The Divinity of the Quran vs. the Bible

[control.to.win]

Here I mean the Holy Quran and the New Testament. Everything in this thread should be singularly drawn from each respective text. Don't state your own opinions or conclusions about the Quran or the New testament without providing a quote. If you don't have one, make sure you paraphrase.

The best place to start this is with the claims of the scriptures themselves. What do each state about themselves?

The Bible doesn't declare itself as word for word revelation of God. Neither does it claim it's text has remained or will remain unchanged. It also does not claim that it is a perfect teaching for all peoples for all time
(I have many things to yet tell you, but you can't bear them now). Therefore, the text has been written and changed by man, with all the inherent risks that it presents of bias, twisting the truth, lies and words lost in translation. and by it's own account it is an incomplete teaching.

The Quran claims that it is the word for word revelation of God. Unchanged by time, it will forever remain in it's original text. It is a perfect teaching, for all mankind and for all time. (verily, we have sent down this exhortation, and surely, we are it's protector) (it is nothing but pure revelation, revealed)

I'm not speaking of using the Quran to prove the Quran. I'm stating the claims of each text as a starting point from which a debate can be started. And from the get-go, the bible is already at a massive disadvantage.

 

[McBell]

opcorn:

 

[fallingblood]

Here I mean the Holy Quran and the New Testament. Everything in this thread should be singularly drawn from each respective text. Don't state your own opinions or conclusions about the Quran or the New testament without providing a quote. If you don't have one, make sure you paraphrase.

The best place to start this is with the claims of the scriptures themselves. What do each state about themselves?

The Bible doesn't declare itself as word for word revelation of God. Neither does it claim it's text has remained or will remain unchanged. It also does not claim that it is a perfect teaching for all peoples for all time
(I have many things to yet tell you, but you can't bear them now). Therefore, the text has been written and changed by man, with all the inherent risks that it presents of bias, twisting the truth, lies and words lost in translation. and by it's own account it is an incomplete teaching.

The Quran claims that it is the word for word revelation of God. Unchanged by time, it will forever remain in it's original text. It is a perfect teaching, for all mankind and for all time. (verily, we have sent down this exhortation, and surely, we are it's protector) (it is nothing but pure revelation, revealed)

I'm not speaking of using the Quran to prove the Quran. I'm stating the claims of each text as a starting point from which a debate can be started. And from the get-go, the bible is already at a massive disadvantage.

First, both are written by man. Second, you are only stating an opinion. Third, you can't use a source to prove itself, that is illogical. Fourth, there is evidence that in fact that Quran has undergone at least a little change.

You can't prove that the Quran is the word of God. You can only show that the Quran states that, and that is no proof at all.

 

[Bowman]

Here I mean the Holy Quran and the New Testament. Everything in this thread should be singularly drawn from each respective text. Don't state your own opinions or conclusions about the Quran or the New testament without providing a quote. If you don't have one, make sure you paraphrase.

The best place to start this is with the claims of the scriptures themselves. What do each state about themselves?

The Bible doesn't declare itself as word for word revelation of God. Neither does it claim it's text has remained or will remain unchanged. It also does not claim that it is a perfect teaching for all peoples for all time
(I have many things to yet tell you, but you can't bear them now). Therefore, the text has been written and changed by man, with all the inherent risks that it presents of bias, twisting the truth, lies and words lost in translation. and by it's own account it is an incomplete teaching.

The Quran claims that it is the word for word revelation of God. Unchanged by time, it will forever remain in it's original text. It is a perfect teaching, for all mankind and for all time. (verily, we have sent down this exhortation, and surely, we are it's protector) (it is nothing but pure revelation, revealed)

I'm not speaking of using the Quran to prove the Quran. I'm stating the claims of each text as a starting point from which a debate can be started. And from the get-go, the bible is already at a massive disadvantage.

Let's look at one book of the Holy Bible and see what it says...



And he says to me, Write: Blessed are the ones having been called to the supper of the marriage of the Lamb. And he says to me, These Words of God are true. (Rev 19.9)

And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from God, having been prepared as a bride, having been adorned for her Husband. And I heard a great voice out of Heaven, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God with men! And He will tabernacle with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. And death shall be no longer, nor mourning, nor outcry, nor will there be pain any more; for the first things passed away. And the One sitting on the throne said, Behold! I make all things new. And He says to me, Write, because these Words are faithful and true. (Rev 21.2 – 5)

And I, John, was the one seeing and hearing these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel showing me these things. (Rev 22.8)



The bulk of the Koranic material is taken directly from the Book of Revelation – of which, this Biblical material is clearly signed by John, as both seeing and hearing Jesus’ divine Revelation and writing it down.

John was directly inspired to write down the Words of God.



Now…

According to the followers if Islam, their “prophet Muhammad” was responsible for the written text which comprises their Koran.

If this is the case, then where in all of the Koran is anything like the following written…


“I, Muhammad, wrote this here Koran”

Or…

“I, Muhammad, dictated this here Koran”

Or…

“I, Muhammad, was inspired by an angel”

Or…

“I, Muhammad, was divinely inspired”



Fact is, the Koran never once mentions who wrote the text, or that it was divinely inspired.


Not once.


114 chapters in the Koran, and no one claims ownership...not even "allah".

What it does claim, however, is that it merely copied and translated the previous inspired Jewish and Christian scriptures into Arabic.

 

[control.to.win]

The quran is not authored by any man (which I will prove). I have not stated any of my own opinions, merely paraphrased what each book said about it's own teachings. There is no proof that any part of the Quran has been changed since it's original revelation. And you have not provided one shred of evidence to support these OPINIONS of yours. I stated in the first post, If you don't quote scripture, don't bother posting.

I will prove my end of the argument as best I can. Instead of attacking, I believe you should work on damage control, as the bible has already been shown to be incomplete and abrogated.

The Quran provides it's own logical arguments for proving it's divinity. I will post the arguments the Quran provides for ITSELF as soon as I can. Please do the same if you hope to defend the bible. Show me what proof the bible furnishes for itself.

 

[Bowman]

The quran is not authored by any man (which I will prove). I have not stated any of my own opinions, merely paraphrased what each book said about it's own teachings. There is no proof that any part of the Quran has been changed since it's original revelation. And you have not provided one shred of evidence to support these OPINIONS of yours. I stated in the first post, If you don't quote scripture, don't bother posting.

I will prove my end of the argument as best I can. Instead of attacking, I believe you should work on damage control, as the bible has already been shown to be incomplete and abrogated.

The Quran provides it's own logical arguments for proving it's divinity. I will post the arguments the Quran provides for ITSELF as soon as I can. Please do the same if you hope to defend the bible. Show me what proof the bible furnishes for itself.

وإذا بدلنا ءاية مكان ءاية والله أعلم بماينزلقالوا إنما أنت مفتر بل أكثرهم لايعلمون​

Wa-itha baddalna ayatan makana ayatin waAllahu aAAlamu bima yunazzilu qaloo innama anta muftarin bal aktharuhum la yaAAlamoona

16.101 And when we changed a verse in place (of) a verse, and “allah” is most wise with what (he) sends down, they said: "Except you are one who fabricates lies." But most of them they do not know.



As you can see, this ayah discusses exactly how the god “allah” is the one (masculine singular, personal pronoun “anta&#8221 who fabricates lies; i.e. “forged an unprecedented fraud” (muftarin) – and most people are unaware of it.

The lies and fabrications of the god “allah” result in the changing of a verse for a verse, in your book of faith.

No surprise here…

 

[control.to.win]

Let's look at one book of the Holy Bible and see what it says...



And he says to me, Write: Blessed are the ones having been called to the supper of the marriage of the Lamb. And he says to me, These Words of God are true. (Rev 19.9)

And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from God, having been prepared as a bride, having been adorned for her Husband. And I heard a great voice out of Heaven, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God with men! And He will tabernacle with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. And death shall be no longer, nor mourning, nor outcry, nor will there be pain any more; for the first things passed away. And the One sitting on the throne said, Behold! I make all things new. And He says to me, Write, because these Words are faithful and true. (Rev 21.2 – 5)

And I, John, was the one seeing and hearing these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel showing me these things. (Rev 22.8)



The bulk of the Koranic material is taken directly from the Book of Revelation – of which, this Biblical material is clearly signed by John, as both seeing and hearing Jesus’ divine Revelation and writing it down.

John was directly inspired to write down the Words of God.



Now…

According to the followers if Islam, their “prophet Muhammad” was responsible for the written text which comprises their Koran.

If this is the case, then where in all of the Koran is anything like the following written…


“I, Muhammad, wrote this here Koran”

Or…

“I, Muhammad, dictated this here Koran”

Or…

“I, Muhammad, was inspired by an angel”

Or…

“I, Muhammad, was divinely inspired”



Fact is, the Koran never once mentions who wrote the text, or that it was divinely inspired.


Not once.


114 chapters in the Koran, and no one claims ownership...not even "allah".

What it does claim, however, is that it merely copied and translated the previous inspired Jewish and Christian scriptures into Arabic.

Your quotes themselves prove that the bible is not a word for word revelation.
Firstly, The books were written by different people, in different time periods. To prove the New testament is all revelation, you would need proof from each book in the New Testament where God explicitly states that everything here is from God, word for word. Which no christian in the world can claim, nor prove.

it seems John (or whomever the author was) has written his own experiences in (seeing such a vision, falling down in worship) with what God has "told" him to write. The most you could possibly infer from these quotes is that there is SOME revelation MIXED IN with the experiences of the author which he has recorded. So, not word for word revelation.

Number two, the integrity of the authors of the bible are also called into account here. Who actually wrote them, in what time period, etc. These arguments are well known, and is not the focus of this thread.

You seem to not know about how the Quran was compiled. It was revealed to the Prophet, who being illiterate, would get the revelation written down immediately by scribes dedicated for this job. All of whose names are recorded in the Ahadith (sayings of the Prophet) and books of history. So The Holy Prophet never claimed to have authored the Quran. In fact, this is an accusation those around him made, which is recorded in the Quran.

About the authorship of the Quran, Allah says in the Holy Quran:

Verily, We Ourself have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian. (15:10)

[2:24] And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then produce a Chapter like it, and call upon your helpers beside Allah, if you are truthful.

It is nothing but pure revelation that has been revealed by God.(53:5)

I think this is enough to show who the author is, although there are many more passages. The Quran declares the author is Allah Himself. The recipient was the Prophet Muhammad. No ambiguity left then, as all historical facts point to the person of Muhammad (pbuh) receiving revelation alone and getting them written down. There is no evidence of any other person getting revelation written down and claiming it to be the quran so that the authorship of the book be doubted.

On a side note, measure this against the bible. The Quran is revealed by God to the Prophet Muhammad. No one disputes that he was the only person who had the revelation written down.
The bible though, is nowhere near this level of certainty in it's authorship. Serious doubts have been cast on whether the authors of the 4 gospels were really Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, not to mention the authors of the other books. I don't have the reference material with me to quote biblical scholars, but I'm sure you know more about this than I do.

So in regards to certainty of authorship, The Qur'an comes out on top. Pure revelation is also only reserved for the Quran.


​

 

[fallingblood]

The quran is not authored by any man (which I will prove). I have not stated any of my own opinions, merely paraphrased what each book said about it's own teachings. There is no proof that any part of the Quran has been changed since it's original revelation. And you have not provided one shred of evidence to support these OPINIONS of yours. I stated in the first post, If you don't quote scripture, don't bother posting.

The Quran was written down by humans. You can't deny that. Also, recently, one of the oldest manuscripts of the Quran that was found, has been shown to possibly be different. We even know that when the official Quran was put together, there were various versions out there. So maybe it hasn't changed for quite some time, but there is no guarantee that it has never changed.

Also, posting scripture is useless. You can't prove either book right or wrong by using scripture.

I will prove my end of the argument as best I can. Instead of attacking, I believe you should work on damage control, as the bible has already been shown to be incomplete and abrogated.

No, you have not. You can only show that your perspective is that.

The Quran provides it's own logical arguments for proving it's divinity. I will post the arguments the Quran provides for ITSELF as soon as I can. Please do the same if you hope to defend the bible. Show me what proof the bible furnishes for itself.

You can't prove a book with itself. I'm not defending the Bible. I'm not a Christian. And I don't believe it is divine (which really doesn't make sense to claim a book it divine). What I'm arguing is that the Quran isn't divine either.

One, you can't prove God exists. You can't prove the Quran by using the Quran. And you're ignoring the history of the Quran, that it was written by man after the fact, out of memory.

 

[Bowman]

Your quotes themselves prove that the bible is not a word for word revelation.

My quotes show first-hand, in the first-person singular, that John faithfully recorded the word of God.

Your Koran, on the other hand, has no such verses contained within its 114 chapters.

After all, the term “Muhammad” was not even a proper name in classic Arabic.

Firstly, The books were written by different people, in different time periods.

And…?

To prove the New testament is all revelation, you would need proof from each book in the New Testament where God explicitly states that everything here is from God, word for word. Which no christian in the world can claim, nor prove.

You should locate this expression in your own book of faith before mandating it upon others, brother…

it seems John (or whomever the author was) has written his own experiences in (seeing such a vision, falling down in worship) with what God has "told" him to write.

So…now you have no choice but to admit that your so called ‘challenge’ has been met.

The most you could possibly infer from these quotes is that there is SOME revelation MIXED IN with the experiences of the author which he has recorded. So, not word for word revelation.

The Greek is quite clear that John recorded the revelation directly from Jesus Christ (God).
If you disagree, then let’s review the Greek.

You seem to not know about how the Quran was compiled. It was revealed to the Prophet, who being illiterate, would get the revelation written down immediately by scribes dedicated for this job. All of whose names are recorded in the Ahadith (sayings of the Prophet) and books of history. So The Holy Prophet never claimed to have authored the Quran. In fact, this is an accusation those around him made, which is recorded in the Quran.

You speak from islam…not the Koran…

About the authorship of the Quran, Allah says in the Holy Quran:

Verily, We Ourself have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian. (15:10)

No mention of “allah”….no mention of “Muhammad”….and no mention of the Koran being divinely inspired….

[2:24] And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then produce a Chapter like it, and call upon your helpers beside Allah, if you are truthful.

No mention of “Muhammad”….and no mention of the Koran being divinely inspired….

 

[Bowman]

It is nothing but pure revelation that has been revealed by God.(53:5)​

Look at how your example has copied the Book of Revelation, brother…


إن هو إلا وحي يوحى

In huwa illa wahyun yooha

53.4 Indeed he is except Revelation that is inspired.




Summary of 53.4:

• John tells us, in the opening verse of Revelation, that the message that he is writing down is a Revelation (apokalupsis)
• A Revelation is something that is revealed, a disclosure of truth, concerning things before unknown
• This Revelation is divinely inspired from Jesus Christ
• Further, the Revelation is signified (semaino) - (which is derived from “sema”, which means “a mark”) by sending through His angel to His slave, John
• 53.4 begins with the particle “in”; “denoting the happening of the second of two events in consequence of the happening of the first, whether the second be immediate or deferred, and whether the condition be affirmation or negative”
• “In” is referencing an event that is the consequence of an event that was previously described in 53.3 – which is John not speaking of his own will
• 53.4 informs us that the second of these two events is that John is speaking due to a Revelation (wahyun) - (i.e. divine inspiration)
• Further confirming the divine inspiration of this Revelation is the usage of the singular, masculine word “yooha”
• “Yooha” confirms that the inspiration comes from a single source
• Surveying all Koranic locations of “yooha” & “yoohee”, overwhelmingly demonstrates that it is used in the context of inspiration from the Lord as revealed through an angel
• Thus, it is becoming increasingly clear that sura 53 is acknowledging the Revelation to John as divinely inspired by the One God Jesus Christ
• Recapping ayahs 1 - 4 in sura 53, we have the following parallels to Revelation:

1. John falls at the feet of Jesus
2. John is the Companion of Jesus
3. John did not die
4. John did not err
5. John speaks not by his own will
6. John received divinely inspired Revelation
7. This Revelation was signified via an angel
8. The Revelation is from Jesus Christ




علمه شديد القوى

AAallamahu shadeedu alquwa

53.5 He taught him, Lord of the mighty powers.



Summary of 53.5:

• The opening chapter of Revelation informs us that John’s witness is “martureo”, i.e. “affirming that one has seen or heard or experienced something, or that he knows it because taught by divine revelation or inspiration”
• The teaching is done by Jesus Christ
• Jesus taught “him”
• Jesus taught John
• Jesus’ divine Revelation to John emanates from the Triune Creator God of the Holy Bible, as demonstrated by the greeting contained in the opening of Revelation chapter one
• This greeting, from the one God, is from:

1. Father
2. Son
3. Spirit

• 53.5 builds upon 53.4 by informing us of the divine singular source of John’s inspiration
• 53.5 begins by using the word “AAallamahu”, which means, “He taught him”
• All Koranic usages of the word “AAallamahu”, & “waAAallamahu” refer exclusively to “allah”
• Hence, we have yet another classic example of the “allah” of the Koran attempting to emulate the deity position occupied by Jesus Christ

1. Jesus taught him
2. “allah” taught him

• 53.5 continues to describe who taught John via the usage of “shadeedu alquwa”, which is rendered “Lord of the Mighty Powers”
• Interestingly, per the classic definition, “shadeedu” can be applied to a man
• Special note goes to “alquwa”, which is plural – not singular
• Observe what has just occurred in this sura:

1. The singular inspiration source, as defined in 53.4, is confirmed as “allah”
2. 53.5 describes “allah” as being Lord of the Mighty powers (plural)
3. “Allah” is singular, and yet plural

• Amazing as it is, the authors of the Koran have imputed the Triune deity of the Biblical God into their newly created god “allah”
• Recapping ayahs 1 - 5 in sura 53, we have the following parallels to Revelation:

1. John falls at the feet of Jesus
2. John is the Companion of Jesus
3. John did not die
4. John did not err
5. John speaks not by his own will
6. John received divinely inspired Revelation
7. This Revelation was signified via an angel
8. The Revelation is from Jesus Christ
9. Jesus taught John
10. Jesus is the Triune God




You can see how your example has just supported my position.

 

[Bowman]

I think this is enough to show who the author is, although there are many more passages. The Quran declares the author is Allah Himself. The recipient was the Prophet Muhammad. No ambiguity left then, as all historical facts point to the person of Muhammad (pbuh) receiving revelation alone and getting them written down. There is no evidence of any other person getting revelation written down and claiming it to be the quran so that the authorship of the book be doubted.

Lol…..wrong.

“Muhammad” is not even so much as mentioned in the Arabic of the terse examples which you provided.

It’s painfully clear that you don’t bother to study the very tongue in which your book of faith was written. Instead, you must abrogate your scriptures by placing in words which never appear.

On a side note, measure this against the bible. The Quran is revealed by God to the Prophet Muhammad. ​

You have yet to show even a single solitary verse which uses the term “Muhammad”, brother.

Keep trying…

Here’s a hint….the term “Muhammad” appears only four times in your book of faith.

No one disputes that he was the only person who had the revelation written down.

​

False.

I dispute it…the Koran disputes it....and so do numerous other scholars.

The bible though, is nowhere near this level of certainty in it's authorship. Serious doubts have been cast on whether the authors of the 4 gospels were really Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, not to mention the authors of the other books. I don't have the reference material with me to quote biblical scholars, but I'm sure you know more about this than I do. ​

So in regards to certainty of authorship, The Qur'an comes out on top. Pure revelation is also only reserved for the Quran.​

Since the Koran can only copy, then it comes out on the bottom, brother….surely you can accept this fact…

 

[fallingblood]

Bowman- Why would the Quran include much about Muhammad? Can you tell me why, logically, the Quran would include the term Muhammad numerous times?

Muhammad was the one who supposedly had the revelation of the Quran. He was not the subject of the Quran.

Also, the verse in Revelation that you use only refers to the book of Revelation. Nothing else. You can't expand it further than the book of Revelation because it was never intended to be in the Bible, as the Bible did not exist.

Finally, you've never shown that the Quran copied extensively from the Bible.

The arguments that have been given in this thread only show the biases of a Muslim and a Christian, nothing more.

 

[Bowman]

Bowman- Why would the Quran include much about Muhammad? Can you tell me why, logically, the Quran would include the term Muhammad numerous times?

Do you even know where the term is used, and in what context, brother?

Muhammad was the one who supposedly had the revelation of the Quran. He was not the subject of the Quran.

Where does the Koran state this?

Also, the verse in Revelation that you use only refers to the book of Revelation. Nothing else. You can't expand it further than the book of Revelation because it was never intended to be in the Bible, as the Bible did not exist.

This one example was used because >75% of the Koran was copied from it, brother.

Finally, you've never shown that the Quran copied extensively from the Bible.

Indeed, we have.

Perhaps you would feel better if you subjectively plucked out a portion of the Koran which you feel is completely devoid of Jewish and Christian influence..?

Didn't think so...

 

[fallingblood]

Do you even know where the term is used, and in what context, brother?

Like I said, it really doesn't matter. The subject of the Quran is not Muhammad.

Where does the Koran state this?

It doesn't, and it doesn't need to. Tradition tells us that. History tells us that.

This one example was used because >75% of the Koran was copied from it, brother.

Unless you can provide some evidence, and I'm not talking about your interpretation, which there is no reason to actually believe as it is based on preconceived biases and with an agenda, there is no reason to believe you. Once you can provide some evidence for your claim, then it can start to be taken seriously. If you can't do that, there is no reason to even consider it.

Indeed, we have.

Perhaps you would feel better if you subjectively plucked out a portion of the Koran which you feel is completely devoid of Jewish and Christian influence..?

Didn't think so...

I would be happy if you could just provide any evidence for your claim. If it relies on the idea that the Quran was subject to some Jewish or Christian influence, I would agree with that. But then, by your definition, we can also claim that the NT is copied from the OT. However, that is not logical.

Once you can prove that the Quran copied the majority of it's worth from the Bible, then I will take your claim seriously. Until then, you are just proving a baseless claim that has no merit.

 

[Bowman]

Like I said, it really doesn't matter. The subject of the Quran is not Muhammad.

Cop-out...

It doesn't, and it doesn't need to. Tradition tells us that. History tells us that.

What 'history'....?

Unless you can provide some evidence, and I'm not talking about your interpretation, which there is no reason to actually believe as it is based on preconceived biases and with an agenda, there is no reason to believe you. Once you can provide some evidence for your claim, then it can start to be taken seriously. If you can't do that, there is no reason to even consider it.
I would be happy if you could just provide any evidence for your claim. If it relies on the idea that the Quran was subject to some Jewish or Christian influence, I would agree with that. But then, by your definition, we can also claim that the NT is copied from the OT. However, that is not logical.

Once you can prove that the Quran copied the majority of it's worth from the Bible, then I will take your claim seriously. Until then, you are just proving a baseless claim that has no merit.

Lol...you cannot even pick any portion of your very own choosing....

You have nothing.

 

[fallingblood]

Cop-out...

If using logic is a cop-out, then yes. How many times does Paul mention himself in his letters? How many times do the authors of the Gospels mention who they are? How many times does any author of any of the books mention who they are?

What 'history'....?

The history of Islam. If you do any research on the subject, you will see what I'm saying to be correct.

Lol...you cannot even pick any portion of your very own choosing....

You have nothing.

Why should I prove something that doesn't need to be proven? If you can support your claim, I have no reason to prove that it is false. You have the burden of proof. I don't need to go through the Quran, as well as the history of the writing of the Quran to show that you are wrong. If you did any research into even the writing of the Quran, then you would know you're wrong. But I highly doubt you will respond with any evidence.

 

[Bowman]

Why should I prove something that doesn't need to be proven? If you can support your claim, I have no reason to prove that it is false. You have the burden of proof. I don't need to go through the Quran, as well as the history of the writing of the Quran to show that you are wrong. If you did any research into even the writing of the Quran, then you would know you're wrong. But I highly doubt you will respond with any evidence.

We are not interested in excuses, brother.

You cannot even pick an ayah of your very own choice....this is simply as objective as it gets.

Come back when you can muster-up your self-courage...

 

[fallingblood]

We are not interested in excuses, brother.

You cannot even pick an ayah of your very own choice....this is simply as objective as it gets.

Come back when you can muster-up your self-courage...

You really can't debate me can you? You have the burden of proof. Start proving. That, or admit you're wrong.

 

[Bowman]

You really can't debate me can you? You have the burden of proof. Start proving. That, or admit you're wrong.

We already gave you several dozen ayah examples with which to select from and discuss....however, you are unable to do this elementary task, as you have no experience whatsoever in Arabic.

Just man-up to this, and be done with it.

The best that you can do now is to start googling your replies...

 

[Islam432]

The quran is not authored by any man (which I will prove). I have not stated any of my own opinions, merely paraphrased what each book said about it's own teachings. There is no proof that any part of the Quran has been changed since it's original revelation. And you have not provided one shred of evidence to support these OPINIONS of yours. I stated in the first post, If you don't quote scripture, don't bother posting.

I will prove my end of the argument as best I can. Instead of attacking, I believe you should work on damage control, as the bible has already been shown to be incomplete and abrogated.

The Quran provides it's own logical arguments for proving it's divinity. I will post the arguments the Quran provides for ITSELF as soon as I can. Please do the same if you hope to defend the bible. Show me what proof the bible furnishes for itself.

exactly, just like quran says
[We have sent down the Quran Ourself, and We Ourself will guard it....] (Quran, Al-Hijr 15: 9),

Allah promised to protect it!!

[Prophet], do not rush your tongue in an attempt to hasten
[your memorization of] the Revelation: 17We shall make sure of its safe collection and recitation. 18 When We have recited it, repeat the recitation 19 and We shall make it clear. (Quran, Al-Qiyamah 75: 16-19)

Will they not think about this Quran? If it had been from
anyone other than God, they would have found much inconsistency in it.(Quran, An-Nisaa’ 4: 82)

23 If you have doubts about the revelation We have
sent down to Our servant, then produce a single sura like it– enlist whatever supportersa you have other than God– if you truly [think you can]. 24 If you cannot do this– and you never will– then beware of the Fire prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones.] (Quran, Al-Baqarah 2: 23-24)

Say, ‘Even if all mankind and jinn came together to produce
something like this Quran, they could not produce anything like it, however much they helped each other.’]
(Quran, Al-Israa’ 17: 88)