The EU is an Imperial Franco-German Empire?!

[ChristineM]

You are right
But just to clarify I wasn't mentioning indirect economic influence in Africa such as setting up big companies there. I was referring to their political influence
(Remember that France didn't grant them a full 100% independence after the decolonization era which according to me is a really smart move)

As far as i see those African countries were granted full independence. If you can provide evidence to the contrary please feel free to present it

 

[RhySantos]

It's astonishing on how much is spent on the military here.

Even though am not from the US
I still find it's military spending is more than required

 

[RhySantos]

There may be various puppet regimes, spheres of influence, and different levels of hegemony around the world where countries might be nominally "independent" yet still heavily influenced by outside powers. The U.S. has often been accused of imperialism for much the same reason.

So, one might well ask, are there shadow governments with malignant, imperialistic intentions operating behind a facade of "democracy" and "freedom"?

Are our governments claiming to be dedicated to purity, goodness, sweetness, and charity with no thought of their own reward or national interests? It could be. I never really bought into the whole choir boy act that our national leaders have tried to pass off, but on the other hand, I would find it difficult to believe that they're acting on behalf of any specific national interests. Their concerns seem more international and global in their scope, with very little apparent concern for "France" or "Germany" or "America" or "Britain" or whatever the case may be.

It can't be that much of an "empire" if they have to hide it or pass it off as something else. Caesar never had to hide. They operate more like some kind of organized crime cartel struggling to appear "legitimate."

Yes you are right.. I was just calling them an "Empire" just to make it sound more interesting.
It is more of a sphere of influence kind of thing.

 

[Altfish]

I know
I agree that every government has its flaws.
This is just a fun hypothesis regarding the centralization of power held by Germany and France in the EU..
I am not saying that their "wrong" for doing so..
I was also trying to make a joke about how France and Germany are known for their ver ambitious empires..you might already know which empires im talking about

They are the biggest countries, the main contributors (and beneficiaries) of the EU.
London does the same with the UK

 

[RhySantos]

As far as i see those African countries were granted full independence. If you can provide evidence to the contrary please feel free to present it

It is widely understood that, over a half-century ago, most nations of Africa gained formal independence from colonial powers. What is not widely known is that in former French and Portuguese colonies, France was able to retain a significant degree of control over the economics and politics through a neocolonial system dubbed la Françafrique.

The source for the above information is:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ajes.12493#:~:text=It%20is%20widely%20understood%20that%2C%20over%20a%20half-century,politics%20through%20a%20neocolonial%20system%20dubbed%20la%20Fran%C3%A7afrique.

 

[RhySantos]

They are the biggest countries, the main contributors (and beneficiaries) of the EU.
London does the same with the UK

Yes! Italy can also be included too

 

[ChristineM]

It is widely understood that, over a half-century ago, most nations of Africa gained formal independence from colonial powers. What is not widely known is that in former French and Portuguese colonies, France was able to retain a significant degree of control over the economics and politics through a neocolonial system dubbed la Françafrique.

The source for the above information is:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ajes.12493#:~:text=It%20is%20widely%20understood%20that%2C%20over%20a%20half-century,politics%20through%20a%20neocolonial%20system%20dubbed%20la%20Fran%C3%A7afrique.

Interesting.


The end of the cold war and rise of the EU has wakened françafrique and successive french governments have been working to reduce the impact.

 

[RhySantos]

Interesting.


The end of the cold war and rise of the EU has wakened françafrique and successive french governments have been working to reduce the impact

Yup!

 

[Stevicus]

Yes you are right.. I was just calling them an "Empire" just to make it sound more interesting.
It is more of a sphere of influence kind of thing.

I interpret the usage of the word "empire" in such contexts as being more figurative than literal.

 

[Stevicus]

Interesting.


The end of the cold war and rise of the EU has wakened françafrique and successive french governments have been working to reduce the impact.

I was reading an article from last year which discusses the declining influence of France in its former African colonies:

France's waning influence in coup-hit Africa appears clear while few remember their former colonizer

The era of France’s arm-twisting interventionism in Africa may finally be over. France has sat by militarily despite moves by putschists to seize control of former French colonies in recent years.

apnews.com

African and French observers say that France, under pressure, is finally shedding its postcolonial tradition of “Françafrique” — an unflattering term that smacks of paternalistic influence and quiet deal-making among elites — as its economic and political powers wane and an increasingly self-confident Africa looks elsewhere.

After repeated military interventions in its former colonies in recent decades, the era of France as Africa’s “gendarme” may finally be over.

“In the old days of ‘Françafrique,’ this coup would not have happened and, if it did, it would have been quickly reversed,” Peter Pham, a former U.S. envoy for Africa’s Sahel region, said of France’s “muted response” to the coup in Gabon. “Even more than ( the Niger coup in July ), French inaction underscores that the times have changed — Gabon was long the centerpiece of the old cozy postcolonial system.”

 

[Heyo]

1. Introduction
As we all know.. Germany and France are known for their historical imperial empires.
In Germany the First Second and Third Reich, In France the First Second and Third French Empire
Are known for their imperialistic ambitions, especially the Third Reich (Nazi Germany) and the First French Empire (Napoleonic France).
Now their imperialistic ambitions have ended and they are "Peaceful Nations".. But is that really the case?
What if I tell you that the modern world has a Franco-German empire which we haven't been told of.
Let's dive deeper into my hypothesis.

2. Reasons for the hypothesis
The 3 main Reasons for the hypothesis:
(1) Centralization of power
When we talk about the European Union we know that there are 2 major powers in the Union, Germany and France
Why do I say so?
Germany is Europe's economic powerhouse with a GDP of roughly 5 Trillion dollars which is around 5 times more than the Russian GDP which is ≈1 trillion dollars.
France is Europes's military powerhouse
I say this as they are one of the the only EU nations to have nukes and have the greatest military in Europe
Italy can also be included in the list but they aren't a major power in comparison to the other two above.
Since these countries are very powerful, in making decisions the general countries will often agree or disagree because of the decision of Germany and/or France.
(2) German Chancellor: Union States of Europe aka USE.
The German Chancellor proposed an idea
of a "United States of Europe" (USE).
This idea was proposed due the recent "Threat of Russia".
This idea is a suggestion that in case of a full scale war against Russia, all European countries will unite to form the USE to be a formidable opponent against Russia in case of further Russian aggressions.
The reason this may be a threat because
the president of Poland said compared the German Chancellor to Hitler.
This is a threat mostly because Germany/France will most likely be the head of the union this may be a threat to the sovereignty of the other European countries.

(3) Franco African Holdings.
Few people may know about this but France still technically has a colonial empire composing of
African regions and Overseas territories.
In Africa:
1.Mali
2.Niger
3.Chad
4.Central African Republic (CAR)
5.Congo
6.Cameroon
7.Equatorial Guinea
8.Gabon
9.Togo
10.Benin
11.Guinea
12.Ivory Coast
13.Senegal
14.Burkina Faso
Are still in French governance.

Unlike the British the French Government didn't grant their colonies full independence.. They still technically govern these nations.
They still exploit these nations for it's natural resources.

They also own other French Overseas Territories such as:
1.French Guyana
2.Corsica
Etc

This shows the French influence around the world and therefore it will obviously play a major role in the EU along with Germany and therefore centralise power.

3. Conclusion
To conclude:
This is just a mere hypothesis questioning the centralization of power held by Germany and France in the EU.
Again this is a hypothesis not direct fact and is very theoretical therefore one must deeply research into such topics.
What is your take on this,
Do you agree or disagree.. Please
mention your opinions by replying to this thread.
Also y'all can mention anything else you want me to cover up!

Have a great day ahead..
Byee

*End Of The Thread*

First, welcome to RF.

Second, no.
The EU may become something of an Empire in the future, but that future is farther away today than it was a decade ago. We have nationalistic tendencies in many countries of the EU. One important member left. It doesn't look as if any government in the EU countries will give up their power to a centralized EU government.

There is only one way a union may be forced upon us by outside forces. When Russia and the US work together, i.e. Russia threatening EU members and the US threatening to dissolve NATO. The latter being dependent on how the election goes in November.
And forced unions tend to be not that stable when the force disappears.

We'll have to sit out the current trends of nationalism, reform EU government into a democratic administration, and let Europe grow together.

 

[RhySantos]

First, welcome to RF.

Second, no.
The EU may become something of an Empire in the future, but that future is farther away today than it was a decade ago. We have nationalistic tendencies in many countries of the EU. One important member left. It doesn't look as if any government in the EU countries will give up their power to a centralized EU government.

There is only one way a union may be forced upon us by outside forces. When Russia and the US work together, i.e. Russia threatening EU members and the US threatening to dissolve NATO. The latter being dependent on how the election goes in November.
And forced unions tend to be not that stable when the force disappears.

We'll have to sit out the current trends of nationalism, reform EU government into a democratic administration, and let Europe grow together.

That is a really good point which I overlooked.. Thanks for sharing it

 

[PhantomRedd]

Hello I am new here

 

[RhySantos]

Hello I am new here

Welcome my boi

 

[PhantomRedd]

Welcome my boi

No

 

[ChristineM]

Hello I am new here

Welcome to RF, enjoy.

 

[PhantomRedd]

Welcome to RF, enjoy.

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T.janks alot