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The earth is 13,000 years old and it is soon to be renewed when Christ comes
- Thread starter FFH
- Start date
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
So if you don't have any proof, what's with all those links, the ones I responded to? And if you believe that those links support your position, how do you reply to my rebuttal of them?
Very faulty logic.
Four points from THIS page:
1. The moon is receding at about 3.8 cm per year. Since the moon is 3.85 × 1010 cm from the earth, this is already consistent, within an order of magnitude, with an earth-moon system billions of years old.
2. The magnitude of tidal friction depends on the arrangement of the continents. In the past, the continents were arranged such that tidal friction, and thus the rates of earth's slowing and the moon's recession, would have been less. The earth's rotation has slowed at a rate of two seconds every 100,000 years (Eicher 1976).
3. The rate of earth's rotation in the distant past can be measured. Corals produce skeletons with both daily layers and yearly patterns, so we can count the number of days per year when the coral grew. Measurements of fossil corals from 180 to 400 million years ago show year lengths from 381 to 410 days, with older corals showing more days per year (Eicher 1976; Scrutton 1970; Wells 1963; 1970). Similarly, days per year can also be computed from growth patterns in mollusks (Pannella 1976; Scrutton 1978) and stromatolites (Mohr 1975; Pannella et al. 1968) and from sediment deposition patterns (Williams 1997). All such measurements are consistent with a gradual rate of earth's slowing for the last 650 million years.
4. The clocks based on the slowing of earth's rotation described above provide an independent method of dating geological layers over most of the fossil record. The data is inconsistent with a young earth.
Mestemia said:
Very faulty logic.
Four points from THIS page:
1. The moon is receding at about 3.8 cm per year. Since the moon is 3.85 × 1010 cm from the earth, this is already consistent, within an order of magnitude, with an earth-moon system billions of years old.
2. The magnitude of tidal friction depends on the arrangement of the continents. In the past, the continents were arranged such that tidal friction, and thus the rates of earth's slowing and the moon's recession, would have been less. The earth's rotation has slowed at a rate of two seconds every 100,000 years (Eicher 1976).
3. The rate of earth's rotation in the distant past can be measured. Corals produce skeletons with both daily layers and yearly patterns, so we can count the number of days per year when the coral grew. Measurements of fossil corals from 180 to 400 million years ago show year lengths from 381 to 410 days, with older corals showing more days per year (Eicher 1976; Scrutton 1970; Wells 1963; 1970). Similarly, days per year can also be computed from growth patterns in mollusks (Pannella 1976; Scrutton 1978) and stromatolites (Mohr 1975; Pannella et al. 1968) and from sediment deposition patterns (Williams 1997). All such measurements are consistent with a gradual rate of earth's slowing for the last 650 million years.
4. The clocks based on the slowing of earth's rotation described above provide an independent method of dating geological layers over most of the fossil record. The data is inconsistent with a young earth.
FFH
Veteran Member
There will always be a false opposing postition to these things on either side...Tiberius said:
Let us all examine the data and decide for ourselves...no need to hash over it excessively...
If I see something in any of your posts that needs a rebuttal I will do so. But for now it's just my link against your link...
No need to give our comentaries, we are not the experts....
FFH
Veteran Member
Joseph Smith Translation 2 Peter 3:8Anti-World said:
But concerning the coming of the Lord, beloved, I would not have you ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.
King James 2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Moses 7:64
And there shall be mine abode, and it shall be Zion, which shall come forth out of all the creations which I have made; and for the space of a thousand years the earth shall rest.
Moses 7:65 And it came to pass that Enoch saw the day of the coming of the Son of Man, in the last days, to dwell on the earth in righteousness for the space of a thousand years;
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
FFH said:
If my information is false, then you'll be able to show WHY it is false. Yes, we should all examine the data, however, the data you provided not only presents a distorted view of facts, it only presented one side of the argument. hence, I provided the other side.
My links effectively demonstrate WHY your links are incorrect. And not all of my post was links, I had a lot in mine that isn't just cut-n-paste.
No need to give our commentaries? That didn't stop you from posting a great slab of links earlier, did it? Why is it that you only say those things when you have had your position trounced?
FFH
Veteran Member
I realize that...Tiberius said:
Links, not commentaries....
You can challenge my postition and I welcome it....
Sorry, if I sounded harsh....I just think it's pointless to make comments on these things outside of our field of knowledge....
You may have some information I am not privy to, but are they facts or just theories..
It seems much of what scientists say is mostly theory, with some facts mixed in....
No one knows how old the earth is exactly, but I believe it to be young, not old, and by the patterns set forth in scripture, I believe it to be 13,000 years old approximately...
I could be off by thousands of years. I don't see any days/1,000 year periods between Eve being created and her eating the forbidden fruit and there is really no information about that, so I look to the patterns set forth in scripture to give me clues.
FFH
Veteran Member
Scriptures concerning Christ's coming are obscure, which they are meant to be, in order to hide them from the world.SoyLeche said:
The Joseph Smith Translation of 2 Peter 3:8 is what I have based my opening post theory on, and a perfect example of an obscure scripture, meant not for the world to understand.
Christ will come some time at the beginning of the 7th millenium, and there are many more who believe this. This is not an obscure belief, but many see this millenium as a period of rest, when Christ will come and set up his kingdom and we will all rest from our labors.
No more pain no more tears shed...
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
FFH said:
Well, if you are able to I'd appreciate it. I am striving for the truth, and if you are able to prove to me that what I have posted is not the truth, I'd be grateful if you would enlighten me. Thus I conclude that the only thing that would prevent you from replying to my rebuttal of the points you linked to is the fact that you are unable to.
And who posted information by experts? You or me?
Which is why I posted information provided by experts in the fields involved. You have not.
Why this constant school of thought that "Just a theory" means it's an unsupported idea? IT IS NOT. A scientific theory is as close to fact as it will ever get. Read THIS webpage and then never say, "Just a theory" ever again.
I trust that when you have read the page I just linked to you will see how ridiculous this argument is.
Even though the idea of a young earth is DIRECTLY CONTRADICTED by testable, repeatable and verifiable evidences provided by science?
I propose that any hypothesis provided as an attempt to explain a young earth must also explain why science incorrectly indicates an old earth. This has never been done.
interesting thing about that 1000 years = a day, and a day = 1000 years.
If a human day can be 1000 years to God, then a thousand years should be equal to 365000 years, yes? Multiply that by 13 and it gives us nearly 5 milion years. And we can keep going, converting to days and then multiplying by a thousand years to make the universe as old as we like. You have taken only one part of the verse that you claim to use, and then used it in an arbitrary manner.
FFH said:
I have shown how your "scientific evidences" supporting a young earth are complete nonsense, and how your interpretation of the scriptures is arbitrary.
Your claim is not based on anything solid.
McBell
Unbound
Interesting.FFH said:
So God is in fact the author of confusion.FFH said:
Besides which, the whole "It makes no sense because God made it that way" is a rather faulty defense for several reasons:
It is a vaguely concealed appeal to divinity fallacy
You next have to show that your particular interpretation is the correct one
You need show it without using the excuse that not everyone was meant to understand.
Because the use of that particular excuse is merely circular reasoning.
You next have to show that your particular interpretation is the correct one
You need show it without using the excuse that not everyone was meant to understand.
Because the use of that particular excuse is merely circular reasoning.
Argumentum ad populumFFH said:
Some other examples of it are:
Tomatoes are poisonous
The Earth is flat
a horse hair left in a rain barrel will turn into a worm
The Earth is flat
a horse hair left in a rain barrel will turn into a worm
FFH
Veteran Member
We've already been down that road and it seemed pointless to address this question at the time, because we seem to disagree on this subject, which is the basis of many prophecies, parables, etc. in order to disguise/hide them from the world...SoyLeche said:
Matthew 7: 6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
3 Nephi 14: 6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Doctrine and Covenants 41: 6
For it is not meet that the things which belong to the children of the kingdom should be given to them that are not worthy, or to dogs, or the pearls to be cast before swine.
symbols
analogies
metaphors
similes
I knew you would take notice of the as in that scripture (2 Peter 3:8) and give me a hard time about it. This conversation went through my head when I first posted it....
"One day is as a thousand years"
It would appear as if this is just another comparison to something else and one might conclude that one day is not actually a thousand years with the Lord, but as a thousand years..
This is basically the same thing as saying one day is a thousand years, but not as accurate a statement as saying one day is as a thousand years. Meaning it's not exactly a thousand years, but very close to it....so we don't know exactly when Christ will come, but the general time frame.....
It's meant to be this way so we don't know exactly when Christ will come, because all might party it up until the last day and then try to repent. It doesn't work that way, we need to be ready now by striving to keep the commandments now....
Christ could come at any time...we are in that general time frame of the new millenium, when we will rest from all our cares if we are worthy when Christ comes.
Doctrine and Covenants 51: 20
(LDS scripture)
Verily, I say unto you, I am Jesus Christ, who cometh quickly, in an hour you think not. Even so. Amen.
Matthew 24: 44
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
An hour when ye think not, to me would be, when everything is going well, for the most part, with the saints...
I think there will be a period of peace and prosperity like we have never seen before and then Christ will come.
This is what happened to the city of Enoch. They had all things in common and then were translated to heaven because the Lord could not hold back those blessings due to them because of their righteousness.
Christ won't come unless we have reached a certain level of righteousness, which I think will be soon....
I can almost predict what you are going to say next...
FFH
Veteran Member
I know most everyone scoffed at the link www.creationevidence.orgTiberius said:
The director of that museum and that site is: www.DrCarlBaugh.com
From this page: http://www.faithcenteredresources.com/authors/carl-baugh.asp
Profile - Dr. Baugh
Dr. Carl Edward Baugh is founder and director of Creation Evidence Museum, Glen Rose, Texas; scientific research director for world's first hyperbaric biosphere; scientific research director for water reclamation and energized plant systems; and the discoverer and excavation director of two major dinosaurs: Acrocanthosaurus in Texas and Stegosaurus stenops in Colorado.
Dr. Baugh holds a degree in theology from Baptist Bible College, a Masters in archaeology, and a Ph.D. in education, both from Pacific College of Graduate Studies. He is the founder and hosts the Creation & 21st Century weekly television broadcast that airs on the TBN network worldwide and currently is ranked as one of the networks most popular programs.
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
FFH said:
Well, forgive me, maybe I am missing something, but it seems that the best way to hide something from the world is to
NOT WRITE IT DOWN
.If the details of Christ's return are to be hidden from the world, there shouldn't be any record of them at all!
In any case, even Jesus said he didn't know when it was going to occur. Are you seriously telling us that you've been able to do something that not even the Son of God was able to do?
FFH
Veteran Member
Tiberius said:
No, because then the righteous followers of Christ would not know when to look for his coming, which he himself has commanded us to do..
I don't claim to know the day or hour, only a general time frame, in which Christ wants us to be aware of. Christ will return when the Father sends him to redeem us. This information, as to the exact day and hour, was witheld from us, and his son Jesus Christ, the reason being unclear. Why would the Father not want Christ to know when he would be sent to earth to redeem us from this fallen existence ??? I can understand him not wanting us to know the day or hour, but I can't understand why Christ would not be allowed to know.... I do however think that Christ knows the general time frame, for he revealed the events that would happen just before he returns. So he also knows the general time frame, but is waiting for direction from his Father as to the exact day and hour he will be sent to redeem us from this fallen world.
These things are kept hidden from the world/wicked but to the righteous he reveals all truth...
The righteous discern the times and prepare for Christ's coming, while the world/wicked mock at such things...
The righteous are living in this world, but are not of it...