The debate of free will

[bobhikes]

Because your mind operates within a more-or-less deterministic system.

If you are informed that someone is in need of help, you are ideally prompted to assist. The information that was given to you caused you to take action. How could non-deterministic behaviour improve such decision-making?

A decision is a choice. An action is not a decision. Non-deterministic behaviour allows for decisions, determinism does not. With determinism you only think you are making the decision, it is clearly an action that you can't stop caused by previous events.

In Determinism a rock slides down a hill because of all the previous events that caused it.

The same is with you. You help the person because of all the events up to that point force you to help the person. Like the rock you are unable to stop the slide.

This is Determinism, which is why you can believe it all you want it won't help you in life. What is determined to happen will happen no matter what. You can no more change my path than I can change yours.

This alone is why Free will is true. Without free will life does not matter, we are just cogs in a big machine clicking along unable to change direction or stop.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

A decision is a choice. An action is not a decision. Non-deterministic behaviour allows for decisions, determinism does not.

Yeah, that isn't true. You appear to be confusing determinism with fatalism; determinism is simply the thesis that everything is sufficiently determined by antecedent causes. Fatalism is the thesis that what happens is inevitable, and couldn't be otherwise. The difference may be subtle, but it is very important-

Fatalism: nothing can change what will happen, it is inevitable
Determinist: everything can change, in principle, provided that the change in cause is sufficient to affect the change in result

This is Determinism, which is why you can believe it all you want it won't help you in life. What is determined to happen will happen no matter what. You can no more change my path than I can change yours.

This alone is why Free will is true. Without free will life does not matter, we are just cogs in a big machine clicking along unable to change direction or stop.

No, this is fatalism, not determinism, and in any case, you have NOT given a reason why free will must exist- rather, you've given a reason why you want it to. It is entirely possible "we are just cogs in a big machine clicking along unable to change direction or stop"- maybe we don't like it, but that doesn't mean it couldn't nevertheless be true.

 

[bobhikes]

Yeah, that isn't true. You appear to be confusing determinism with fatalism; determinism is simply the thesis that everything is sufficiently determined by antecedent causes. Fatalism is the thesis that what happens is inevitable, and couldn't be otherwise. The difference may be subtle, but it is very important-

Fatalism: nothing can change what will happen, it is inevitable
Determinist: everything can change, in principle, provided that the change in cause is sufficient to affect the change in result


No, this is fatalism, not determinism, and in any case, you have NOT given a reason why free will must exist- rather, you've given a reason why you want it to. It is entirely possible "we are just cogs in a big machine clicking along unable to change direction or stop"- maybe we don't like it, but that doesn't mean it couldn't nevertheless be true.

Give to me an example of a change in cause that is sufficient to affect the change in result and is not the result of free choice or true randomness. Unless you can present one it is a useless statement.

I didn't write it properly, You can no more change your path then I can change yours. This alone proves free will.

If you believe you can change me or as you say can change the result and still be without free will, show me an example.

 

[Falvlun]

Yeah, that isn't true. You appear to be confusing determinism with fatalism; determinism is simply the thesis that everything is sufficiently determined by antecedent causes. Fatalism is the thesis that what happens is inevitable, and couldn't be otherwise. The difference may be subtle, but it is very important-

Fatalism: nothing can change what will happen, it is inevitable
Determinist: everything can change, in principle, provided that the change in cause is sufficient to affect the change in result

To be honest, I cannot see the practical difference between the two.