roger1440
I do stuff
I wrote this 2 years ago. I have more on the topic too.
Personal Religious Experiences - Delusion or Revelation?
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The Exclusivity of Christianity: Myth or Reality
- Thread starter Dawnofhope
- Start date
Personal Religious Experiences - Delusion or Revelation?
roger1440
I do stuff
Read this thread too. It's from about 5 years ago.
Do you think a mystical experience has any value?
"It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth"
What else is there to say?
roger1440
I do stuff
If I'm correct correct that Paul had a mystical experience I don't think he was mature enough to know what was going on.
Perhaps not. But His Lord Jesus abrogated Mosaic law, and it was Paul who sealed the deal. There's your New Covenant. Its only light as far as I can see.
Why do you think he was not mature enough to know what was going on?
roger1440
I do stuff
Yeah, and Elvis is going to make a come back. He told me that himself. Trust me on this.
roger1440
I do stuff
Well, for starters, dead people don't speak from the grave.
I'm not entirely sure where you are going with this but go on
roger1440
I do stuff
Jesus couldn't have spoken to Paul. Jesus was dead, remember?
Evidently there was some controversy as to whether Jesus actually died? Check out all those sightings. Thomas, James...Paul wasn't the only one.
Or an alternative explanation:
"For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy"
Acts 2:15-18
This was the type of mystical experience Paul had, although sometime after the day of Pentacost.
Paul framed his experience and that of other apostles in a manner that would be comprehensible to the gentiles he taught. That would go someway to accounting for the resurrection narrative.
I don't believe Paul was immature at all, and would be surprised if you did either.
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buddhist
Well-Known Member
Nothing specific; the last time I re-read all of Jesus' words in the Bible (the "red-letter" words), I couldn't find myself in agreement with any of them.
Shem Ben Noah
INACTIVE
If you want to believe that he spoke greek....
I am the way, the truth and teh life, NO ONE comes to the Father except through Me--Jn 14:6
And there is salvation in on one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.---Acts 4:12.
Where does you Bible say something different?
Would you post the one that you were in lest agreement with? Maybe your disagreement comes from a lack of understanding.
What makes you think those who translate the NT are not experts in Greek and also in Aramaic?
There's a simple way to look at it:
There's only one creator, ruler, and lord over the universe. That is Jesus, as the visible image of the Father.
You have to submit to the Lordship of Jesus to abide with Him.
Given that there is only one Lord over all: If you choose not to accept the Lordship of Jesus and abide with Him, then where else do you have to go?
The only alternative is you end up separated from God, the source of life, and all the consequences entailed in that.
So, even if you were to argue about the hows and whys of salvation, ultimately you still come down a simple conclusion that cannot be escaped: Rebels against God (ie. sinners) won't be in the presence of God, and there's only one God, so if you reject Him then you're out of options. There is no plan B for people who choose to reject Jesus, considering He is the creator, source of eternal life, and Lord of all. Salvation is essentially restoring relationship with God, and with that comes eternal life, but if people reject relationship with God then they cannot be saved because it is that relationship with God itself that brings salvation from the original separation which doomed them to death. It is only through Jesus that that relationship can be bridged again.
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roger1440
I do stuff
It comes to no surprise to me Paul going around ranting and raving that some dead guy speaks to him saying the Mosaic Law is obsolete and the Jews want to run him out of town. I can almost guarantee if I stood on a busy street corner and tapped people on the shoulder and told them some dead guy speaks to me and told me we need to change our ways, I would be put in the nut house in a heartbeat.
buddhist
Well-Known Member
How about this verse? ""But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Mt 4:4.
Seems like many words of the Bible's god causes people to die instead.