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The Downfall And Lies Of A Biased Liberal And Atheist Websource -- Wikipedia

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
>>>> PARTIAL QUOTE>>>> <<<<<<PARTIAL QUOTE<<<<<

Are you afraid to admit the truth? Develop away, begin with impeccable science, however until it meets sciences own criteria for theory it is a half done non-theory with a good respectable starting point. It was not falsifiable and it did not make even ONE verifiable prediction for years, that is not science my friend that is a half baked speculative idea that looked so good and was worked on so long by so many highly liked very much esteemed good ole (secular) boys that it just had to be an accepted theory. God help that ST mess if it was proposed by the discovery group ! That it was not rejected and was instead accepted as good or important theory is a lovely example of the double standard that still exists in the minds and hearts of the 'secular science establishment' and most of its members.
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Bold is confusing and non-science.
I gave the reference concerning the origins of string theory and you are ignoring it. It is not a matter of truth. Science does not deal in truth. All theories and hypothesis are based previous knowledge, and objective verifiable evidence since Newton and before.

I will make it clear, the non-science I refer to is the philosophical and theological beliefs, propositions, and hypothesis that cannot be falsified by objective verifiable evidence.
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Thanks for your reply S.dragon even if you are promoting harmony of religions as per your religion doctrine in a rather strange way!

Peace on earth ~ and among purveyors of all faiths except for those that employ violence as a means to an end ~
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I am not sure what you are expecting of a generalization of Baha'is, maybe some kind of uniform bland tripping through the daisies without serious challenges and debate.

My way is serious and take my belief is seriously. Actually, I am a Socratic skeptic philosophically, and challenge everything including at times issues in the Baha'i Faith.

You may not agree with me, but my arguments are well grounded in references and a good background in science, philosophy and religion.

My problem of many of your responses is there is a high fog index for science, and seriously question your distinction between science, and philosophy and theology.
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
Bold is confusing and non-science.
I gave the reference concerning the origins of string theory and you are ignoring it. It is not a matter of truth. Science does not deal in truth. All theories and hypothesis are based previous knowledge, and objective verifiable evidence since Newton and before.

I will make it clear, the non-science I refer to is the philosophical and theological beliefs, propositions, and hypothesis that cannot be falsified by objective verifiable evidence.

I ignored nothing. I said the origins of string theory has nothing to do with its false status as a theory. I made ST an example to show the double standard of secular science. A metaphysical theory wouldn't stand a chance if it were not testable etc. The real problem goes back to secular sciences double standard. The real reason MOST secular types cling to 'string almost a theory' is because it vets or provides a bit of weak evidence for another not testable theory that science wants the world to accept. That would be the MWI (many worlds interpretation). IF the MWI could be made somewhat palatable secular science could easily and completely discredit much evidence of a ID by eliminating the creation point or the universe having a beginning. Anyway I am tired of attempting to push a rope. Select one of the below, maybe yo will understand their same reasons I have for rejecting string theory as not being theory (unless it has been making verifiable predictions and has become testable, I have not been keeping up the latest on ST for the last couple three years. What follows are web sites that parrot the same concerns I have of ST not being true theory. Maybe hearing it from someone else will convince you of your errors.

From the web;

Does Science Need Falsifiability? - The Nature of Reality — The Nature of Reality | PBS

Why String Theory Is Not A Scientific Theory - Forbes
https://www.forbes.com/.../2015/12/23/why-string-theory-is-not-science

Dec 23, 2015 · Why String Theory Is Not ... Newtonian gravity superseded Kepler’s laws because of its additional predictive power, ... no, string theory has not yet ...

Why String Theory Is Not A Scientific Theory – Starts With ...
https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/why-string-theory-is-not-a...

Why String Theory Is Not A Scientific Theory. ... Kepler’s laws because of its additional predictive power, ... no, string theory is not a scientific theory.

Or try some of these...;

string theory isn't theory cant be falsefied no pridictive power - Bing

11-24 of 81,300 results

God bless you and our forum, hey God bless me too!

I should have hit the sack when I said I was going to.....

Pray without ceasing my brothers and sisters ~

1 Thessalonians 5:17 17

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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I ignored nothing. I said the origins of string theory has nothing to do with its false status as a theory. I made ST an example to show the double standard of secular science. A metaphysical theory wouldn't stand a chance if it were not testable etc. The real problem goes back to secular sciences double standard. The real reason MOST secular types cling to 'string almost a theory' is because it vets or provides a bit of weak evidence for another not testable theory that science wants the world to accept. That would be the MWI (many worlds interpretation). IF the MWI could be made somewhat palatable secular science could easily and completely discredit much evidence of a ID by eliminating the creation point or the universe having a beginning. Anyway I am tired of attempting to push a rope. Select one of the below, maybe yo will understand their same reasons I have for rejecting string theory as not being theory (unless it has been making verifiable predictions and has become testable, I have not been keeping up the latest on ST for the last couple three years. What follows are web sites that parrot the same concerns I have of ST not being true theory. Maybe hearing it from someone else will convince you of your errors.

From the web;

Does Science Need Falsifiability? - The Nature of Reality — The Nature of Reality | PBS

Why String Theory Is Not A Scientific Theory - Forbes
https://www.forbes.com/.../2015/12/23/why-string-theory-is-not-science

Dec 23, 2015 · Why String Theory Is Not ... Newtonian gravity superseded Kepler’s laws because of its additional predictive power, ... no, string theory has not yet ...

Why String Theory Is Not A Scientific Theory – Starts With ...
https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/why-string-theory-is-not-a...

Why String Theory Is Not A Scientific Theory. ... Kepler’s laws because of its additional predictive power, ... no, string theory is not a scientific theory.

Or try some of these...;

string theory isn't theory cant be falsefied no pridictive power - Bing

11-24 of 81,300 results

God bless you and our forum, hey God bless me too!

I should have hit the sack when I said I was going to.....

Pray without ceasing my brothers and sisters ~

1 Thessalonians 5:17 17

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It is not a question whether string theory will eventually be falsified in a modified form or eventually discarded. It was a question of how string theory was developed. The point of the article is that the variations of the theories and hypothesis, called string theory, originated in existing science of physics and Quantum Mechanics, and not non-science. Your claim is clearly bogus.

Websites and detractors can parrot many things, but it is not necessarily science. Parrots are not scientists.

The case is still out on string theory.
 
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MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
I am not sure what you are expecting of a generalization of Baha'is, maybe some kind of uniform bland tripping through the daisies without serious challenges and debate.

Hi my friend (I hope). Well I have the same problem with some well meaning people and some not so well meaning when it comes to Christianity. Many have the wrong idea of what Christianity is. Your religion is not well known and so all I have to go in is what is in the web and your explanations. I do not mind debate and in my opinion you are well versed in debate and most of the subject matter we discuss. Lastly will say I think Christianity/Judaism as Jesus taught it is somewhat similar to your Baha'i faith in some issues like compassion and harmony of brother to brother (and sisters).

My way is serious and take my belief is seriously. Actually, I am a Socratic skeptic philosophically, and challenge everything including at times issues in the Baha'i Faith.

The same here S.dragon but I wouldn't say I am closely aligned (agree with) with Socratic theory but I certainly do have a problem with 'absolutes' which of course tends to anger my theist peers. I would be comfortable being described as a philosophical skeptic.

You may not agree with me, but my arguments are well grounded in references and a good background in science, philosophy and religion.

I agree with far more of your core ideas' than I disagree with.

My problem of many of your responses is there is a high fog index for science, and seriously question your distinction between science, and philosophy and theology.

Fog? What me foggy? Lol, I am not intentionally deceptive and do not intentionally over generalize with members I respect such as you. I would like to have more time to answer this but I am already late. Let me say that I feel there is little difference between science and philosophy but theology is a different animal than the other two. I know that won't fly so I will attempt to clarify it when I return ~

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MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
It is not a question whether string theory will eventually be falsified in a modified form or eventually discarded. It was a question of how string theory was developed. The point of the article is that the variations of the theories and hypothesis, called string theory, originated in existing science of physics and Quantum Mechanics, and not non-science. Your claim is clearly bogus.

The case is still out on string theory.

I think you have forgot the only reason I picked string theory was for an example of how, in most cases secular science and its establishment embraces and fawns over bad theory if and only if It promotes the current secular or atheistic status quo and is fielded by atheist scientists. How ST was created has no bearing on what I was attempting to show.

For example you insist on lauding the noble beginning /creation of string theory and how eminent physicists (Hi Mr B Green!) and mathematicians worked diligently to produce 'non-predictive string wanna be theory'. Why do that? It is still not theory if it does not meet its own criteria for what constitutes theory. End of story. When and if it does become theory I will stop using it as an example of the double standard of science and ID.
Websites and detractors can parrot many things, but it is not necessarily science. Parrots are not scientists.

I suppose all those sources I gave you, such as NOVA on PBS and studies mentioned by the sites were bogus? There were a hundred thousand hits where I am sure you could find a site that you would consider credible etc. Or do you really think they were placed there for as you suggest 'detraction'??? etc. Lol, now that is rich SD.

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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I think you have forgot the only reason I picked string theory was for an example of how, in most cases secular science and its establishment embraces and fawns over bad theory if and only if It promotes the current secular or atheistic status quo and is fielded by atheist scientists. How ST was created has no bearing on what I was attempting to show.

What you indicated specifically was it originated from non-science, and that is clearly false, based on the source I cited.

For example you insist on lauding the noble beginning /creation of string theory and how eminent physicists (Hi Mr B Green!) and mathematicians worked diligently to produce 'non-predictive string wanna be theory'. Why do that? It is still not theory if it does not meet its own criteria for what constitutes theory. End of story. When and if it does become theory I will stop using it as an example of the double standard of science and ID.

I laud over nothing, and string theory is neither rejected nor accepted as the theory of the day. In fact as you described it has evolved into other theories.

As far as I am concerned 'string theory (s)' is simply a set of descriptive theories that have shown predictive value concerning the behavior of the basic particles of matter. It will likely evolve into better theories that 'descriptively' explain the properties of the basic particles and matter/energy relationships involved. Of course, 'string theory(s) have weaknesses, that is the way of the evolving theories and hypothesis of Physics and cosmology. Like Newton's physics and theories are glaringly weak concerning the micro scale nature of our physical existence, but nonetheless it has descriptive value for the nature of our physical existence engineers apply to our world every day.

I suppose all those sources I gave you, such as NOVA on PBS and studies mentioned by the sites were bogus?

No I did not say that.

There were a hundred thousand hits where I am sure you could find a site that you would consider credible etc. Or do you really think they were placed there for as you suggest 'detraction'??? etc. Lol, now that is rich SD.

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There is no comparison between string theory and ID, and referenced the theory right or wrong did not originate from non-science.
 
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Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
Because of Wales, it cannot be trusted. A few of the shocking facts,

"1) Wikipedia claims to be run by "volunteers" but is actually edited by corporate-paid trolls on many topics such as GMOs, vaccines, chemotherapy and pharmaceuticals."

...

"5) Jimmy Wales is a key operator of the "Hillary Clinton protection network" that cleanses the Clinton entry of all facts about Hillary's crimes and acts of treason against America"
...

6) Wikipedia also distributed child porn. "The parent company of Wikipedia is knowingly distributing child pornography..." said Larry Sanger, co-founder of Wikipedia""
...

7) Jimmy Wales openly despises natural medicine and the healing arts, deliberately allowing corporate-funded Wikipedia editors to disparage authors, naturopaths, doctors and practitioners who help people heal
...

10) The Wikipedia extortion racket is a reflection of the total lack of ethics practiced by Jimmy Wales himself"

++++++++


Wrong again, shuny, about Britannica not sharing my views. What you're doing is using a straw man as misdirection. Let's stick with evolution.

"Social Darwinism was an influential social philosophy in some circles through the late 19th and early 20th centuries, when it was used as a rationalization for racism, colonialism, and social stratification. At the other end of the political spectrum, Marxist theorists have resorted to evolution by natural selection as an explanation for humankind’s political history."

...

"The term evolution and the general concept of change through time also have penetrated into scientific language well beyond biology and even into common language. Astrophysicists speak of the evolution of the solar system or of the universe; geologists, of the evolution of Earth’s interior; psychologists, of the evolution of the mind; anthropologists, of the evolution of cultures; art historians, of the evolution of architectural styles; and couturiers, of the evolution of fashion. These and other disciplines use the word with only the slightest commonality of meaning—the notion of gradual, and perhaps directional, change over the course of time."

...

"Darwinism understood as a process that favours the strong and successful and eliminates the weak and failing has been used to justify alternative and, in some respects, quite diametric economic theories (see economics). These theories share in common the premise that the valuation of all market products depends on a Darwinian process. Specific market commodities are evaluated in terms of the degree to which they conform to specific valuations emanating from the consumers. On the one hand, some of these economic theories are consistent with theories of evolutionary psychology that see preferences as determined largely genetically; as such, they hold that the reactions of markets can be predicted in terms of largely fixed human attributes. The dominant neo-Keynesian (see economics: Keynesian economics) and monetarist schools of economics make predictions of the macroscopic behaviour of economies (see macroeconomics) based the interrelationship of a few variables; money supply, rate of inflation, and rate of unemployment jointly determine the rate of economic growth. On the other hand, some minority economists, such as the 20th-century Austrian-born British theorist F.A. Hayek and his followers, predicate the Darwinian process on individual preferences that are mostly underdetermined and change in erratic or unpredictable ways. According to them, old ways of producing goods and services are continuously replaced by new inventions and behaviours. These theorists affirm that what drives the economy is the ingenuity of individuals and corporations and their ability to bring new and better products to the market."

We have the "Religious criticism and acceptance" section.

"The theory of evolution has been seen by some people as incompatible with religious beliefs, particularly those of Christianity. The first chapters of the biblical book of Genesis describe God’s creation of the world, the plants, the animals, and human beings. A literal interpretation of Genesis seems incompatible with the gradual evolution of humans and other organisms by natural processes. Independently of the biblical narrative, the Christian beliefs in the immortality of the soul and in humans as “created in the image of God” have appeared to many as contrary to the evolutionary origin of humans from nonhuman animals."

It even has a section on Intelligent Design criticism.

"William Paley’s Natural Theology, the book by which he has become best known to posterity, is a sustained argument explaining the obvious design of humans and their parts, as well as the design of all sorts of organisms, in themselves and in their relations to one another and to their environment. Paley’s keystone claim is that “there cannot be design without a designer; contrivance, without a contriver; order, without choice;…means suitable to an end, and executing their office in accomplishing that end, without the end ever having been contemplated.” His book has chapters dedicated to the complex design of the human eye; to the human frame, which, he argues, displays a precise mechanical arrangement of bones, cartilage, and joints; to the circulation of the blood and the disposition of blood vessels; to the comparative anatomy of humans and animals; to the digestive system, kidneys, urethra, and bladder; to the wings of birds and the fins of fish; and much more. For more than 300 pages, Paley conveys extensive and accurate biological knowledge in such detail and precision as was available in 1802, the year of the book’s publication. After his meticulous description of each biological object or process, Paley draws again and again the same conclusion—only an omniscient and omnipotent deity could account for these marvels and for the enormous diversity of inventions that they entail."
This list comes from a site that propagates pseudoscience in order to sell products. I don't put much faith in it as a source to base my conclusions on.
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
What you indicated specifically was it originated from non-science, and that is clearly false, based on the source I cited.

You misunderstood me! String theory originated from BAD SCIENCE and did not meet Logical Empirical methodology, you know the scientific method that demands a theory must be falsifiable and be able to make verifiable predictions which string theory failed to do. I quit checking a year or two ago but I think even today ST has made no hard verifiable predictions. AGAIN I was using ST to irrefutably prove (or so I had hoped) that the secular scientific establishment has and has had a biased DOUBLE standard for a century against anything metaphysical spiritual (spiritual metaphysics is not the correct term but I am too lazy to google it) . If 'ST like' (having no predictive power etc) theory had been proposed and if it had theistic implications it would have been rejected out of hand.

I laud over nothing, and string theory is neither rejected nor accepted as the theory of the day. In fact as you described it has evolved into other theories.

Ok maybe 'laud' was bad descriptive verbiage, ok lets say you fawned over ST! lol, forgive me that bit of levity at your expense ?) You defended ST with a good bit of enthusiasm even though it does not meet the criteria for 'theory'. I did not say ST was the theory of the day, or if I did you may of took it out of context, or if I did say that it was a mistake. Please direct me to where I said ST was the theory of the day? Allow me this; I do not despise string theory, I am highly interested in such things. All I was doing was pointing out the double standard of acceptance of proposals and the rigid backward nature of rejecting out of hand all things metaphysical. The same thing happened but on a larger and more destructive scale when a group of LP'ers called the Vienna circle set in stone the Western mindset that empirical vetting is the only method to create viable theory. The horrid exclusion of all things metaphysical has harmed 'discovery for a hundred years. However, its only in the current days limitations of theoretical physics due that the harm to research has become apparent, at least to me. Since the metaphysical tools have been rejected science has found itself floundering with physics that break down at just before the 'singularity' (of the Big Bang or of a Black hole). There are other areas where our empirically vetted physics and theory's are breaking down or being outright broken such as space and the universe in whole speeding up not slowing as the models predicted. Predicted, there is that word again. Yes my friend, the harm inflicted by the (mostly atheist or secular) Logical positivist purists banning pure or even partial metaphysical theory have cost us dearly. By partial I mean a theory that is part empirically vetted and part philosophical or metaphysical 'enabled'.

As far as I am concerned 'string theory (s)' is simply a set of descriptive theories that have shown predictive value concerning the behavior of the basic particles of matter. It will likely evolve into better theories that 'descriptively' explain the properties of the basic particles and matter/energy relationships involved.

By now you might know I am not opposed to ST, rather I used it to show the double standard of secular science etc


Of course, 'string theory(s) have weaknesses, that is the way of the evolving theories and hypothesis of Physics and cosmology. Like Newton's physics and theories are glaringly weak concerning the micro scale nature of our physical existence, but nonetheless it has descriptive value for the nature of our physical existence engineers apply to our world every day.

I too have faith that string theory will produce more spinoffs etc and maybe become a true theory in time.

No I did not say that.

I revisited the quote, sorry I misread.

There is no comparison between string theory and ID, and referenced the theory right or wrong did not originate from non-science.

TRUE string theory is not theory and some ID science is better than string theory IMO such as theories or hypothesis of the origins of the universe ie what caused the big bang to begin etc. Our feeble physics only allow us to go to fractions of a nanosecond after the big bang began before they become useless. However the KCA* does allow via different forms of logic observation etc to solve or at least propose a rational explanation of how this universe came to be.

Thanks for your gnarly reply dude (lol) ~ and peace be with you via your faith ~~~~

note ;..... ReasonableFaith.org – Defend Biblical Christianity, Apologetics, Bible Questions | Reasonable Faith
My and dr Craigs ideas of the KCA are a tad different mostly concerning tensed vs nontensed time and how infinite regression problem is solved. If you visit Dr Craig version of the KCA please try to do it with an open mind.

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Yerda

Veteran Member
Ha ha. I have quit my smoking long time ago. What about the cred of heathen Jimmy Wales and Wikipedia which is the topic of thread? Can we toss him into jail and his Wikipedia into the lake of fire already because of suspicion and diminution of credibility? Because the following violates the human rights of all humans.

1) Wikipedia claims to be run by "volunteers" but is actually edited by corporate-paid trolls on many topics such as GMOs, vaccines, chemotherapy and pharmaceuticals.

2) Before launching Wikipedia, Jimmy Wales ran a porn site network called "Bomis" that featured "Bomis Babes."

3) Jimmy Wales broke up with his girlfriend by posting a message on Wikipedia. She responded by saying "You are the sleazebag I always suspected you were... You are an absolute creep."

4) Wales' girlfriend auctioned off the clothes he left behind in her New York apartment, selling them on eBay

5) Jimmy Wales is a key operator of the "Hillary Clinton protection network" that cleanses the Clinton entry of all facts about Hillary's crimes and acts of treason against America

6) Wikipedia also distributed child porn. "The parent company of Wikipedia is knowingly distributing child pornography..." said Larry Sanger, co-founder of Wikipedia

... and more.
Please, seek medical attention.
 
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