The dinosaurs, a meteor, and us: a thought experiment.

[Valjean]

If things are reversible then it’s not a mass extinction.

What's being reversed?

Also, do you prefer slavery? No plumbing. No modern medicine?

What does slavery have to do with plumbing or medicine?

Same question. You prefer slavery, no plumbing and no medicine?

??????? Slavery?
Are hunter-gatherers less happy than bankers and bus drivers?

Question: Do you prefer extinction to life in balance with the ecosystem?

 

[Unfettered]

To marvel at the wonder if birds. Not to manipulate ourselves into using it's powers to fly.

Understood. Just trying to be fair here.

 

[Unfettered]

Absolutely, but they produced them on instinct, not writing it to words and teaching the words to their grandchildren.

I see your methodology, I am just observing that consciousness enables human beings to break a bunch of rules found within nature.

Understood. Just being honest about what is natural.

 

[Unfettered]

Nature is not an unmitigated good. It has no goal or intention. Bubonic plague, tornadoes, earthquakes and famine are all perfectly natural.

I agree.

 

[Quintessence]

If things are reversible then it’s not a mass extinction.

If you don't believe in mass extinctions - all the five previous ones and the sixth one happening now - because all of them were hypothetically reversible, that's... an interesting perspective. Let's take that same logic into this here, because that just makes sense now that you've set the precedent:

Also, do you prefer slavery? No plumbing. No modern medicine?

You just established that we can just not believe something historically occurred or is presently occurring if it is hypothetically reversible. None of these questions even matter now. If mass extinctions aren't real, neither is slavery, plumbing, or modern medicine.

But in all seriousness, if you're expecting me to deliver the selfishly anthropocentric entitled drivel that most humans dribble out as they make excuses for why their species is responsible for planetary scale ecological genocide, yeah... no.

 

[Heyo]

Yes. A small number of us are quite clever in deciphering Reality, but we retain a hunter-gatherer psychology. This never selected for future planning or analysis.

We are selected for future planning - and that is one of the problems.
Like squirrels we like to make stashes for the winter. I.e. we are hoarders. There is a natural limit of how much food you can hoard but there is no limit of how much money you can hoard. Thus some people tend to accumulate insane amounts of money with no boundaries.

 

[Heyo]

Not really as human being can break the laws of nature, by choice.

Questionable.
But we are currently running an experiment to see if we can.
In biology there is law (not really, more of an observation) that any species, in an enclosed environment, with enough food, that has no predators (or other limiting factors), (think of yeast in a bowl of dough) will multiply exponentially and **** it's bed until their waste kills them all.
Currently it looks like we can't break that law.

 

[Bthoth]

Questionable.
But we are currently running an experiment to see if we can.
In biology there is law (not really, more of an observation) that any species, in an enclosed environment, with enough food, that has no predators (or other limiting factors), (think of yeast in a bowl of dough) will multiply exponentially and **** it's bed until their waste kills them all.
Currently it looks like we can't break that law.

'enclosed environment'.......the earth is in space............ ?

Why put a life in a box to see.

"A perfect vacuum is defined as a state with no matter particles, and also no photons. This state is impossible to achieve experimentally because it is nearly impossible to remove the matter, and is impossible to eliminate all the photons."

 

[Heyo]

'enclosed environment'.......the earth is in space............ ?

And? Our **** doesn't automatically float into space. In that sense Earth is an enclosed environment. And if there is no functioning recycling system, our **** will kill us.

 

[Bthoth]

And? Our **** doesn't automatically float into space. In that sense Earth is an enclosed environment. And if there is no functioning recycling system, our **** will kill us.

IN simple words, closing a system is irrational to defend entropy.

There are no closed systems in nature. And within nature, the living process is actually 'intending to continue' (to survive).

That perspective is practically opposite of reductionary (entropy). Just because the causality is not understood, does not mean returning to the second law of thermodynamics (2LoT) as the model (law) to retain.

 

[Heyo]

IN simple words, closing a system is irrational to defend entropy.

There are no closed systems in nature. And within nature, the living process is actually 'intending to continue' (to survive).

That perspective is practically opposite of reductionary (entropy). Just because the causality is not understood, does not mean returning to the second law of thermodynamics (2LoT) as the model (law) to retain.

Are you wilfully obtuse or do you really not understand?

This is not about a "closed system" in the sense of thermodynamics. It is about a biological system that is enclosed. I.e. a species (and their waste) don't leave the system. A bowl of dough is not a "closed system" but it is an enclosed system. Earth is an enclosed system in the same way. And currently there is a species on Earth that is multiplying exponentially and producing a lot of waste that is going to kill the species.

 

[Bthoth]

Are you wilfully obtuse or do you really not understand?

I do understand but you dont.

This is not about a "closed system" in the sense of thermodynamics.

Exactly, as it is impossible to close a system complete.

It is about a biological system that is enclosed. I.e. a species (and their waste) don't leave the system.

Sure yu can put a life in a box and what IT needs can be kept from the life (process)

A bowl of dough is not a "closed system" but it is an enclosed system.

Sure for the yeast to raise the dough it need heat.

Earth is an enclosed system in the same way.

And there is your cross up. The sun's energy is still raining upon the earth

And currently there is a species on Earth that is multiplying exponentially and producing a lot of waste that is going to kill the species.

Yep and many of that species still have no idea how living processes work.

 

[Valjean]

We are selected for future planning - and that is one of the problems.
Like squirrels we like to make stashes for the winter. I.e. we are hoarders. There is a natural limit of how much food you can hoard but there is no limit of how much money you can hoard. Thus some people tend to accumulate insane amounts of money with no boundaries.

Yet we frequently (usually?) default to snap judgements, rather than take the time for a proper analysis of a situation or a risk-benefit calculation. This is no problem when we're powerless to affect the future or the environment, but when we're clever enough to accumulate technology without altering the default effect, the effects of your our simple decisions are magnified, and projected into a future we're not wired to consider.

 

[Heyo]

Suppose that humanity were to be wiped out, by let's say a meteor or nuclear fire. Lets work with the assumption that not all life on earth would be wiped out, similarly to what happened when the meteor hit. Let's suppose that the food chain gets shifted, however.

Now suppose the choice is yours. You have your finger on the nuclear trigger. What do you do?

Let's consider the other option. There is an Chicxulub sized asteroid that has a 95% chance of hitting Earth in 10 years. NASA has figured out a program that will lower the chance to 5%. All they need is half of your wealth and half of your income for the next ten years. (And with "you", they mean everybody.)

Now suppose the choice is yours. Would you pony up, or would you find excuses why you don't have to pay?