The difference between Human and animal

[Kapalika]

For instance, you are assuming the elephants are "mourning' their dead. There is absolutely no way to determine that this action to equates to human mourning.

I remember a long time ago I watched a documentary on elephants and in part of it the elephants journeyed to a spot and cry and whine over the bones of a long dead elephant.

There has also been experiments where people have played recordings of dead elephants that elephants knew when they were alive and the elephants freaked out and herded the baby elephants and acted terrified.

So I'd say there is evidence that not only do elephants feel empathy and are aware of other beings, but also have a concept of death and know that dead things stay dead.

 

[metis]

Jane Goodall witnesses a fairly young chimp in the wild who grieved for so long over the death of his mother that he literally died of starvation.

 

[Riverwolf]

Jane Goodall witnesses a fairly young chimp in the wild who grieved for so long over the death of his mother that he literally died of starvation.

Then again, chimps and bonobos are so much like humans that some have even proposed bringing them under the "homo" genus, which would make them scientifically human. (I'm not familiar enough on chimp biology to have an opinion either way.)

There's also that bonobo who can play Pac-Man.

 

[metis]

Then again, chimps and bonobos are so much like humans that some have even proposed bringing them under the "homo" genus, which would make them scientifically human. (I'm not familiar enough on chimp biology to have an opinion either way.)

There's also that bonobo who can play Pac-Man.

I think this is one of the reasons why they're so much fun to watch, namely that they're like humans with a lot of hair-- sorta makes this bald guy jealous.

 

[Riverwolf]

I think this is one of the reasons why they're so much fun to watch, namely that they're like humans with a lot of hair-- sorta makes this bald guy jealous.

The biggest difference that I've heard about (you know, aside from that whole "spoken language" thing), is that they don't seem to be all that interested in asking questions, which is a cornerstone of human behavior.

However, here's the thing: I don't usually think to ask questions right away. I tend to instinctively take things at face value without actively questioning them; even if something seems a bit "off", I just shrug it off with a "huh, that's odd, wonder why, moving on". I have to actively tell myself that questioning things is a good idea, and it's only recently that it's started becoming automatic, as I've seen others to model after.

So, I wonder just how much they're actually questioning things internally without us realizing. If some humans have to be, and can be, taught how to ask questions, maybe they can be taught.

 

[metis]

The biggest difference that I've heard about (you know, aside from that whole "spoken language" thing), is that they don't seem to be all that interested in asking questions, which is a cornerstone of human behavior.

However, here's the thing: I don't usually think to ask questions right away. I tend to instinctively take things at face value without actively questioning them; even if something seems a bit "off", I just shrug it off with a "huh, that's odd, wonder why, moving on". I have to actively tell myself that questioning things is a good idea, and it's only recently that it's started becoming automatic, as I've seen others to model after.

So, I wonder just how much they're actually questioning things internally without us realizing. If some humans have to be, and can be, taught how to ask questions, maybe they can be taught.

Actually when taught to use some human-like language (using computer signs), they actually can and do. One chimp, trained to use computer signs, could ask questions and did, and one exchange was quite interesting. There was a sign on his (I think it was Washoe-- sp?) computer for an apple, and one of the handlers instead slipped in an orange, which the chimp really like a lot and asked for another one, The handler ask him "Another what?". The chimp asked for what he just had. The handler played dumb again and asked for what he just had. The chimp finally thought a bit and "wrote" that he wanted and apple that was orange colored.

Now, that may not seem as much, but the chimp put two unrelated things together that normally wouldn't go together, therefore he clearly was using both reason and also was asking questions. IOW, it wasn't a conditioned reflex.

 

[Riverwolf]

Actually when taught to use some human-like language (using computer signs), they actually can and do. One chimp, trained to use computer signs, could ask questions and did, and one exchange was quite interesting. There was a sign on his (I think it was Washoe-- sp?) computer for an apple, and one of the handlers instead slipped in an orange, which the chimp really like a lot and asked for another one, The handler ask him "Another what?". The chimp asked for what he just had. The handler played dumb again and asked for what he just had. The chimp finally thought a bit and "wrote" that he wanted and apple that was orange colored.

Now, that may not seem as much, but the chimp put two unrelated things together that normally wouldn't go together, therefore he clearly was using both reason and also was asking questions. IOW, it wasn't a conditioned reflex.

Huh! I didn't know about that!

That's pretty cool!

 

[Milton Platt]

Hi all,
A lot of times I hear people saying that humans differ from animals due to their consciousness...
that the fact we are aware of ourselves is the difference...
thus assuming animals are not self aware..
have no desires and no understanding of pain, grief and such.

But all over nature, we keep finding out new animal behaviors that contradict this assumption
For example,
Elephants grief and mourn their dead... When a herd of elephants come across a dead elephant in their path, they actually go to it, and mourn over it....
They are known species of spiders that actually decide the "job" of each spider based on it's traits. this shows not a decision based on instincts alone but rather an understanding that a coward spider cannot be a soldier
Dolphins are known to have a very high intelligence and social awareness. They have a caring and loving approach to their young old and sick...

Come to say, There are so many facts that we are yet to know about animals, but as discoveries are made, it is clear that humans uniqueness is not as big as it seems.

besides all that, Humans, still, with all their knowledge, intelligence, socialite, culture and morality..
are instinctive creatures...
If you'll face a human with a life threatening situation.. his instincts will kick in and do everything that is needed to survive...
If a man will be forced to kill a man or die himself.. sadly, many will choose their lives over someone else..
Instinct...

As i see it.. Human's mechanism is much inferior than the animals'.
The fact that we now "control" our earth.. just shows how bad of species we are...

No animal will ever harm it's own environment...
No animal will ever harm another just for the fun of it (excluding white whales that use animals as a game - but it is actually the way they "sharpen" their hunting instincts)

So why do you think GOD will create such a wonder like humans when clearly we are a hazard to it's own created world?
Why would a GOD need a human?
What is the purpose of creating a species like the human?

How about, humans are not a vegetable, therefore they are an animal???????

 

[Parsimony]

No, we don't. This is an autonomous action, not an instinct. An instinct is triggered by stimuli. See above.

Breathing is triggered by stimuli (carbon dioxide levels in the blood).

How about, humans are not a vegetable, therefore they are an animal???????

We could be fungi or protists. =p

 

[Kapalika]

Actually when taught to use some human-like language (using computer signs), they actually can and do. One chimp, trained to use computer signs, could ask questions and did, and one exchange was quite interesting. There was a sign on his (I think it was Washoe-- sp?) computer for an apple, and one of the handlers instead slipped in an orange, which the chimp really like a lot and asked for another one, The handler ask him "Another what?". The chimp asked for what he just had. The handler played dumb again and asked for what he just had. The chimp finally thought a bit and "wrote" that he wanted and apple that was orange colored.

Now, that may not seem as much, but the chimp put two unrelated things together that normally wouldn't go together, therefore he clearly was using both reason and also was asking questions. IOW, it wasn't a conditioned reflex.

Sounds really amazing; do you have a link or source so I could use it myself for future reference?

 

[metis]

Sounds really amazing; do you have a link or source so I could use it myself for future reference?

I don't have time to read this link myself right now, but I'm hoping that this may help: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washoe_(chimpanzee)

 

[Etritonakin]

Hi all,
A lot of times I hear people saying that humans differ from animals due to their consciousness...
that the fact we are aware of ourselves is the difference...
thus assuming animals are not self aware..
have no desires and no understanding of pain, grief and such.

But all over nature, we keep finding out new animal behaviors that contradict this assumption
For example,
Elephants grief and mourn their dead... When a herd of elephants come across a dead elephant in their path, they actually go to it, and mourn over it....
They are known species of spiders that actually decide the "job" of each spider based on it's traits. this shows not a decision based on instincts alone but rather an understanding that a coward spider cannot be a soldier
Dolphins are known to have a very high intelligence and social awareness. They have a caring and loving approach to their young old and sick...

Come to say, There are so many facts that we are yet to know about animals, but as discoveries are made, it is clear that humans uniqueness is not as big as it seems.

besides all that, Humans, still, with all their knowledge, intelligence, socialite, culture and morality..
are instinctive creatures...
If you'll face a human with a life threatening situation.. his instincts will kick in and do everything that is needed to survive...
If a man will be forced to kill a man or die himself.. sadly, many will choose their lives over someone else..
Instinct...

As i see it.. Human's mechanism is much inferior than the animals'.
The fact that we now "control" our earth.. just shows how bad of species we are...

No animal will ever harm it's own environment...
No animal will ever harm another just for the fun of it (excluding white whales that use animals as a game - but it is actually the way they "sharpen" their hunting instincts)

So why do you think GOD will create such a wonder like humans when clearly we are a hazard to it's own created world?
Why would a GOD need a human?
What is the purpose of creating a species like the human?

That which makes us capable of extreme destruction is also what makes us capable of extreme creation -but we have to learn to do the latter and not the former.

When we do, things will be extremely awesome and not extremely sucky.

The present situation is similar to kids coloring on the walls and generally making a mess of things. Eventually, they learn to do things differently -the place is repaired -all is good.

The overall reality is much more harsh than some colors on a wall, etc., but the same principle applies.

 

[Milton Platt]

That which makes us capable of extreme destruction is also what makes us capable of extreme creation -but we have to learn to do the latter and not the former.

When we do, things will be extremely awesome and not extremely sucky.

The present situation is similar to kids coloring on the walls and generally making a mess of things. Eventually, they learn to do things differently -the place is repaired -all is good.

The overall reality is much more harsh than some colors on a wall, etc., but the same principle applies.

Why assume we were created? Why not go with the evidence and accept that we evolved and have commonality with all of nature?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Your dog would eat your dead body if the situation arose and never bat an eye.

You don't know that. The bond between a dog and their human companion is very strong. He would grieve. My cats would eat me first. Lol. Even if he did eat me, that doesn't mean he lacks empathy. It would just be a corpse at that point. If he were starving and I died, I would hope he would eat my corpse to survive.

 

[metis]

Here's the real difference between humans and animals: those who agree with me are human; those who don't are mere animals.

 

[Zosimus]

Jane Goodall witnesses a fairly young chimp in the wild who grieved for so long over the death of his mother that he literally died of starvation.

If that doesn't disprove evolution, what would?

 

[Segev Moran]

If that doesn't disprove evolution, what would?

I'm confused...
How's that disproves evolution???????????

 

[BSM1]

That which makes us capable of extreme destruction is also what makes us capable of extreme creation -but we have to learn to do the latter and not the former.

When we do, things will be extremely awesome and not extremely sucky.

The present situation is similar to kids coloring on the walls and generally making a mess of things. Eventually, they learn to do things differently -the place is repaired -all is good.

The overall reality is much more harsh than some colors on a wall, etc., but the same principle applies.

This is why humans take vows and make promises (whether they keep them or not) and animals don't. Another example of humans being more aware of themselves and their actions, IMHO.

Here's the real difference between humans and animals: those who agree with me are human; those who don't are mere animals.

Thanks for making it easy for us....

 

[Zosimus]

I'm confused...
How's that disproves evolution???????????

We are told that the animal in question had been refined by generations of natural selection to be a self-feeding reproducing machine. Yet, upon the death of its mother, it spent so much time moping that it died of starvation and never bred.

That doesn't sound like an inconsistency in the theory to you?

 

[Etritonakin]

This is why humans take vows and make promises (whether they keep them or not) and animals don't. Another example of humans being more aware of themselves and their actions, IMHO.




Thanks for making it easy for us....

That's also why vows and promises are not always binding -because they are not always as they seem and promises are used as a snare by the evil. Many animals are much more loyal than people -even though they can't promise anything.

Humans have much greater capabilities than they need to simply be human, survive and thrive. They are destined to be much more than human -even simply due to the fact that they can imagine it and work toward it.