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The egotistical claims of lucifer

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart,
I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will be like the most High.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart,
I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will be like the most High.

This refers to the King of Babylon . . . not Lucifer :facepalm:

But since YOU mentioned this . . . we all know Lucifer is referred to as the Morning Star

Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

So . . . either Jesus is Lucifer, or Jesus is the King of Babylon? Either way, this stupid book is rife with contradiction and delusion.
 
This refers to the King of Babylon . . . not Lucifer :facepalm:

But since YOU mentioned this . . . we all know Lucifer is referred to as the Morning Star

Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

so tho
what about that in verse 4 it is a proverb against the king of babylon
thus as a proverb it could be

6. Doctrinal Value of the Parables:
The interpreters of former generations laid down the rule, theologia parabolica non eat argumentativa, i.e. the parables, very rich in mission thoughts, do not furnish a basis for doctrinal argument. Like all figurative expressions and forms of thought, the parables too contain elements of doubt as far as their interpretation is concerned. They illustrate truth but they do not prove or demonstrate truth. Omnia similia claudicunt, “all comparisons limp,” is applicable here also. No point of doctrine can be established on figurative passages of Scripture, as then all elements of doubt would not be eliminated, this doubt being based on the nature of language itself. The argumentative or doctrinal value of parables is found in this, that they may, in accordance with the analogy of Scripture, illustrate truth already clearly expressed elsewhere. Compare especially Trench, introductory essay, in Notes on the Parables of our Lord, chapter iii., 30-43; and Terry, Biblical Hermeneutics, Part II, chapter vi: “Interpretation of Parables,” 188-213, in which work a full bibliography is given. Compare also the article “Parabel” in Hauck-Herzog, Realencyklopadie fur protestantische Theologie und Kirche.

of a metaphorical nature; hence a simile
similitude or comparison
that the king of babylon to lucifer....
a comparison of two thing which, however different in other respects, have some strong point or points of resemblance

The māshāl, nearly in our sense of proverb, traces back to the heart and life of the common folk; it is a native form reflecting in a peculiarly intimate way the distinctive genius of the Hebrew people. As to the primitive sense of the word, it is usually traced to a root meaning “likeness,” or “comparison,” as if the first sense of it were of the principle of analogy underlying it; but this derivation is a guess. The word is just as likely to be connected with the verb māshāl, “to rule” or “master”; so by a natural secondary meaning to denote that statement which gives the decisive or final verdict, says the master word. The idea of how the thing is said, or by what phrasing, would be a later differentiation, coming in with literary refinement.

THUS THE KING OF BABYLON'S EGO IS LIKE THE EGO OF LUCIFER OR SATAN...


2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

So . . . either Jesus is Lucifer, or Jesus is the King of Babylon? Either way, this stupid book is rife with contradiction and delusion.


AH HERE THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE KING TO THE DEVIL..
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
WHERE THE DRAGON IS THE DEVIL AND GIVES THE A KIND OF SIMILAR POWER
TO THE KING....
BUT THE KING WILL BE DESTROYED IN THE END
IN THINKING THE POWER GIVEN BY THE DEVIL
WILL WORK FOR HIS OWN GLORY AND POWER
JUST AS EVE BELIEVED THE SERPENT'S LIES
AND ADAM DID NOT CORRECT HER....

BUT THE KING AND THE DEVIL
ARE SIMILAR IN THAT THEY BOTH ASPIRE
SIMILARLY
 
This refers to the King of Babylon . . . not Lucifer :facepalm:

But since YOU mentioned this . . . we all know Lucifer is referred to as the Morning Star

Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

so tho
what about that in verse 4 it is a proverb against the king of babylon
thus as a proverb it could be

6. Doctrinal Value of the Parables:
The interpreters of former generations laid down the rule, theologia parabolica non eat argumentativa, i.e. the parables, very rich in mission thoughts, do not furnish a basis for doctrinal argument. Like all figurative expressions and forms of thought, the parables too contain elements of doubt as far as their interpretation is concerned. They illustrate truth but they do not prove or demonstrate truth. Omnia similia claudicunt, “all comparisons limp,” is applicable here also. No point of doctrine can be established on figurative passages of Scripture, as then all elements of doubt would not be eliminated, this doubt being based on the nature of language itself. The argumentative or doctrinal value of parables is found in this, that they may, in accordance with the analogy of Scripture, illustrate truth already clearly expressed elsewhere. Compare especially Trench, introductory essay, in Notes on the Parables of our Lord, chapter iii., 30-43; and Terry, Biblical Hermeneutics, Part II, chapter vi: “Interpretation of Parables,” 188-213, in which work a full bibliography is given. Compare also the article “Parabel” in Hauck-Herzog, Realencyklopadie fur protestantische Theologie und Kirche.

of a metaphorical nature; hence a simile
similitude or comparison
that the king of babylon to lucifer....
a comparison of two thing which, however different in other respects, have some strong point or points of resemblance

The māshāl, nearly in our sense of proverb, traces back to the heart and life of the common folk; it is a native form reflecting in a peculiarly intimate way the distinctive genius of the Hebrew people. As to the primitive sense of the word, it is usually traced to a root meaning “likeness,” or “comparison,” as if the first sense of it were of the principle of analogy underlying it; but this derivation is a guess. The word is just as likely to be connected with the verb māshāl, “to rule” or “master”; so by a natural secondary meaning to denote that statement which gives the decisive or final verdict, says the master word. The idea of how the thing is said, or by what phrasing, would be a later differentiation, coming in with literary refinement.

THUS THE KING OF BABYLON'S EGO IS LIKE THE EGO OF LUCIFER OR SATAN...


2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

So . . . either Jesus is Lucifer, or Jesus is the King of Babylon? Either way, this stupid book is rife with contradiction and delusion.


AH HERE THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE KING TO THE DEVIL..
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
WHERE THE DRAGON IS THE DEVIL AND GIVES THE A KIND OF SIMILAR POWER
TO THE KING....
BUT THE KING WILL BE DESTROYED IN THE END
IN THINKING THE POWER GIVEN BY THE DEVIL
WILL WORK FOR HIS OWN GLORY AND POWER
JUST AS EVE BELIEVED THE SERPENT'S LIES
AND ADAM DID NOT CORRECT HER....

BUT THE KING AND THE DEVIL
ARE SIMILAR IN THAT THEY BOTH ASPIRE
SIMILARLY

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

BUT THE FATE OF THE KING AND THE DEVIL
PROBABLY differ when the king is brought down to hell

..........
 
SOME ANGELS FALL INTO THE PIT
LIKE THE KING TOO
BUT is that which eternally thus
those who fall into the pit for not eternity
as the greek oft translated as eternal is not eternity but eon or eons
which is not the same as eternity..
but what always means eternal in the greek
only occurs twice in the new testament
in chapter 1 of romans
and in jude....
god's eternal unchanging power in romans
and in jude
the everlasting chains
that is to say perhaps
such concepts of self that seek self glory instead of giving
all glory to one's maker....
are what the essence of eternal entrapment of self by self
but then the question is
is the eternal power of god
always able to reverse those who let themselves
fall for their own delusions of self glory
as in romans

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel; for it is the power of God unto life, to all who believe in it; whether first they are of the Jews, or whether they are of the Gentiles.
Rom 1:17 For in it is revealed the righteousness of God, from faith to faith; as it is written, The righteous by faith, shall live.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God from heaven is revealed against all the iniquity and wickedness of men, who hold the truth in iniquity.
Rom 1:19 Because a knowledge of God is manifest in them; for God hath manifested it in them.
Rom 1:20 For, from the foundations of the world, the occult things of God are seen, by the intellect, in the things he created, even his eternal power and divinity; so that they might be without excuse;
Rom 1:21 because they knew God, and did not glorify him and give thanks to him as God, but became vain in their imaginings, and their unwise heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 And, while they thought within themselves that they were wise, they became fools.
Rom 1:23 And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into a likeness to the image of a corruptible man, and into the likeness of birds and quadrupeds and reptiles on the earth.
Rom 1:24 For this cause, God gave them up to the filthy lusts of their heart, to dishonor their bodies with them.
Rom 1:25 And they changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the created things, much more than the Creator of them, to whom belong glory and blessing, for ever and ever: Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause, God gave them up to vile passions: for their females changed the use of their natures, and employed that which is unnatural.
Rom 1:27 And so also their males forsook the use of females, which is natural, and burned with lust toward one another; and, male with male, they did what is shameful, and received in themselves the just recompense of their error.
Rom 1:28 And as they did not determine with themselves to know God, God gave them over to a vain mind; that they might do what they ought not,

BUT DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT THIS BEGAN WITH THE FORMED ADAM
OR EVEN EARLIER WITH AN EARLIER MADE ADAM
OR THE EARLIER CREATED ADAM
GENESIS CHAPTER 1 VERSES
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

PERHAPS SINFULNESS STARTED FOR FALLEN HUMANITY EVEN BEFORE THESE ADAMS..
OR AT LEAST FOR THE ANGELS
BUT THEN WHAT IS the relationship of humans to angels
and sons of god to angels
and to believers in jesus...
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
But since YOU mentioned this . . . we all know Lucifer is referred to as the Morning Star

Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

If you had actually read Isaiah 14 you'd realise that its about the king of babylon. And at that time it was Nebuchadnezzar II. The chapter even adresses the king of babylon.



Also is it just me or are there more Christian Satan/Lucifer/Devil threads around than usual?
 
Jarchi, as the Talmud (c), applies it to Nebuchadnezzar; though, if any particular person is pointed at, Belshazzar is rather designed, the last of the kings of Babylon. The church of Rome, in the times of the apostles, was famous for its light and knowledge; its faith was spoken of throughout all the earth; and its bishops or pastors were bright stars, in the morning of the Gospel dispensation:
FROM GILL BIBLE COMMENTARIES...

NOCH DOCH....
HAB GERADE...
SO DENN SCHON

Sinn und Unsinn

Es saßen Sinn und Unsinn am Tisch
und tranken Brüderschaft frei und frisch.
Doch endlich zog der Wein sie beide nieder;
sie lagen unterm Tisch - als gleiche Brüder.
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
This refers to the King of Babylon . . . not Lucifer :facepalm:

If you had actually read Isaiah 14 you'd realise that its about the king of babylon. And at that time it was Nebuchadnezzar II. The chapter even adresses the king of babylon.
LOL, yeah. That. :D


Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart,
I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will be like the most High.

Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
“Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,

17 the man who made the world a wilderness,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?
”

18 All the kings of the nations lie in state,
each in his own tomb.
19 But you are cast out of your tomb
like a rejected branch;
you are covered with the slain,
with those pierced by the sword,
those who descend to the stones of the pit.
Like a corpse trampled underfoot,
20 you will not join them in burial,
for you have destroyed your land
and killed your people.

Isaiah 14:16-20.

According to this, if it were the Satan being...:

1. He's the king of Babylon
2. He's a man
3. He elevated himself to Godhood
4. He "fell" from the Heavens (i.e., he was de-throned/died)
5. His body will be thrown out of his tomb
6. He will be buried in an anonymous grave (i.e., he will quickly be forgotten).



So that.. still looks like a man... not an opponent of the Biblical God... :D
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
@EtuMalku
Ah sorry i didnt read that you already wrote that the chapter is about the king of babylon. Iam sorry. :/
 
This refers to the King of Babylon . . . not Lucifer :facepalm:

But since YOU mentioned this . . . we all know Lucifer is referred to as the Morning Star

Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

So . . . either Jesus is Lucifer, or Jesus is the King of Babylon? Either way, this stupid book is rife with contradiction and delusion.

FROM GILL BIBLE COMMENTARY
O Lucifer, son of the morning! alluding to the star Venus, which is the phosphorus or morning star, which ushers in the light of the morning, and shows that day is at hand; by which is meant, not Satan, who is never in Scripture called Lucifer, though he was once an angel of light, and sometimes transforms himself into one, and the good angels are called morning stars, Job_38:7 and such he and his angels once were; but the king of Babylon is intended, whose royal glory and majesty, as outshining all the rest of the kings of the earth, is expressed by those names; and which perhaps were such as he took himself, or were given him by his courtiers. The Targum is,

"how art thou fallen from on high, who was shining among the sons of men, as the star Venus among the stars.''
THUS ...TO THE FALLEN SONS OF MAN
THE KING WHOEVER WHICH ONE..
WAS SEEN
AS IF IT WERE IN GLORY AND RADIANCE
BUT thus to those who are of this world would he seem so...perhaps...
WHERE ON THE OTHER HAND JESUS

Luk 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Luk 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luk 12:54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
Luk 12:55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass.
Luk 12:56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
 

Luminous

non-existential luminary
this thread is about the egotism of the mythological lucifer...all i see here is the egotism of humans.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
If YOU had cared to read any of this thread, you would have realized I already clearly stated that . . . :slap:
If you had actually read Isaiah 14 you'd realise that its about the king of babylon. And at that time it was Nebuchadnezzar II. The chapter even adresses the king of babylon.



Also is it just me or are there more Christian Satan/Lucifer/Devil threads around than usual?
 
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