The difference between religion and superstitions

[Segev Moran]

As an a-naturalist I make no positive assertions, I simply refuse to believe in spontaneous naturalistic gift givers until evidence is provided!

you're using a nice example, but in the wrong way...
Let's stick with the gift analogy...
But now, let's assume you have a household of 5 people.

Religion: I See a gift, thus I know exactly who gave it to me even though i have no idea what's in it. Not only that, I know what's in it and what will happen if I use in any possible way. I am also certain that the gift this giver gave me, is so important that I don't use it correctly, my entire meaning of life will be bad.
Secular: I See a gift, I wonder who gave it to me... It is probable that it was XYZ but I'm not sure. I'll know more when I open the gift.

It means that for her birthday, she's getting a 30 gal, 420cc truck bed air compressor with 18 SCFM @ 90 PSI, overhead valve gas engine w/ electric start and recoil backup....In blue to match her eyes..

Lol, Can iI be your wife?

 

[jeager106]

Can't explain "it".
Then God did it.
I don't subscribe to that but many religious persons do.

 

[jeager106]

Everyone knows that if a black cat crosses your path then go
the other way.
Calamity is sure to follow.

 

[Segev Moran]

Religion answers the "why" question

No it doesn't. It tries to answer, maybe...

it provides a reason and a frame-of-reference for existence.

reason???

Superstition does not instead providing just a magic ritual designed to cause some result.

Oh.. Like being baptized for example? or maybe being circumcised? oh oh.. I know, maybe fasting and living in a cave for a month?

A followup question is naturally what parts of religion are based on superstition because in practice the two are often intermingled.

How about worshiping a statue?
Is that a superstition?

 

[Segev Moran]

I see the difference as that there is evidence for the existence of the supernatural=paranormal in real world happenings.

can you share an example of such evidence please?

 

[George-ananda]

can you share an example of such evidence please?

Near death Experiences, teachings of advanced souls, Spirit Communication, miracles, etc..

 

[Revoltingest]

As an a-naturalist I make no positive assertions, I simply refuse to believe in spontaneous naturalistic gift givers until evidence is provided!



It means that for her birthday, she's getting a 30 gal, 420cc truck bed air compressor with 18 SCFM @ 90 PSI, overhead valve gas engine w/ electric start and recoil backup.

...In blue to match her eyes..

You're such a romantic.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Lol... It almost sounds like you think Atheism is a belief system .. hehe.
Please, Please, Please, explain to me how not believing in something is considered a belief system... lol.

You tell me, as an a-naturalist, I make no positive assertions that need to stand on their own merits.

I merely lack the belief in any sort of naturalistic explanation for the universe and life. Until you can provide some evidence of course

(and meanwhile I default to the obvious alternative)

Lots of love to you too!

 

[Guy Threepwood]

You're such a romantic.

Thank you, I try.

 

[Segev Moran]

Near death Experiences, teachings of advanced souls, Spirit Communication, miracles, etc..

How does a NDE is an evidence for anything other than an experience we can't quite understand?
How does a teaching is a proof of something? I can teach people that dancing naked in the rain will raise their cognitive abilities.. it doesn't mean it proven.
Have you ever communicated with spirits?
Have you ever witnessed a genuine miracle? (No, someone getting healthy even though the doctors thought he wouldn't is not a miracle!!!, A baby that survived while dozen others died, is not a miracle).

 

[Segev Moran]

You tell me, as an a-naturalist, I make no positive assertions that need to stand on their own merits.

I merely lack the belief in any sort of naturalistic explanation for the universe and life. Until you can provide some evidence of course

How about fossils?
What about thousands of life forms?
What about predictions?
What about DNA?
What about your own biological structure?
What about the sun? and the moon? and mars?

(and meanwhile I default to the obvious alternative)

Please elaborate, What is the Obvious alternative? and how is it obvious?
As i see it, If it was so obvious, everyone would know it.. Unless of course, you are the only smart person to realize that it is so obvious.

Lots of love to you too!

Cheers

 

[psychoslice]

I myself don't see any difference.

 

[David T]

Lol... It almost sounds like you think Atheism is a belief system .. hehe.
Please, Please, Please, explain to me how not believing in something is considered a belief system... lol.

Because when it comes to nature what you believe or do not believe or are agnostic about is totally irrelevant. All atheists make the same exact mistake they "believe" religion understands the topic God, so you don't believe in a something they are fairly clueless about. Does that make atheists the reasoned emotionally detached clueless ones vs the unreasoned emotional clueless ones? The topic is not that easy you don't believe in a topic that you don't understand because religion by definition barely even has an inkling.i suggest easy stuff like quantum mechanics or string theory. Non dimensional point like particles are so magical.

 

[Segev Moran]

All atheists make the same exact mistake they "believe" religion understands the topic God

Lol.. nope. I (And any atheist i talked with so far) Don't think religion knows anything about God or any other spiritual concept they pretend to know about.
Atheist simply think its all made up. How can someone KNOW about something that is MADE UP?

Does that make atheists the reasoned emotionally detached clueless ones vs the unseasoned emotional clueless ones?

I Agree that we are all clueless! difference is, some people are so convinced they know everything there is to know, to the extant they teach it to other people as it was the only possible truth. or in short: B.S.

The topic is not that easy you don't believe in a topic

I Don't believe spirituality.. not the topic of spirituality.

i suggest easy stuff like quantum mechanics or string theory. Non dimensional point like particles are so magical.

Suggest as what?
Can't quite understand what's that got to do with anything?
Are you suggesting that superstitions are real and caused by Quantum physics???

 

[David T]

Lol.. nope. I (And any atheist i talked with so far) Don't think religion knows anything about God or any other spiritual concept they pretend to know about.
Atheist simply think its all made up. How can someone KNOW about something that is MADE UP?


I Agree that we are all clueless! difference is, some people are so convinced they know everything there is to know, to the extant they teach it to other people as it was the only possible truth. or in short: B.S.

I Don't believe spirituality.. not the topic of spirituality.

Suggest as what?
Can't quite understand what's that got to do with anything?
Are you suggesting that superstitions are real and caused by Quantum physics???

No more than sperm are tiny people, and that homosexuals are mentally ill or that the consciousness intellect of the observer is causing the wave particle collapse. All fantasy!!!!! I sent a friend an article on Hilma af Clint a painter. He wrote back he found it weird that Hilma did seances each week. I said let's go to the Elwa dam removal project I will explain. As we walked I said Hilma claims to commune with the dead. I pointed out dead trees, dead dirt, dead water, flowing down a dead river, dead air dead sky dead sun dead snow dead mountains dead cosmos. I said " man 9.99999999999999% of everything is dead!!!! So while Hilma is doing her seances to commune with the dead, she may not fully understand what she is experiencing and may believe in tiny people that are mentally ill cause energy to magically appear when she looks at it!!!! We could say "superstitious nonsense" but all the nonsense is scientific in origion!!!! You could say that's old science we have new science but that's what they all said back then too!!!

I could also point to Rudolf Steiner and biodynamic farming and as a part of that whole thing he said to fill a bulls horn with crushed quartz and bury it!! A university did a study and "scientifically proved that it was nonsense the bulls horn had no effect on the growth rate of plants!!! Pure superstition! Steiner is a very interesting cat, they most certainly they did not understand Steiner and were not checking in the right place and Steiner understood all of this. If you do not understand, and dig expecting to hit gold without knowing where to dig at all or base it on the stars I might call that superstition as well even if its "scientifically structured. It happens at my work daily. Heck I fall prey to it as well.

Btw I understand atheism it has validity and if I wasn't so blastedly cursed numinously I would indeed be atheist myself. Which would be nice that would be called "NORMAL". I barely tolerate religion, its filled with nonsense but that too is "normal". Dylan discovered this Merton wrote about it the popester piimts it out poets have railed against it robert frost called the religious atheists, and John Muir said trees make more sense than people!!! All not normals!!!

 

[SkepticX]

No, there is a difference.
When a superstition acquires real estate for its group practice, it then becomes a full fledged religion.
(I was a licensed broker....I know.)

It's more than that though. Religion is generally socialized thinking and behavior. That's why non-aberrant religious beliefs are specifically singled out of the criteria for delusional disorders. The origin is society, not the mind--the mechanism is socialization, not mental illness, at least as far as diagnosis is concerned. A religious connection doesn't rule out delusion, it's just not intrinsically an indication, or even frequently in terms of religious beliefs.

If you separate religion from the community you're not going to understand believers or their thinking or behavior very well. On the other hand, if you don't separate religion from the community you're not going to understand what religion actually is--what makes a given community religious rather than something else. Religious belief and behavior is really about the community. Religion is a pretty trivial aspect in terms of function, even if not to believers. That's got a lot to do with why it seems irrational to outsiders, and why the more socially detached and aloof and often nasty) franchises are also the more doctrinally (dogmatically) oriented. Religious behavior and thinking is quite frankly irrational in its religious aspects (that's why faith is so highly valued--it's basically a cognitive enzyme), but it's deeply human in its function--i.e. as a community.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's more than that though. Religion is generally socialized thinking and behavior. That's why non-aberrant religious beliefs are specifically singled out of the criteria for delusional disorders. The origin is society, not the mind--the mechanism is socialization, not mental illness, at least as far as diagnosis is concerned. A religious connection doesn't rule out delusion, it's just not intrinsically an indication, or even frequently in terms of religious beliefs.

If you separate religion from the community you're not going to understand believers or their thinking or behavior very well. On the other hand, if you don't separate religion from the community you're not going to understand what religion actually is--what makes a given community religious rather than something else. Religious belief and behavior is really about the community. Religion is a pretty trivial aspect in terms of function, even if not to believers. That's got a lot to do with why it seems irrational to outsiders, and why the more socially detached and aloof and often nasty) franchises are also the more doctrinally (dogmatically) oriented. Religious behavior and thinking is quite frankly irrational in its religious aspects (that's why faith is so highly valued--it's basically a cognitive enzyme), but it's deeply human in its function--i.e. as a community.

I agree with what you say.
Real estate is an indicator of this.

 

[SkepticX]

I agree with what you say.
Real estate is an indicator of this.

Pretty delusional cult groups are also known for acquiring real estate though. I'm not sure that's actually an indication of religion vs. superstition, but rather of a group's degree of devotion and means. But then I'm not sure that delusion is close enough to superstition in the context of the OP to be adequately relevant here either--seems likely at least, but that's hardly a refutation of your position.

 

[Revoltingest]

Pretty delusional cult groups are also known for acquiring real estate though. I'm not sure that's actually an indication of religion vs. superstition, but rather of a group's degree of devotion and means. But then I'm not sure that delusion is close enough to superstition in the context of the OP to be adequately relevant here either--seems likely at least, but that's hardly a refutation of your position.

"Delusional cult" is just what more established religions call competing upstarts.
There's no fundamental difference.

 

[SkepticX]

"Delusional cult" is just what more established religions call competing upstarts.
There's no fundamental difference.

Again I'd argue it's more than that. As I understand it cults require a strong rejection of the culturally accepted parameters of religion, just not completely enough to include the trappings or usually the basic framework, whereas religions are more or less compatible with culturally accepted norms even if that compatibility is sometimes a bit strained. I'd argue that's a pretty fundamental difference. But none of that really matters to the issue at hand unless delusional is close enough to superstitious to more or less equate the two in the context of the OP. They are to my mind (I think), but I'm not the marshal of the discussion.