the existence of god is a scientific fact

[loverofhumanity]

The title of the thread is 'the existence of God is a SCIENTIFIC fact.' Metaphysics, philosophy, religious belief are not the domain of science.

The science of the love of God is just as valid a science as any other when you consider it has transformed and changed entire civilisations and transformed the lives of billions of people just as any other material science has. Only material science alone has not advanced civilisation without the love of God which I insist are sciences too that people study and practice daily and are equally valid.

 

[loverofhumanity]

No, it is a logical fallacy at best. It is not "logic".

Just making such an insistent statement with strong conviction means nothing at all.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The science of the love of God is just as valid a science as any other when you consider it has transformed and changed entire civilisations and transformed the lives of billions of people just as any other material science has. Only material science alone has not advanced civilisation without the love of God which I insist are sciences too that people study and practice daily and are equally valid.

Sorry, but if you can't come up with a testable hypothesis then by definition it is not science.

What reasonable test could show your beliefs to be wrong?

If you cannot think of a way to reasonably test your beliefs then they are not scientific.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Just making such an insistent statement with strong conviction means nothing at all.

But it is a statement that I can support. I see that you seem to be having trouble supporting yours.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That is hardly a hypothesis. It is merely hand waving. But tell us, what reasonable test could show you to be wrong?

To begin with, These Beings are unique in human history. Why does the Bible or Quran or the Dhammapada attract millions to change their lives but not Tolstoy or Dickens?

Can this power and influence be duplicated in a lab environment? If we can duplicate a Jesus or a Buddha including a Holy Book with the exact same results then we could say that These Beings are just ordinary human beings Who’s power and influence we can easily replicate.

But if we cannot do so then it is only fair to consider that perhaps an outward force outside human capabilities was responsible for both the power and influence of Their Lives and Writings.

 

[Subduction Zone]

To begin with, These Beings are unique in human history. Why does the Bible or Quran or the Dhammapada attract millions to change their lives but not Tolstoy or Dickens?

Can this power and influence be duplicated in a lab environment? If we can duplicate a Jesus or a Buddha including a Holy Book with the exact same results then we could say that These Beings are just ordinary human beings Who’s power and influence we can easily replicate.

But if we cannot do so then it is only fair to consider that perhaps an outward force outside human capabilities was responsible for both the power and influence of Their Lives and Writings.

Please, no nonsense and hand waving.

How would you test your beliefs? If you cannot think of a reasonable test then all you have is a religious belief. And those are a dime a dozen.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Sorry, but if you can't come up with a testable hypothesis then by definition it is not science.

What reasonable test could show your beliefs to be wrong?

If you cannot think of a way to reasonably test your beliefs then they are not scientific.

Of course is testable. If you can reproduce a Prophet with a Holy Book then you will be able to prove beyond any doubt that all religions are man made and God is an imaginary concept.

I thought you would jump at such an opportunity.. Do I detect cowardice?

Highly intelligent Beings qualify as scientific exoperiments you betcha!

 

[loverofhumanity]

Please, no nonsense and hand waving.

How would you test your beliefs? If you cannot think of a reasonable test then all you have is a religious belief. And those are a dime a dozen.

Looks like fear to me. Science should be able to disprove fallacies. I believe it could prove whether Tyese Beings were assisted by a higher intelligence or not. Why are you backing off. Your strongest argument seems to be self insistence and belittling everything I say which say nothing just that you are too afraid to take the topic on because you haven’t got a good enough argument.

 

[loverofhumanity]

But it is a statement that I can support. I see that you seem to be having trouble supporting yours.

I’ve offered the lives of these Beings to support my case.

I said to produce a Prophet and Holy Book of equal power and influence over minds and hearts as Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad, Christ etc and if you can do that then you prove that all religion is manmade and God is a figment of peoples imaginations.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Looks like fear to me. Science should be able to disprove fallacies. I believe it could prove whether Tyese Beings were assisted by a higher intelligence or not. Why are you backing off. Your strongest argument seems to be self insistence and belittling everything I say which say nothing just that you are too afraid to take the topic on because you haven’t got a good enough argument.

In your hypothesis is this higher intelligence material? If it is not, then it is outside the domain of science.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Of course is testable. If you can reproduce a Prophet with a Holy Book then you will be able to prove beyond any doubt that all religions are man made and God is an imaginary concept.

I thought you would jump at such an opportunity.. Do I detect cowardice?

Highly intelligent Beings qualify as scientific exoperiments you betcha!

That is not a proper test. And please, I am not the coward here.

Besides, what makes you think that I can't write a holy book? The problem is that you would simply deny it. That is why your test is unreasonable.

Your test cannot rely on the actions of others. So one more time, what reasonable test would show you to be wrong.

 

[loverofhumanity]

How would scientific tools find a higher intelligence? Is this higher intelligence material? If it is not, then it is outside the domain of science.

The laws of physics are invisible yet acknowledged by science to exist by their effects.

 

[Thief]

when calling upon science.....cause and effect are required

but the big bang won't fit in a petri dish

all we can do is think about it

so.....science claims....nothing moves without Something to move it
science claims....no effect with out a Cause

I agree

God may have reserved His Presence
doesn't mean He doesn't exist

 

[Subduction Zone]

I’ve offered the lives of these Beings to support my case.

I said to produce a Prophet and Holy Book of equal power and influence over minds and hearts as Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad, Christ etc and if you can do that then you prove that all religion is manmade and God is a figment of peoples imaginations.

No, you have merely waved your hands. And your text fails. Try again. Your test cannot rely on the action or inaction of others.

 

[Subduction Zone]

when calling upon science.....cause and effect are required

but the big bang won't fit in a petri dish

all we can do is think about it

so.....science claims....nothing moves without Something to move it
science claims....no effect with out a Cause

I agree

God may have reserved His Presence
doesn't mean He doesn't exist

Actually testable hypotheses are needed. There is no law of cause and effect.

 

[Wandering Monk]

The laws of physics are invisible yet acknowledged by science to exist by their effects.

Way to not answer the question. The laws of physics are derived from hypothesis, prediction experimentation of the material universe

 

[Thief]

Actually testable hypotheses are needed. There is no law of cause and effect.

so much for ALL of scientific experiment

ALL result of experiment MUST be associated
cause and effect

including thought experiments

 

[Wandering Monk]

when calling upon science.....cause and effect are required

but the big bang won't fit in a petri dish

all we can do is think about it

so.....science claims....nothing moves without Something to move it
science claims....no effect with out a Cause

I agree

God may have reserved His Presence
doesn't mean He doesn't exist

The notion of cause and effect may not apply at the quantum level:

Retrocausality - Wikipedia

 

[Subduction Zone]

The laws of physics are invisible yet acknowledged by science to exist by their effects.

And they can be properly tested as well.

 

[Thief]

The notion of cause and effect may not apply at the quantum level:

Retrocausality - Wikipedia

so all you can do is think about it