The Exclusivity of Christianity: Myth or Reality

[Unveiled Artist]

Alot of times the prepositions and sentence structures vary from bible to bible, because the interpreters don't always know exactly what it's saying. So putting things in the context of the conversation is at least as reliable.

I mean, we can blame it on the interpretations but the concept is the same regardless. You have the creator, who has a message, he begots a messenger that he is pleased of, that messenger represents his father, and through the messenger, you are receiving words from his father.

I think maybe the father did it this way because it's hard to relate to a spirit since the creator doesn't want anyone to see him. So, it's easier to relate to someone who represents his message and that is why his message was made flesh. It's almost like "okay, well, I told them what to do. They don't seem to listen to me, so let me use my message instead. They would probably get that from someone who mirrors them in flesh then a spirit they can't see and be killed if they seen them."

If the interpretations are off, why use the bible?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Because Jesus has told you that he and the Father are the same you can know they are both smiley faces. How else would you know?

That there are two smile faces that share the same attributes/nature.

 

[Kemosloby]

That there are two smile faces that share the same attributes/nature.

Right and nobody has ever seen the Father but the Son, So the only way you can know the Father is by knowing the Son. You can do this because they share the same attributes/nature.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Because Jesus has told you that he and the Father are the same you can know they are both smiley faces. How else would you know?

I'm not saying you don't know jesus because I am telling you they are separate people. I'm just saying, when you go to jesus, you are going through him to get to the father. If you are going to jesus as if he is the father, you are doing the same thing the young ruler in Luke 18:19 is doing:

18 Then a certain ruler asked Him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 19“Why do you call Me good? Jesus replied.“No one is good except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not bear false witness, honor your father and mother.’”…

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Right and nobody has ever seen the Father but the Son, So the only way you can know the Father is by knowing the Son. You can do this because they share the same attributes/nature.

The word share means two different things share the same nature. Jesus and the creator are two separate people who have the same divinity. One is the father and the other is the son. Sharing divinity does not mean one is the other. Sharing my mother's blood doesn't make me my mother.

You can't share among yourself.

The very fact that jesus is human differentiates him from his father.

 

[Kemosloby]

I'm not saying you don't know jesus because I am telling you they are separate people. I'm just saying, when you go to jesus, you are going through him to get to the father. If you are going to jesus as if he is the father, you are doing the same thing the young ruler in Luke 18:19 is doing:

18 Then a certain ruler asked Him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 19“Why do you call Me good? Jesus replied.“No one is good except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not bear false witness, honor your father and mother.’”…

But Jesus didn't deny that he was good. He simply asked the man why he called him good. “Why do you call Me good? Jesus replied.“No one is good except God alone Which implies that he is like the Father, God. There is God the Son and God the Father. both God and God alone is good.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But Jesus didn't deny that he was good. He simply asked the man why he called him good. “Why do you call Me good? Jesus replied.“No one is good except God alone Which implies that he is like the Father, God. There is God the Son and God the Father. both God and God alone is good.

He is like his father. In your context, god means divinity. They share divinity but the fact jesus is human, they are not the same people. Jesus isn't the father.

A lot of people say "jesus is not the father but he is god" then I think, if the father is not god, who is god separate from the father, son, and holy spirit?

EDIT

My question, though, is. How can you share among yourselves?

 

[Kemosloby]

He's not God the Father but does say he is God, and the Jews sure thought he was calling himself God. God the Son.

The Unbelief of the Jews John 10:31At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him. But Jesus answered, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?” 33“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”

And Jesus seems to go on to say that you know God the Father by Jesus's works, because Jesus did the will of the Father and showed them many good works.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

He's not God the Father but does say he is God, and the Jews sure thought he was calling himself God. God the Son.

Many Christians, when they refer to god, they are referring to the father. If god is not the father, and he is referred to as a person, who is god?

Where does jesus say "I am god". If god means creator, where does jesus refer to himself other than the savior and the son of his father?

The jews were upset because jesus was putting himself in the same position as god (the creator) which is a huge no-no in the OT.

The Unbelief of the Jews John 10:31At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him. But Jesus answered, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?” 33“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”

"I have shown you works from my father." The jews thought (as many christians do as well) that jesus, because he "raise the sick and all of that" he claims himself to be god (the creator in jewish eyes). That is not so. Like the verses I pointed out, jesus says that everything he does comes from the father and the father alone. He doesn't mention god separate from the father. The father or god is referred to as the creator; and, to whom put himself, in jewish view, level with the creator is committing blasphemy.

That is what I see trinitarians do but in this case, they are not just saying he is in the same position as god, which which is NT biblical, but they are also saying he is god/father which is not biblical.

The jews thought just as christians think that jesus declared himself to be god but where does it say that? Both of you are wrong. It's not in the NT that he is god/creator. When jesus did "good works" from his father they assumed, because jesus said "it was from his father" he was acting in role of his father (which means being his father's representative).

It is a false claim but jesus said “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”

Unless you agree with the jews that jesus claim to be god, jesus is telling them, "hey, why are you stoning me because I did good works from the father." (and I can hear him now, "did I say was god just because I did good works because of him? Quote me here). But they stoned him instead.

Sad event.

And Jesus seems to go on to say that you know God the Father by Jesus's works, because Jesus did the will of the Father and showed them many good works.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Unbelief of the Jews John 10:31At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him. But Jesus answered, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?” 33“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”

The religiousness is probably making you miss my point. Let me taking out the religion so you can get the context.

The Unbelief of the Jews John 10:31At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone her. But Jane answered, “I have shown you many good works from my Mother. For which of these do you stone Me?” 33“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a woman, declare Yourself to be your mother.”

We are not stoning you, jesus, because you did good works. We're stoning you because you claim to be the creator.

In the NT he did not claim to be the creator/god/father. He claimed to be the son of god, the representative (mirror image, as, like, as one) of the father and he claimed that whatever he does is what his father does.

The jews get anzy because of jesus' claim but why would a christian believe the same thing the jews believed, that jesus claimed to be god?

Why not see what jesus actually says and the relationship he says between him and his father?

 

[Kemosloby]

Many Christians, when they refer to god, they are referring to the father. If god is not the father, and he is referred to as a person, who is god?

Where does jesus say "I am god". If god means creator, where does jesus refer to himself other than the savior and the son of his father?

The jews were upset because jesus was putting himself in the same position as god (the creator) which is a huge no-no in the OT.



"I have shown you works from my father." The jews thought (as many christians do as well) that jesus, because he "raise the sick and all of that" he claims himself to be god (the creator in jewish eyes). That is not so. Like the verses I pointed out, jesus says that everything he does comes from the father and the father alone. He doesn't mention god separate from the father. The father or god is referred to as the creator; and, to whom put himself, in jewish view, level with the creator is committing blasphemy.

That is what I see trinitarians do but in this case, they are not just saying he is in the same position as god, which which is NT biblical, but they are also saying he is god/father which is not biblical.

The jews thought just as christians think that jesus declared himself to be god but where does it say that? Both of you are wrong. It's not in the NT that he is god/creator. When jesus did "good works" from his father they assumed, because jesus said "it was from his father" he was acting in role of his father (which means being his father's representative).

It is a false claim but jesus said “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”

Unless you agree with the jews that jesus claim to be god, jesus is telling them, "hey, why are you stoning me because I did good works from the father." (and I can hear him now, "did I say was god just because I did good works because of him? Quote me here). But they stoned him instead.

Sad event.

He didn't say he was God the Father, but he repeatedly implies he was God, even that we are little gods. So if we are little gods, how much more is it accurate to call Jesus God, being as he is the Son of God and the Word made flesh, even who the old testament reffered to as "Mighty God"

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came — and the Scripture cannot be broken — then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world? How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?

 

[David T]

The story could be about nature and much more animistic than we fully realize. But if it is, it's not anything like what we understand about nature to be in either science or religion.

 

[loverofhumanity]

My understanding is that some verses have multiple purposes.

In John 14:6 Christ was making it clear that only He was the true Messiah and all other claimants at that time were false.

But it was also set as a test for the future when Christ would return with a new name.

Rev 3:11-13

I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown. 12 The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name. 13 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

Will John 14:6 be too much of a test for Christians to accept the return of their Lord with a new name?

If Christians worshipped the God Spirit within Christ and not His personality then they will see Him on His return. But if they are looking for an identical name they will be sorry because He said He wouldn't come with the name Jesus Christ but with a new name. This is Christianity's test. Can they 'conquer' this test and receive His new name??

 

[oldbadger]

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

What's the best way of looking at this passage?

Hi.....
Ah yes.... John.
The Jesus that Mark, even Matthew and Luke wrote about, is just not like the Jesus that John wrote about, 80-90 years after Jesus was arrested, etc.

By the time that John wrote his gospel, Jesus could bring back the dead, his mission lasted about three times longer, his actions were scattered willy-nilly down the timeline, he didn't caste out demons (not good enough for John's Jesus) and he was no longer a Son of Man but THE Son of God.

I picked another gospel at random, and chose these two sentences to show what the others thought that Jesus really said. Quite different from John....
Matthew {9:13} But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew {15:24} But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Ah John........ the things that you wrote......

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I separated the posts for my understanding and numbering them for easy reading.

He didn't say he was God the Father, but he repeatedly implies he was God, even that we are little gods.

1. Many christians say god is god the father. If god is not god the father, who is god?

2. Jesus implies that he has the divinity of god because they share the same nature. He never says he is god/the father (if that is what god means. If it does not, what or who is god?)

3. How are we (referring to christians?) little gods? If god is another word for divine/truth/etc then how can christians be divine/truth/etc and still need jesus christ?

4. The implication is that jesus shares divinity with god (if god is the father). The fact (from a christian view) is Jesus is not the father regardless if they share the same divinity.

5. The bible says god is the creator and the creator is the father. Jesus is not the creator and not the father, hence, he is not god.

6. If he is, who is god apart from the creator?

So if we are little gods, how much more is it accurate to call Jesus God, being as he is the Son of God and the Word made flesh, even who the old testament reffered to as "Mighty God"

7. Christians aren't "little gods" (if you are saying you are all divine/truth/one with christ and father) but children of god just as christ. Christ is the word because he is the representative of his father.

8. Think of an interpreter. An interpreter, say ASL since that's what I'm going into, has a Deaf client. Whatever that interpreter says cannot be changed at all. If that Deaf client wants to talk about sex, I have to talk about sex. I am not the client. I act in the role of the client and as a medium between two people who do not share the same language and culture.

It is the exact same thing with jesus christ. That is why he is One with his father because whatever he says is from his father. Whatever I say to a hearing person is from my Deaf client not from me.
​

9. Because if we were little gods (which children of god makes more sense and scriptural) then you would be saying we have the same divinity of christ just as he has the same divinity as his father. So you are adding christians to the son, father, and holy spirit. Jesus never taught that.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came — and the Scripture cannot be broken — then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world?

Is jesus implying that christians have the same spirit as his father?

In other words, is jesus implying that christians are god/divine/truth? (little gods sounds polytheistic)

How then can you accuse Me of blasphemy for stating that I am the Son of God?

How can you accuse me of blasphemy just because I'm stating I am the Son of god?

In other words, "I'm just saying 'Im the son of god' why are you accusing me of a simple statement like this" I never said I was god, so why are you accusing me of an statement I never made?

 

[Neo Deist]

What makes more sense, that GOD HIMSELF physically wrestles with humans, or that he sends an angel like he did when he destroyed Sodom?

It makes about as much sense as talking snakes, a garden that no one has ever found, an angel with a flaming sword that no satellite has seen, parting a sea down the middle, etc.

 

[Kemosloby]

I separated the posts for my understanding and numbering them for easy reading.


1. Many christians say god is god the father. If god is not god the father, who is god?

2. Jesus implies that he has the divinity of god because they share the same nature. He never says he is god/the father (if that is what god means. If it does not, what or who is god?)

3. How are we (referring to christians?) little gods? If god is another word for divine/truth/etc then how can christians be divine/truth/etc and still need jesus christ?

4. The implication is that jesus shares divinity with god (if god is the father). The fact (from a christian view) is Jesus is not the father regardless if they share the same divinity.

5. The bible says god is the creator and the creator is the father. Jesus is not the creator and not the father, hence, he is not god.

6. If he is, who is god apart from the creator?



7. Christians aren't "little gods" (if you are saying you are all divine/truth/one with christ and father) but children of god just as christ. Christ is the word because he is the representative of his father.

8. Think of an interpreter. An interpreter, say ASL since that's what I'm going into, has a Deaf client. Whatever that interpreter says cannot be changed at all. If that Deaf client wants to talk about sex, I have to talk about sex. I am not the client. I act in the role of the client and as a medium between two people who do not share the same language and culture.

It is the exact same thing with jesus christ. That is why he is One with his father because whatever he says is from his father. Whatever I say to a hearing person is from my Deaf client not from me.
​

9. Because if we were little gods (which children of god makes more sense and scriptural) then you would be saying we have the same divinity of christ just as he has the same divinity as his father. So you are adding christians to the son, father, and holy spirit. Jesus never taught that.



Is jesus implying that christians have the same spirit as his father?

In other words, is jesus implying that christians are god/divine/truth? (little gods sounds polytheistic)



How can you accuse me of blasphemy just because I'm stating I am the Son of god?

In other words, "I'm just saying 'Im the son of god' why are you accusing me of a simple statement like this" I never said I was god, so why are you accusing me of an statement I never made?

The scripture that says "you are little gods" is the old testament. So that would have been directed towards the jews at the time, but I believe it means people in general, made in Gods image are little gods, small g. Jesus was greater, sanctified, the Son of God, the Word made Flesh, Mighty God, big G.

It's odd that he changes mid passage from explaining how he is God, then switches to saying Son of God. In context I believe it should actually end with him stating he is God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The scripture that says "you are little gods" is the old testament. So that would have been directed towards the jews at the time, but I believe it means people in general, made in Gods image are little gods, small g. Jesus was greater, sanctified, the Son of God, the Word made Flesh, Mighty God, big G.

It's odd that he changes mid passage from explaining how he is God, then switches to saying Son of God. In context I believe it should actually end with him stating he is God.

I can't really speak intelligently about "we are little gods" just make an educated guess that if god means divine in some way and you are comparing christians to god in divinity, then that is a huge problem when it comes to judaism-if, you are going by jewish views. But you can't interpret jewish views from the NT, you have to do it from the old. Also, in my opinion, I feel its best to ask someone who is a practicing jew native to his culture and religion.

As for jesus being god, the interpreter example is the best I can come to.

 

[Kemosloby]

I can't really speak intelligently about "we are little gods" just make an educated guess that if god means divine in some way and you are comparing christians to god in divinity, then that is a huge problem when it comes to judaism-if, you are going by jewish views. But you can't interpret jewish views from the NT, you have to do it from the old. Also, in my opinion, I feel its best to ask someone who is a practicing jew native to his culture and religion.

As for jesus being god, the interpreter example is the best I can come to.

It's the Jewish text that says you are little gods, it's in the old testament, tenach i guess it what they call it, or torah.

Psalm 82:6 God Presides in the Great Assembly
…They do not know nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are shaken. I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. "Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes."…

John 10:34 John 10:34
Jesus replied, "Is it not written in your Law: 'I have said you are gods' ?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's the Jewish text that says you are little gods, it's in the old testament, tenach i guess it what they call it, or torah.

Psalm 82:6 God Presides in the Great Assembly
…They do not know nor do they understand; They walk about in darkness; All the foundations of the earth are shaken. I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. "Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes."…

John 10:34 John 10:34
Jesus replied, "Is it not written in your Law: 'I have said you are gods' ?

I can't understand that from a jewish perspective. I'd have to ask someone native to that language and culture rather than my interpretation which is influenced by christian understanding of the bible.

I'm more geared toward my comment about the interpreter. Do you understand where I'm coming from?