an offensive one. It's difficult being told that you're not a Christian just because you don't use a particular symbol as part of your worship. We're not accustomed to seeing crucifixes in our churches, and they really do make us uncomfortable. If they help you in your worship, fine. I just don't believe that the cross -- as a symbol of Christianity -- was used until quite some time after Christ's death. Therefore, its use today should not be considered to be a prerequisite for someone to be considered a Christian -- which I know you've never done.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Colossians 6:12 Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13 Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. 14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation. 16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God. NIV

Matthew 10:37 "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it." NIV

Just what is YOUR cross made of? Is it a plastic, wood or gold affair that swings neatly from your neck? Perhaps it graces your wall or looms largely outside. How stained is your cross from your own personal sacrifices?

Jesus' cross was not just made of lumber. It was made of a daily sacrifice. It was made of blood, sweat and tears shed every day as he ministered to those around him. He lived his life for others and he calls us to do the very same.

Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. 2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. NIV

As I have said before, the problem with living sacrifices is that they keep crawling off of the alter. Find your cross: what you are supposed to be sacrificed for. PICK IT UP! Don't be fearful, for Jesus will help you just as he was helped. Love someone today and show that you ARE Jesus' disciple.

 

[Scott1]

Therefore, its use today should not be considered to be a prerequisite for someone to be considered a Christian -- which I know you've never done.

Agreed... but I was under the impression that the OP implied that those of us who do have a crucifix in our Church are "less than" Christian or in error somehow... if it was just an innocent observation, than so be it.

The Passion, Death, and Resurrection.... ALL THREE----> are what makes us all Christians.... I just hope however "uncomfortable" the cross makes ya'll, you don't ever forget how he suffered for each and every one of our sins.

Love,
S

 

[Katzpur]

The Passion, Death, and Resurrection.... ALL THREE----> are what makes us all Christians.... I just hope however "uncomfortable" the cross makes ya'll, you don't ever forget how he suffered for each and every one of our sins.

I can assure you, we do try to keep that in mind every day of our lives, as I know you do.

 

[Scott1]

I can assure you, we do try to keep that in mind every day of our lives, as I know you do.

Amen and amen, little sister. Just remember the crucifix is just a symbol... it has no supernatural powers... it is part of our personal relationship with our Lord and that aspect, so well explained by NetDoc, is what is most important.

The crucifix is a physical reminder of an internal awareness.... a cross on the wall, or special underpants (for example )... however we as Christians get closer to the Lord is what matters.

Nice chatting with you dear one.
S

 

[open_mind]

i need a christian to answer that please

no doubt christians take their religion from Jesus as he is the origin of Christianity
a question please:
did Jesus ask christians to use the cross as a holy symbol?

if NO,then why does the cross act as a clear title for christianity all over the world,i mean why do christians follow a basic not ordered by their lord?

if YES,HOW???,the cross was Jesus' end

another question
did Jesus' companions use the cross in their prayers during Jesus' life with them??

 

[open_mind]

OK
its two weeks now and no answer appeared for my questions even though i posted them twice
anyways,if u refuse to answer,then try asking yourselves then keep the answer,but plz be honest with yourselves.

 

[Katzpur]

no doubt christians take their religion from Jesus as he is the origin of Christianity
a question please:
did Jesus ask christians to use the cross as a holy symbol?

No.

if NO

,then why does the cross act as a clear title for christianity all over the world,i mean why do christians follow a basic not ordered by their lord?

I'm a Christian and the cross is not in any way a symbol of my faith in Christ.

another question

did Jesus' companions use the cross in their prayers during Jesus' life with them??

Well, I wasn't there, but I highly doubt it.

 

[Evandr2]

.... but I can assure you that Apostles and personal friends of Jesus certainly did focus on the passion and death of our Lord... I plan to continue to do the same.

Love
S

That is commendable Scott1, you have strength of character and that is never a bad thing. As I have stated in the past, I have no problem with symbolism, the cross included.


As to your statement about the Apostles and personal friends of Jesus focusing on His crucifixion, I am quite sure they did - with great horror, pain, and depression. I am sure that had one of them walked into a room and found a deciple praying before a cross, they would have been sorely bewildered at this strange practice and anxiously wanting to rebuke whoever started it.


I do believe that physical symbolism can be taken a bit too far as to overshadow the symbolism of how we live. I have had several tell me that looking upon the cross engenders feelings of reverence and a compassion for the Lord. That too is a good thing but at the same time it can steal the focus away from the more important things in our life such as living after the manner of Christ not just meditating on it.

There are a great many traditions upon which the authority of Jesus Christ and the Holy Priesthood do not depend. Carrying around a cross was (and is) one of them. It is also interesting to note that the ancient prophets, those before Christ and for the apostles after Him, had no such symbolism nor did they have any Bible yet they fared just fine in the sight of God.

I guess my point is that too many people believe that their spirituality is proportionate to the number of religious "symbols" they surround themselves with, how elaborately they fill their churches, and how magnificently their leaders can adorn themselves. All that is just not important and can detract a great deal from a person's effectiveness at focusing on how well they keep the commandments and seek to understand the will of the Lord.

In fact, if all that symbolism and grandeur is what it takes to bring to a person's thought and countenance the love of the Lord and the feeling of reverence toward His sacrifice for us, then something is amiss in that person’s relationship with the Lord and their sensitivity to the Holy Ghost.

The crucifix does not engender positive feelings in everybody, not because they do not love the Lord but because it is depressing to have His suffering and death thrown up in their faces every time they turn around, that borders on irreverence. They would rather feel the joy of being reminded that He lives.

It is too important that we understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ in its simplicity and purity.


Any time something is not necessary and carries the possibility of being counter-productive to the goal then it should be abandoned.


Vandr

 

[SunMessenger]

I found this on the web and it is a clear message of what Jesus Stands For Today and Everyday... Click Here To See... http://www.jesus.youaremighty.com/

or post on your web browser, wait, sitback and Praise The LORD !!! Amen...:shout

 

[Evandr2]

I found this on the web and it is a clear message of what Jesus Stands For Today and Everyday... Click Here To See... http://www.jesus.youaremighty.com/

or post on your web browser, wait, sitback and Praise The LORD !!! Amen...:shout

That was pretty intense, I enjoyed it.

Vandr

 

[roli]

Luke 9:23 Then He said to them all, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross *daily, and follow Me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. 25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?

Oh the cross,what a reminder of not only his death, but the fact that I am to pick up my own cross daily and die to self,my lusts,wants, desires,pleasures,indulgences of the fleshly desires.
This is a prerequisite to follow Christ,"If anyone will come after me" that to me sounds pretty conditional.
I therefore consider the cross not necessarily a symbol that must be worn to show adherence,or obedience but more credence given to the willingness of a life layed down to the point of death in order to serve Jesus.
That will show in his love towards others
That is the whole basis of being a Christian,you must die to live and in order to live you must die.

 

[Evandr2]

Luke 9:23 Then He said to them all, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross *daily, and follow Me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. 25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?

Oh the cross,what a reminder of not only his death, but the fact that I am to pick up my own cross daily and die to self,my lusts,wants, desires,pleasures,indulgences of the fleshly desires.
This is a prerequisite to follow Christ,"If anyone will come after me" that to me sounds pretty conditional.
I therefore consider the cross not necessarily a symbol that must be worn to show adherence,or obedience but more credence given to the willingness of a life layed down to the point of death in order to serve Jesus.
That will show in his love towards others
That is the whole basis of being a Christian,you must die to live and in order to live you must die.

I agree but that is only half the story. Discouragement and failure would quickly engulf a person if life were simply meant to be burdened with crosses of trial and difficulty.

When Jesus said "take up your cross" He simply meant to stand against temptation, all temptation, and keep His commandments no matter what is asked of you, even everything you have. Death is not so frightening a thought if you understand who you are, where you came from, why you are here, and where you are going.

I believe that "Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy." The Lord wants us to be happy in this life. In keeping His commandments their is Joy! Wickedness never was, and never will be happiness. By the same token, constantly dwelling on the crosses we must bear can be a real roadblock on the path to happiness.

Keeping in mind that I must be willing to sacrifice all that I have to serve the Lord is a good thing but holding my head up and seeking for the joys in life is also a good thing.

The realization that I am a spiritual son of God is plenty of reminder of my duties. I am reminded when I pray, when I go to church, when I read and contemplate the scriptures, and especially when I take the Sacrament. I don't feel the need to surround myself with reminders that Christ died but that he lives and loves me enough to do what He did that I might live in His presence forever.

Let me assure you that I hold no reason to believe that your endearment to the cross is a bad thing. It is a personal choice and I respect you for it but you might want to try to focus more on the Lord' plan of happiness.

Vandr