The earth is 13,000 years old and it is soon to be renewed when Christ comes

[painted wolf]

"MOD POST"
Please refrain from personal attacks and insults. It will not be tolerated, if you can't play we will step in. Thanks.

 

[FFH]

"MOD POST"
Please refrain from personal attacks and insults. It will not be tolerated, if you can't play we will step in. Thanks.

This is the stuff I was trying to avoid and one of the reasons I remain relatively silent..

 

[FFH]

I want to switch back a bit to a more Biblical view of creation for a minute, which seems to keep me out of trouble with mainstream science advocates and may calm things down a bit...

The premise for my argument/the opening post is based on scripture and my understanding of science, however there was no science to back up this scripture in Abraham 3, that I was aware of, until I came across the video previously posted entitled "The Center of the Universe", which claims there is a center to our universe named Orion, which Dr. Gentry claims is the Lord's throne upon which he rules and reigns in righteousness.

A parallel planet to our earth, named Kolob, which is the same distance from the Lord's throne/planet/galaxy, is described as being "near unto" the Lord, who exists/dwells possibly at the center of our universe, the Orion galaxy..

The planet Kolob has a ratio, as does ours, of one revolution per thousand, respective to the planet the Lord reigns from, which we now call heaven.

Abraham 3

3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.

4 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord’s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob (which is parallel, or same distance, as earth, from the planet where the Lord rules and reigns from).

5 And the Lord said unto me: The planet which is the lesser light, lesser than that which is to rule the day, even the night, is above or greater than that upon which thou standest in point of reckoning, for it moveth in order more slow; this is in order because it standeth above the earth upon which thou standest, therefore the reckoning of its time is not so many as to its number of days, and of months, and of years.

6 And the Lord said unto me: Now, Abraham, these two facts exist, behold thine eyes see it; it is given unto thee to know the times of reckoning, and the set time, yea, the set time of the earth upon which thou standest, and the set time of the greater light which is set to rule the day, and the set time of the lesser light which is set to rule the night.

7 Now the set time of the lesser light is a longer time as to its reckoning than the reckoning of the time of the earth upon which thou standest.

8 And where these two facts exist, there shall be another fact above them, that is, there shall be another planet whose reckoning of time shall be longer still;

9 And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.

10 And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God.

 

[FFH]

Abraham 3:4

....one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. (speaking to Abraham who was on the earth) This is the reckoning of the Lord’s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob (which is the same distance as the earth from where the Lord rules and reigns on his respective planet, which we now call heaven)..

The "pesky" "as" word is curiously missing SoyLeche...

No mistaking the reckoning of time with the Lord as compared to earth here...

It seems as if my reckoning of time and the length of the earth's existence is correct, according to scripture, unless there was a long period of time between the creation of Eve on the seventh day and the "fall".

My theory assumes the "fall" happened at the same day Eve was created, which I believe happened simply because of the scripture which states, men are "quick to do iniquity".

Alma 46: 8
(Book of Mormon)
Thus we see how quick the children of men do forget the Lord their God, yea, how quick to do iniquity, and to be led away by the evil one.

Helamen 12: 4
(Book of Mormon)
O how foolish, and how vain, and how evil, and devilish, and how quick to do iniquity, and how slow to do good, are the children of men; yea, how quick to hearken unto the words of the evil one, and to set their hearts upon the vain things of the world!
Each day they spent in the Garden of Eden would add a thousand years, respectively, to my theory.

 

[s2a]

"MOD POST"
Please refrain from personal attacks and insults. It will not be tolerated, if you can't play we will step in. Thanks.

It would be helpful and instructive to everyone if you would actually illustrate/articulate what/which comments you might qualify as such.

Otherwise, your mod "caution" seems little more that an vapid platitude of painfully obvious counsel, and does nothing to further the debate at hand.

Just sayin'...

 

[painted wolf]

.) While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks or inflammatory posts. We will allow faith to be debated and discussed by a member only when there is no hostile, rude, or insulting opinion of another's faith. The same applies to international conflicts; hostile, rude or insulting opinions of one of the sides to an international conflict will not be allowed. These restrictions to an open debate or discussion also apply to material linked and/or quoted from another site. Our decision is final in these matters.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_new_faq_item
I hope that this is clear enough for all to understand. Hopefully you are all capable of telling what comments are and arn't in accordance to this rule.

 

[DeepShadow]

The "pesky" "as" word is curiously missing SoyLeche...

Which might mean we're dealing with a metaphor instead of a simile. After all, a metaphor is a simile that is missing the "like" or "as."

My theory assumes the "fall" happened at the same day Eve was created, which I believe happened simply because of the scripture which states, men are "quick to do iniquity".

That's a gross assumption. "Quickly" doesn't mean "the same day" or even "the earliest available opportunity." Otherwise, you're making the Lord a liar in Revelations when he says, "behold, I come quickly." Modern commentators from the church have interpreted this to mean "in a quick manner" rather than "soon." By the same token, the scriptures you quote could be talking about the swiftness of man's degradation rather than the timing of it.

 

[SoyLeche]

Abraham 3:4

....one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. (speaking to Abraham who was on the earth) This is the reckoning of the Lord’s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob (which is the same distance as the earth from where the Lord rules and reigns on his respective planet, which we now call heaven)..

The "pesky" "as" word is curiously missing SoyLeche...

No mistaking the reckoning of time with the Lord as compared to earth here...

It seems as if my reckoning of time and the length of the earth's existence is correct, according to scripture, unless there was a long period of time between the creation of Eve on the seventh day and the "fall".

My theory assumes the "fall" happened at the same day Eve was created, which I believe happened simply because of the scripture which states, men are "quick to do iniquity".

Alma 46: 8
(Book of Mormon)
Thus we see how quick the children of men do forget the Lord their God, yea, how quick to do iniquity, and to be led away by the evil one.

Helamen 12: 4
(Book of Mormon)
O how foolish, and how vain, and how evil, and devilish, and how quick to do iniquity, and how slow to do good, are the children of men; yea, how quick to hearken unto the words of the evil one, and to set their hearts upon the vain things of the world!
Each day they spent in the Garden of Eden would add a thousand years, respectively, to my theory.

Seriously - read the Hugh Nibbley article.

 

[FFH]

Which might mean we're dealing with a metaphor instead of a simile. After all, a metaphor is a simile that is missing the "like" or "as."

There is no mistaking this scripture as being non metaphorical...
Abraham 3

3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.

4 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord’s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob

That's a gross assumption. "Quickly" doesn't mean "the same day" or even "the earliest available opportunity." Otherwise, you're making the Lord a liar in Revelations when he says, "behold, I come quickly." Modern commentators from the church have interpreted this to mean "in a quick manner" rather than "soon." By the same token, the scriptures you quote could be talking about the swiftness of man's degradation rather than the timing of it.

If you tell a child, who is innocent, not to do or touch something, what's the first thing he/she does when they think you are not looking ???

 

[SoyLeche]

From the Nibbley article:

The questions most commonly asked are: When did it happen? How long did it take? Our texts make it very clear that we are not to measure the time and periods involved by our chronometers and calendars. Until Adam underwent that fatal change of habitat, body chemistry, diet, and psyche that went with the Fall, nothing is to be measured in our years, "for the Gods had not appointed unto Adam his reckoning." (Abraham 5:13.) Until then, time is measured from their point of view, not ours. As far as we are concerned it can be any time, and there would be no point to insisting on this again and again if all we had to do to convert their time to our time was multiply our years by 365,000. Theirs was a different time. The only numbers we are given designated the phases of periods of creation: "and this was the second time" (Abraham 4:8), "and it was the third time" (4:13), and so on. The periods are numbered but never measured. The Gods called them "days," but the text is at great pains to make clear that it was day and night from their point of view, when our time had not yet been appointed. "And the Gods called the light Day, and the darkness they called Night. And . . . from the evening until morning they called night; . . . and this was the first, or the beginning, of that which they called day and night. (Abraham 4:5.) Doctrine and Covenants 130:4–5 explains that "the reckoning of God's time, angel's time, prophet's time, and man's time [is] according to the planet on which they reside." That implies different time schemes at least. In moving from one system to another one also changes one's timing. "There are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it. (D&C 130:5.)

"It was from morning until evening that they called day; and it was the fifth time." (Abraham 4:23.) How long is such a time? In the "fourth time," we read, "the Gods watched those things which they had ordered until they obeyed." (Abraham 4:19, 18.) That important word "until" tells us two things: (1) that they took all the time that was necessary, no matter how long it might have been, measuring the period in terms not of a terminal date but in terms of the requirements of the task; (2) "until" means up till a certain time, but not thereafter. When things were running smoothly, they were left on their own, which implies a shift from one time-scale to another. When, for example, "the Gods prepared the earth to bring forth" (Abraham 4:24), after they had prepared the waters to do the same long before, how long do you think that took? Again, the record is deliberately vague.

I don't see why you insist that converting from "God's time" to "Man's time" is as simple as applying a scalar.

 

[athanasius]

The earth is 13,000 years old and it is soon to be renewed when Christ comes?


I believe that you are completely wrong. How dare you lie to us telling us that the earth is 13,000 years old when you know that The earth is really 13,001 years twenty one minutes and five seconds old! shame on you!

 

[SoyLeche]

If you tell a child, who is innocent, not to do or touch something, what's the first thing he/she does when they think you are not looking ???

I know! I know!

Pick his nose.

 

[FFH]

Seriously - read the Hugh Nibbley article.

Soy, I'm very familiar with Hugh's work.

I've read the article you've posted and used to faithfully tune in to his lectures, on KBYU, every Sunday, while taking my Sunday nap...:thud:

He doesn't seem to be able to stay on one subject, which is very typical of someone who has too many facts and figures stored up in their brain. Genius' do this to the point that no one can follow their train of thought, because they are in their own small world. He focuses on too many details, both false and true, those with merit and those without, all the while seeming to lose track of the overall picture, which is painted quite clearly in scripture...

I see this happen all the time...

The picture is clouded with too many true and false details...

 

[SoyLeche]

Soy, I'm very familiar with Hugh's work.

I've read the article you've posted and used to faithfully tune in to his lectures, on KBYU, every Sunday, while taking my Sunday nap...:thud:

He doesn't seem to be able to stay on one subject, which is very typical of someone who has too many facts and figures stored up in their brain. Genius' do this to the point that no one can follow their train of thought, because they are in their own small world. He focuses on too many details, both false and true, those with merit and those without, all the while seeming to lose track of the overall picture, which is painted quite clearly in scripture...

I see this happen all the time...

The picture is clouded with too many true and false details...

Would you like to discuss what he said, or just leave it at the ad hominem? Because, really, that's irrelevant.

 

[FFH]

I know! I know!

My thoery assumes Eve, after being created and told not to partake of the forbidden fruit, promptly disobeyed and ate it anyway, due to it being forbidden, not to mention very tempting.

Adam and Eve possibly thought God might not notice or wasn't looking.

Those kids...

:run:

 

[SoyLeche]

My thoery assumes Eve, after being created and told not to partake of the forbidden fruit, promptly disobeyed and ate it anyway, due to it being forbidden, not to mention tempting.

Adam and Eve thought God might not notice or wasn't looking.

Those kids...

:run:

You don't understand the LDS position on Adam and Eve very well then.

 

[FFH]

You don't understand the LDS position on Adam and Eve very well then.

Of course it was necessary for Adam and Eve to eat of the fruit, so that "men might be" but it doesn't erase the fact that what they did was wrong.

The Lord knew that Adam and Eve would disobey his commandment to not eat of the "forbidden fruit".

What is there not to understand ???

Just trying to get into the mind of two innocent beings, Adam and Eve, who were in the very same state that "little children" are in, being innocent an incapable of sinning, but capable of transgressing the law's of God, which caused them to become mortal beings, being then subject to death and sin...

What is it that you don't think I understand ???

 

[SoyLeche]

Of course it was necessary for Adam and Eve to eat of the fruit, so that "men might be" but it doesn't erase the fact that what they did was wrong.

The Lord knew that Adam and Eve would disobey his commandment to not eat of the "forbidden fruit".

What is there not to understand ???

Just trying to get into the mind of two innocent beings, Adam and Eve, who were in the very same state that "little children" are in, being innocent an incapable of sinning, but capable of transgressing the law's of God, which caused them to become mortal beings, being then subject to death and sin...

What is it that you don't think I understand ???

The fact that partaking of the fruit was a well thought out decision on Eve's part. She knew full well what would happen, and chose to go that path. She didn't think she was "getting away" with anything.

 

[SoyLeche]

The picture is clouded with too many true and false details...

And so many others are to clouded by what they want to see to see clearly.

 

[FFH]

The fact that partaking of the fruit was a well thought out decision on Eve's part. She knew full well what would happen, and chose to go that path. She didn't think she was "getting away" with anything.

Okay true, she knew she would be cast out of the Garden, but I don't think she knew how bad it would be outside the Garden in a mortal world, she herself then becoming mortal, being subject to affects of sin and death... \

She and Adam had a limited view/knowledge of what the consequences of transgressing the laws of God would be, just as we cannot comprehend the pains of hell, so we risk sinning to a certain degree, thinking ah maybe it's not that bad....

That's all I'm saying....