The Earth Is a Few Thousand Years Old

[freethinker44]

I have never heard anyone make this argument. I think it's a straw man. In other words, I think it is something made up by those who are against theism or don’t agree with organized religion.

Nope, not a straw man at all. As sad as it is, some people actually do believe the Earth is 6 to 10 thousand years old.

The arguments:
How old is the earth? - Answers in Genesis
Seriously? Arizona State Senator Sylvia Allen says, "Earth is 6,000 years old" - National liberal | Examiner.com
Biblical Age of the Earth | Creation Today

Some statistics:
In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins
Poll: Many Protestant Pastors Lean Toward Young Earth Creation

 

[allright]

Possible Explanation

The Bible is accurate
Knowing men will want to reject the Bible
God creates the universe in such a way that mans science will seem
to prove the earth is much older and that evolution created man

For this reason God sends on then a strong delusion that they should believe a lie that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth Thessalonians 2:11,12

Im not saying this is what I believe

 

[Breathe]

June 1, 2012
In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins
Highly religious Americans most likely to believe in creationism

Yes, what of it?

First of all, what is defined as "creationist"? It is measured differently.

For example, theistic evolution is classed, by some, as "creationism". Inaccurately.

And while 46% may hold creationist views, how many of them are YECers? Probably only a fraction of those. I would say a majority are Day-Age or Old Earth Creationists.

This is a serious problem with our education system and science.

Indeed there is, and anti-theists are not helping by making the issue God OR science.

The early Sumerian creation account almost matches Genesis exactly, but is a completely different religion.

Yes, well done. This is pretty much what I said.
It's polemic.

"While your god would've done that, ours would've done this."
"HA! Your god would've had to FIGHT to create stuff? How weak is he?"

And poetry.

 

[ruffen]

I might be a YEC. It seems likely that I believe the earth is 5774 years and 6 months old. But its also possible that I believe the earth is 15,340,505,774 years and 6 months. It could be that I believe some other ages as well.

You make it seem equally likely or equally rational to believe that the Earth is 5774 years old as 15,340,50,774 years old. If this is what you're saying, then you are flat out wrong.

Scientists who have found out that our Universe is approximately 13.8 billion years old haven't just come up with that number from a dream or revelation, and they don't expect us to believe them on faith or authority. There is real evidence for the age of the Universe, and it is beyond any doubt that the estimate of a 6,000 year-old Earth is off by a horrible number of magnitudes.


Unless God The Clever One decided to create the Universe in such a way as to discredit the belief that he created it, and to hide his work, and to make everything in the Universe seem like it came about by natural means. Including creating evidence of ice-ages, ancient impacts, craters on the Moon, stars within hydrogen clouds that could have formed them, fossils in layers of Earth, streams of light forming faux images of Galaxies too far away to see in a young Universe, fake correspondence between DNA relationship and fossils and plate tectonics and geology etc. etc. etc.

Such a God would have a nice sense of humor, but you'd still have to be quite dumb to believe in him. And why would God want only the stupid ones to believe in him? Those who shrug at evidence and who believe what they believe regardless of whether the actual world conforms with their belief? If Heaven is going to be filled with such people, I'll take my chances in Hell.

 

[ruffen]

It depends. What makes you think days meant 24 hours?

It doesn't add up still. If a day in Genesis is X years, no matter what number you use for X, it is still wrong. We know that plant life did not arise before the Sun and the Moon. The order is wrong, and a fixed interval between events in creation is completely wrong.

 

[Tumah]

You make it seem equally likely or equally rational to believe that the Earth is 5774 years old as 15,340,50,774 years old. If this is what you're saying, then you are flat out wrong.

Scientists who have found out that our Universe is approximately 13.8 billion years old haven't just come up with that number from a dream or revelation, and they don't expect us to believe them on faith or authority. There is real evidence for the age of the Universe, and it is beyond any doubt that the estimate of a 6,000 year-old Earth is off by a horrible number of magnitudes.


Unless God The Clever One decided to create the Universe in such a way as to discredit the belief that he created it, and to hide his work, and to make everything in the Universe seem like it came about by natural means. Including creating evidence of ice-ages, ancient impacts, craters on the Moon, stars within hydrogen clouds that could have formed them, fossils in layers of Earth, streams of light forming faux images of Galaxies too far away to see in a young Universe, fake correspondence between DNA relationship and fossils and plate tectonics and geology etc. etc. etc.

Such a God would have a nice sense of humor, but you'd still have to be quite dumb to believe in him. And why would God want only the stupid ones to believe in him? Those who shrug at evidence and who believe what they believe regardless of whether the actual world conforms with their belief? If Heaven is going to be filled with such people, I'll take my chances in Hell.

Nope I don't mean to say that its equally rational for youto believe it. I was basing my response on two opinions, one is a 14th and the other a 16th century Rabbi. There may be other opinions which is why I said I might believe other ages as well. Neither age I mentioned was based on science.

 

[Breathe]

Possible Explanation

The Bible is accurate
Knowing men will want to reject the Bible
God creates the universe in such a way that mans science will seem
to prove the earth is much older and that evolution created man

For this reason God sends on then a strong delusion that they should believe a lie that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth Thessalonians 2:11,12

Im not saying this is what I believe

Interesting hypothesis. God would definitely have to have a very odd sense of humour, if that was the case. I don't think it would fit with the Biblical view, though, as "God will never test someone more than they can bear" and all.

 

[freethinker44]

Yes, what of it?

First of all, what is defined as "creationist"? It is measured differently.

For example, theistic evolution is classed, by some, as "creationism". Inaccurately.

And while 46% may hold creationist views, how many of them are YECers? Probably only a fraction of those. I would say a majority are Day-Age or Old Earth Creationists.

The 46% they are talking about are YEC. That is, 46% believe the Earth is less than 10,000 years old.

Forty-six percent of Americans believe in the creationist view that God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years.

Source: In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins

 

[Reverend Rick]

One question, who said any religious book is without error, God or man?

 

[Breathe]

The 46% they are talking about are YEC. That is, 46% believe the Earth is less than 10,000 years old.
Source: In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins

Then there's obviously something really, really wrong with American education on what evolution actually is.

Regardless, the heavy emphasis on "God OR evolution" that is held by many new atheists isn't helping. You can thank them for giving focus and fuel to them.

 

[Tumah]

One question, who said any religious book is without error, God or man?

David under divine inspiration in Psalm 19:8?

 

[Ouroboros]

Then there's obviously something really, really wrong with American education on what evolution actually is.

Yup.

And maybe you missed the USA Today study that showed 25% of Americans believe the Sun is revolving around Earth...

Regardless, the heavy emphasis on "God OR evolution" that is held by many new atheists isn't helping. You can thank them for giving focus and fuel to them.

No. They're not helping. We can't resolve these conflicts unless we can find a way for people to maintain spirituality (religion) and science simultaneous. Until then, we'll have these extremes.

I'm not sure if the new atheists are totally to blame though, the hard-core fundamentalistic literalists who believed in a 6,000 y.o. Earth existed when I grew up 40+ years ago.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm not sure if the new atheists are totally to blame though, the hard-core fundamentalistic literalists who believed in a 6,000 y.o. Earth existed when I grew up 40+ years ago.

The "new atheists" are a safe and convenient focus for so many people's misguided blame and angst.

 

[Reverend Rick]

David under divine inspiration in Psalm 19:8?

I'm no Biblical Scholar, but I read this as our God is true and just. I don't read into this any certain time line as being literal.

That said, what was written was for the people of that time to understand.

If we could come back thousands of years from now and look at how people view our current science books, they would look pretty silly.

Anyone who views anything in absolutes is absolutely wrong.

 

[Breathe]

Yup.

And maybe you missed the USA Today study that showed 25% of Americans believe the Sun is revolving around Earth...

I saw that, but chose to forget it. :cover:

No. They're not helping. We can't resolve these conflicts unless we can find a way for people to maintain spirituality (religion) and science simultaneous. Until then, we'll have these extremes.

Yeah. By divorcing the idea of "either/or" would be a start.

I'm not sure if the new atheists are totally to blame though, the hard-core fundamentalistic literalists who believed in a 6,000 y.o. Earth existed when I grew up 40+ years ago.

Fundamentalism will exist for some time; the issue is who pays attention to them and how much limelight they are given, and how often their views are made out by others as being the standard view of both.

The "new atheists" are a safe and convenient focus for so many people's misguided blame and angst.

Oh please, new atheists are the edgy bedfellows of the very thing they claim to hate. The two live in an abusive codependent relationship.

I know it hurts to think that the non-theists aren't all blameless, but sometimes you've gotta be a big boy and accept that it's not all the big mean theists responsible for all the evil in the big bad world.

 

[Tumah]

I'm no Biblical Scholar, but I read this as our God is true and just. I don't read into this any certain time line as being literal.

Are we reading the same verse?
The Law of G-d is perfect...

That said, what was written was for the people of that time to understand.

Assuming this statement was correct, you are suggesting that the words "the - Law - of - G-d - is - perfect" has a meaning that doesn't imply that the Law of G-d is perfect. Interesting.

If we could come back thousands of years from now and look at how people view our current science books, they would look pretty silly.

Perhaps, but they wouldn't be unintelligible.

Anyone who views anything in absolutes is absolutely wrong.

Which means that my statements remain in their place.

 

[freethinker44]

Then there's obviously something really, really wrong with American education on what evolution actually is.

You can say that again.

Regardless, the heavy emphasis on "God OR evolution" that is held by many new atheists isn't helping. You can thank them for giving focus and fuel to them.

Where? I've talked to and listened to a lot of atheists, anti-theists even, and I have never once heard a single one of them say evolution disproves religion. I've heard some say evolution disproves young earth creationism, but just about every branch of science disproves creationism so I don't know if that counts.

In fact, I'm actually the most anti-theist person I know. I don't really make it that obvious on here because it's pretty extreme sometimes and I don't want to get banned, but just take my word for it, I am not a fan of religion at all. But even I wouldn't say evolution disproves the existence of God, and in fact I would argue against another atheist who says evolution does. Evolution isn't even a factor in whether or not god exists, in my opinion.

The only people I've ever seen argue that either god exists or evolution is true were creationists. They are the only people I've seen say "god or evolution".

 

[Reverend Rick]

The "new atheists" are a safe and convenient focus for so many people's misguided blame and angst.

I don't play the blame game, believers thought this hundreds of years ago and many will still think this 100's of years from now. Right now we have a push shove game going on.
I don't worship science, but then again I am not a YEC either. I see fault in everything.
No perfect science, no perfect religious book. :no:

All I know is, I see us breath oxygen and exhale carbon monoxide, I see trees take in carbon monoxide and give us oxygen. I see a balance of nature and have to believe there was some kind of design here not a big bang from nothing.
No scientist yet has told me what caused the big bang so we all are a bunch of self proclaimed know it alls and we all would be incorrect to one degree or another.
Atheists are not blind followers so why do they think science is 100% correct?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Are we reading the same verse?
The Law of G-d is perfect...



Assuming this statement was correct, you are suggesting that the words "the - Law - of - G-d - is - perfect" has a meaning that doesn't imply that the Law of G-d is perfect. Interesting.



Perhaps, but they wouldn't be unintelligible.





Which means that my statements remain in their place.

You have completely misunderstood what I said. Gods law may be perfect, but the time line is from man not God

 

[Parsimony]

I see us breath oxygen and exhale carbon monoxide, I see trees take in carbon monoxide and give us oxygen.

Forgive me for being a nit-picker Reverend, but we exhale carbon dioxide, not carbon monoxide. Carbon monoxide is one nasty gas.

Atheists are not blind followers so why do they think science is 100% correct?

I doubt any atheists (at least any that I've known) believe that modern scientific knowledge is infallible. Scientific models change over time to match new evidence. Anything in science could be wrong in principle. I'm sure they keep that in mind.