The Evils of the Religious Mob

[justa_gurl]

Am I living in dreamland, or is it not that the US seems to have far greater problems than we do about Christianity being rammed down every one's throat, with groups trying desperately to keep religion out of politics ? (where it ought not to be in the first place?)

Amen. lol

The attitude often associated with Christians and their influences in government suggests that by nature of being Christian, one can not think for themselves or comprehend the facts in order to choose their position accordingly. It's this i'm opposed to, the 'us vs. them' approach not the Christians utilization of free speech and their right to dissagree. Christians are fully capable of seeing through a political ruse and false agenda and make decisions for themselves. Whether they do or not is a symptom of mental laziness or flat out deception by those with an upper hand, which is a quality that is by no means local to Christianity.

If you want an ideal to blame, blame the American dream; each person out to have for themselves whatever they desire, independence over community, economic growth and work ethic over quality of life, cultural assimilation rather than respect in identity, protect your own interests at all costs.. Perhaps it's not so much a religious problem as an outdated and now distorted national ideal.

 

[iaminterface]

outdated and now distorted national ideal.

I try to tell people this, and i usually end up with the usual "well you'll never make it in life" speach.

 

[Tawn]

You misunderstood my post. Also, I do not believe I have a right to force my beliefs on others. You assume too much.

All I was saying was, that religion has so much power, that it can't stop any of these things. I made no qualitative statements about them.

Im sorry Mr Emu.. I realise what you were hinting at now.. I think the abortion threads wound me up a little...

Christianity is losing power, thats what those situations demonstrate.. but it doesnt really suggest Christianity is weak... if that were true Bush would have never got in for a second term... Gays would be able to marry.. Atheists wouldnt feel the need to hide their beliefs.. members of congress wouldnt be forced to pretend theyre religious in order to get in... the list goes on.. though im sure it would be better to ask an American Atheist rather than an English one like me..

 

[Ormiston]

Why should I fear someones religion? I mean, it's just a personal thing to each individual, isn't it? I fear it because it does affect me. How? Take for example the judge with the 10 Commandments in his courtroom. What he is showing me is that he bases his decisions in court on principles delivered to a man 5000 years ago by a God. BY A GOD! Not the writings of an ancient philosopher, BY A GOD! The judge will proudly admit that he has no doubt in these principles. Now I'm pretty sure the story of Moses is just a story, but to this man it is truth. What if the 10 Commandments are flawed? I'm sure a man of a judges stature would be smart enough to discern right from wrong. But discern he will not because he has faith in 5000 year old tablets. Now we have someone who worships a God and asks this God for advice on how to judge people judging me. Well, what if I read different old books and talk to different Gods with different principles. Can I be a judge!? Keep your religion at home where it belongs.

 

[Mister Emu]

Im sorry Mr Emu.. I realise what you were hinting at now.. I think the abortion threads wound me up a little...

Heh, abortion threads get everyone a little wound up. Which is why I try to refrain from involving myself in them.

Atheists wouldnt feel the need to hide their beliefs..

I am sorry for this situation, it is rediculous.

members of congress wouldnt be forced to pretend theyre religious in order to get in...

And I already thought poloticians were wrong...

 

[BUDDY]

The faith of an individual in God and religious principles is, in itself, harmless and even respectable (although suspect and, at times, comical). The true problem lies in the hatred and prejudices of the "Church". The "mob" mentality that arrises when any group of people take an emotionally fueled agenda is extremely dangerous, especially when the agenda is the damnation of ones enemies. For example, the Christians revel in the fact that non-believers shall suffer eternally for their sins and masquerade this rush with their pity and selflessness. Despicable. I know this is simply a forum for discussion, and yet, I am truly afraid of the power they wield in our governments and in social groups. Speak out against Jesus or God and you will be the only martyr.

All the Churchophobics in the house say, HOOOOOO!!!!
HO!! HO!!
HO!! HO!! HO!!

Oh, crap, that's a reference to Christmas. Forget I said that.

Anyway, it seems rather funny to me when anyone who is not a Christian freaks out about Christians letting their religion influence their decisions. As if everyone else in the world can seperate their moral standards from their decisions whether they be in politics or not. Do you really think that an atheist politician doesn't let their atheism have any effect on their views of the world, politics, right and wrong or anything else. It seems to me that everyone is upset at Christianity because Christianty makes up the majority in the U.S., which makes them by definition much louder than everyone else. I can't say I am sorry for that, but if we make you nervous, then maybe you should try and take more time letting us explain ourselves and our views and vice versa. Maybe that would help calm your fear.

 

[DeepShadow]

Yeah, I failed a job interview once because someone asked me if I would "check my religious principles at the door" and I didn't even know what she meant. I mean, how do I do that? How do I separate my religious principles from the rest of me? I found out later she was talking about proselytizing at work, which I wouldn't even think of doing. Don't tell me prejudice doesn't go both ways.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Historically speaking, much of our judicial system finds it's roots in this code and those of Hammurabi. How much of our history are you willing to destroy due to your intolerance?

 

[Tawn]

As if everyone else in the world can seperate their moral standards from their decisions whether they be in politics or not. Do you really think that an atheist politician doesn't let their atheism have any effect on their views of the world, politics, right and wrong or anything else.

You are quite right that it is impossible to separate a Christian's personal ethics from the ethics of his faith - it is probably because they closely align that they follow that faith (or the other way round). However, Atheism - as a non-belief system - cannot influence a persons morals. Atheism does not have an ethical or moral system.. to Atheists these things are entirely personal choices.

 

[Melody]

Christianity was formed on the premise of a simple man, who by touching lepers and eating with gentiles went against the church authority and their false perceptions. He proved that the best of mankind and the highest of laws -love and grace- are bound to instigate opposition, will often persecute and even perceivably destroy you, but are in fact indestructible in simplicity and truth. It's a message which promotes the exact opposite of an aggressive stance. In no way shape or form does religion promote violence, aggression, or judgment in principle. The true problem lies in the hatred and prejudices of the individual. From there it spreads outward and often infects 'god', who ends up becoming the patsy and unfortunate casualty, serving to provide them with sense of false authority and thus legitimizing their actions and uniting them in principle and purpose for a cause they themselves invented.

The problem, in my opion, is therefore not religion itself or anyone learning from god, but those speaking for him. Even, i might add, when those who would speak for god don't even acknowledge they have one.

Wow...beautiful response! Frubals!

 

[Melody]

You are quite right that it is impossible to separate a Christian's personal ethics from the ethics of his faith - it is probably because they closely align that they follow that faith (or the other way round). However, Atheism - as a non-belief system - cannot influence a persons morals. Atheism does not have an ethical or moral system.. to Atheists these things are entirely personal choices.

I love it when people say atheism is a non-belief system. Atheism is a belief otherwise you would just say you have no belief and not define it with the word "atheism".

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Atheism is a belief otherwise you would just say you have no belief and not define it with the word "atheism".

Don't be absurd. Who made the rule that culture could not or should not establish a term to represent the state/stance of having no belief? You?

 

[michel]

Don't be absurd. Who made the rule that culture could not or should not establish a term to represent the state/stance of having no belief? You?

That's a good point, Deut, I see what Melody is trying to say, and initially I agreed with your answer.

An atheist is one one who believes that there is no deity (According to the modern dictionary) whislst the etymological one does not use the word belief in it's description.

Just as a question- If I ask you ;"what do you believe in, in the realms of theology ?" - what would be your answer ?

 

[Tawn]

I love it when people say atheism is a non-belief system. Atheism is a belief otherwise you would just say you have no belief and not define it with the word "atheism".

Thats nonsense. Many Atheists actually belong to religious belief systems.
Atheism is a term to represent a lack of belief in god(s). Having 'no-belief' is not a satisfactory term in itself because Atheists can have belifs - and importantly different beliefs - on many issues.

If you think Atheism is a belief system perhaps you could tell us what you think Atheists believe.. and then we can tell you why you are wrong.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Just as a question- If I ask you ;"what do you believe in, in the realms of theology ?" - what would be your answer ?

I believe it unevidenced, epistemologicaly inaccessible, and ontologically unnecessary.

 

[michel]

I believe it unevidenced, epistemologicaly inaccessible, and ontologically unnecessary.

You used the word 'believe' - is yours therefore not a belief ?

 

[Tawn]

You used the word 'believe' - is yours therefore not a belief ?

The term Atheism just means 'lack-of-belief-in-god'. If an Atheist holds counter beliefs which make them not believe in god it means that that person has beliefs but still has no god beliefs.
Not having belief in something isnt a belief in itself - but it can be justified through other beliefs..

Its important to make this distinction because many Atheists are simply Atheists because they are unconvinced of the theological argument - not because they actively disbelieve in God.

For example if I was to say I have 25 sisters, you might doubt me because it is a preposterous claim. You dont actively believe I dont have 25 sisters, its just that until I convince you i do in fact have 25 sisters you are going to remain simply, without full belief in what I say.
If this sounds to you like agnosticism, thats because it is. Atheist agnosticism.

Of course if we are discussing strong Atheism, then we are on a different track. Strong Atheists believe there isnt a god.

Just try to make the distinction between:
a) believing there isnt a god.
b) not believing there is a god.

 

[BUDDY]

The term Atheism just means 'lack-of-belief-in-god'. If an Atheist holds counter beliefs which make them not believe in god it means that that person has beliefs but still has no god beliefs.
Not having belief in something isnt a belief in itself - but it can be justified through other beliefs..

Its important to make this distinction because many Atheists are simply Atheists because they are unconvinced of the theological argument - not because they actively disbelieve in God.

For example if I was to say I have 25 sisters, you might doubt me because it is a preposterous claim. You dont actively believe I dont have 25 sisters, its just that until I convince you i do in fact have 25 sisters you are going to remain simply, without full belief in what I say.
If this sounds to you like agnosticism, thats because it is. Atheist agnosticism.

Of course if we are discussing strong Atheism, then we are on a different track. Strong Atheists believe there isnt a god.

Just try to make the distinction between:
a) believing there isnt a god.
b) not believing there is a god.

I think that you are speaking semantics. Even atheists have moral fiber that they live by (at least I think and hope so). They aren't based on your atheism, but because of your atheism you base them on something different than a Christian would. These are the beliefs or the system of beliefs that I was speaking of in an earlier post. You believe in something. I can tell by reading your posts that you believe in kindness, tact and you seem to conduct yourself in the attitude of the golden rule. You don't base your principles and beliefs on the same thing that I do, but you have learned to base them upon something and you conduct yourself in a way that reflects these beliefs.

 

[Melody]

If you think Atheism is a belief system perhaps you could tell us what you think Atheists believe.. and then we can tell you why you are wrong.

I have no clue what your beliefs as an atheist are anymore than I know what a christians beliefs as a Christian are. Everyone has their own set of beliefs. If you have no beliefs, you're probably dead.

 

[Hope]

I have no clue what your beliefs as an atheist are anymore than I know what a christians beliefs as a Christian are. Everyone has their own set of beliefs. If you have no beliefs, you're probably dead.

Preach it, sister.