The explaination behind the creation of religions.

[T-OI]

The name is T-OI. I'm here to debate everything about religion. I'll explain the true reasons why religions are created and about 'god' and in the end, it is up to you whether you believe it or not. I'll post 2 questions with my OWN answers. However, you can debate me if you didn't agree on my answers.

(1) What is the true religion? Christian? Islam? Buddhist? ETC

A= In reality, none of the above is the true religion. everything is nothing but lies. We humans needs something to binds us in order not to make sins even if that 'something' is nothing but an illusion. That is where religion conquered us all. They creates law to do this and to not do that, all of it is in order for us to be scared by the anger of the god if we do what he said we shouldn't and what he said we should do but we didn't do it. All of it is just lies.

I can't blame the creator of each religion, i understand them. They saw mankind as barbaric and has the instinct to fight each other, disrespect each other, kill and lie to each other. All the bad things, we humans did it. We are walking to our own destruction. And so, in order for humanity to not do the bad things, they created a religion to limit the action of human to not do what they called sins. They sacrificed themselves and lie that the religion they introduced is from the 'god'. All of it, is in order to achieve peace.

However, not all 'inventor' of a religion is the same as above, some thinks only for his own benefits.Only a few good man, is able to achieve what i said above. But, as you all know, humans are not perfect. Even if you don't want yourself to do what we call benefits to ourselves, we will eventually do it. Whether we are conscious or unconscious while doing it. That is why most religions has flaws and is imperfect. That is because it is the true nature of us, humans.

(2) Does god even exist?

A= Even for a non-religion believer as myself, i'll admit that god DOES exist. However, god is not so kind as you all thought god is that is said in your religion. Why did i think like that? there are lots of reasons. My first doubt that supports my reasoning are, why does god creates us? humans? why are we on earth? what is our purpose to exist? Why must we take the trial and banished from the heavens because of only two persons doing the mistake? why must we all get the punishment?

God is powerful, mighty and supreme being. He creates what he like and destroys what he didn't. No one could stop god from doing what he wishes. His will is absolute, no one must question him. The creator of everything. Therefore he creates us humans, for unknown reasons, either it is for salvation, entertainment, observing, torturing, no one could tell for sure. What i did know is that god IS a mysteries. If he is so supreme and powerful, he surely could forsee both the past and the future.

And still, with all that power, why didn't he tried to stop our 'father' ADAM, that tried to eat the forbidden fruit when he already see the future that ADAM will do so? when this is the reason why all of us humans are banished from the heavens to the fake reality, earth and forced to take his trial to climb ourselves back to heavens or fall down to hell. what is our sin to deserve such punishment when we didn't do anything wrong? why???

And so, my ultimate answer is that god is both neither evil nor kind. He gives us freedom to do what we like, but for a price that we must pay with it. And my only solution to force myself to believe that god isn't PURE evil, is that he could saw the end of everything and how things end up in the future, all of it is for the sake to balance both the 'real and true world' within his domain and 'the fake reality world of the universe' that we are living.

Thank you for reading. Any questions and i maybe can answer them.

 

[Father Heathen]

Welcome to RF.

 

[YmirGF]

I see you are given to hyperbolic ranting... you should fit in well on RF.

Welcome to the nuthouse.

 

[Caladan]

I always wanted someone who knows the answers to come and save me from the abyss of ignorance. I have peace now.

 

[T-OI]

thanks 4 the greet guys XD

 

[LuisDantas]

Welcome to RF.

Now, about your questions:

(1) What is the true religion? Christian? Islam? Buddhist? ETC

There is no such thing. The premise that religions are "true" or "false" in a per-denomination basis is not sustenable and easily demonstrated absurd.

Your own answer looks like a warning against a specific approach to a specific kind of belief. Please be aware that you are extrapolating from that to religion in general, which I find a bit hurried. At the very least, consider that religion is not uniform in either goal, belief or practice even among members of the very same denomination and temple.

(2) Does god even exist?

No, not as such. Belief in God does of course exist, however. It is over-rated and over-assumed itself, but still a significant belief and fact. It is however rather obviously a human creation by means of religion rather than any of the other ways around.

I wonder how you reached the conclusion that it does exist.

 

[joea]

Welcome to RF.

 

[HonestJoe]

I can't blame the creator of each religion, i understand them. They saw mankind as barbaric and has the instinct to fight each other, disrespect each other, kill and lie to each other. All the bad things, we humans did it. We are walking to our own destruction. And so, in order for humanity to not do the bad things, they created a religion to limit the action of human to not do what they called sins. They sacrificed themselves and lie that the religion they introduced is from the 'god'. All of it, is in order to achieve peace.

I'm not convinced the creation/development of religion would have been as planned or as altruistic. I see religion as a much more fundamental tool to control and manage people and while in some cases it might be to try to prevent them doing "bad" things, I'm sure there would have been other motives involved too.

Even for a non-religion believer as myself, i'll admit that god DOES exist.

That's not an admission, it's a claim. What makes you think the god you describe in some detail (especially given the "mystery" aspect) actually exists?

 

[Levite]

(1) What is the true religion? Christian? Islam? Buddhist? ETC

I disagree with the entire question. There is no such thing as "the true religion." God appears to many peoples, in different ways, to teach and ask different things. Each of those peoples creates a body of religious experience with its own important ideas, its own valuable experiences of God, its own poetry and imagery, and its own flaws and problems. All are potentially valid ways, for those people for whom they were created, to experience and relate to God, and to learn how to be good people in the world. Religion is not a competition. Every religion has truths, and none has a monopoly on truth.

My first doubt that supports my reasoning are, why does god creates us? humans? why are we on earth? what is our purpose to exist? Why must we take the trial and banished from the heavens because of only two persons doing the mistake? why must we all get the punishment?

God is powerful, mighty and supreme being. He creates what he like and destroys what he didn't. No one could stop god from doing what he wishes. His will is absolute, no one must question him. The creator of everything. Therefore he creates us humans, for unknown reasons, either it is for salvation, entertainment, observing, torturing, no one could tell for sure. What i did know is that god IS a mysteries. If he is so supreme and powerful, he surely could forsee both the past and the future.

And still, with all that power, why didn't he tried to stop our 'father' ADAM, that tried to eat the forbidden fruit when he already see the future that ADAM will do so? when this is the reason why all of us humans are banished from the heavens to the fake reality, earth and forced to take his trial to climb ourselves back to heavens or fall down to hell. what is our sin to deserve such punishment when we didn't do anything wrong? why???

And so, my ultimate answer is that god is both neither evil nor kind. He gives us freedom to do what we like, but for a price that we must pay with it. And my only solution to force myself to believe that god isn't PURE evil, is that he could saw the end of everything and how things end up in the future, all of it is for the sake to balance both the 'real and true world' within his domain and 'the fake reality world of the universe' that we are living.

Although I do agree that God is the source of both evil and good (after all, even the Tanakh acknowledges this, in Isaiah 45:7), the above is nonetheless a very Christian reading of Genesis. Perhaps God seems a bit less brutally harsh if one does not believe in the concepts of Original Sin or Hell, as for example, in Judaism, where we have no concept of Original Sin, and no true concept of Hell, either (though some but by no means all Jews do believe in a sort of purgatory).

You might wish to recall that the experience of God can vary greatly from religion to religion, denomination to denomination, individual to individual. And the Tanakh is subject to tremendous interpretation, nor is it all intended to be taken literally. It is usually not productive to universalize one's own experiences with God and scripture, and presume it is the same for everyone, everywhere.

 

[waitasec]

well, imo, religions were created because it dares to claim to have the answers to impossible questions:
why do we die if we are good? why is there evil in the world? why are we here? do we have a purpose?
no one really knows the answer to these types of questions. all we can do is speculate.

and to claim to have the answer is a lie, imo.

i think religion is dangerous, because it places power in the hands of the few rather than the whole. just look at the religious right in this country who use the bible as justification for intolerance...

 

[LuisDantas]

It is a bit less that they claim to have the answers (although it does happen) than that they recognize that we must attempt to answer them, IMO.

 

[McBell]

 

[waitasec]

It is a bit less that they claim to have the answers (although it does happen) than that they recognize that we must attempt to answer them, IMO.

of course it happens...

sure we should ask these questions, i'm not saying or suggesting we shouldn't.
but to assume the answer is found through faith in a holy book is a ridiculous notion, immho

 

[Twilight Hue]

The name is T-OI. I'm here to debate everything about religion. I'll explain the true reasons why religions are created and about 'god' and in the end, it is up to you whether you believe it or not. I'll post 2 questions with my OWN answers. However, you can debate me if you didn't agree on my answers.

(1) What is the true religion? Christian? Islam? Buddhist? ETC

A= In reality, none of the above is the true religion. everything is nothing but lies. We humans needs something to binds us in order not to make sins even if that 'something' is nothing but an illusion. That is where religion conquered us all. They creates law to do this and to not do that, all of it is in order for us to be scared by the anger of the god if we do what he said we shouldn't and what he said we should do but we didn't do it. All of it is just lies.

It's peculiar that you listed theistic and non-theistic religions and assumed that all religion entails a common version of what is referred to as "sins" and "God" of which translates into a formation of laws to do this and not do that. You need to do more research before you place everything in a lump sum here on the pretense that there is a common applicable theme among them and stating this as reality.

I can't blame the creator of each religion, i understand them. They saw mankind as barbaric and has the instinct to fight each other, disrespect each other, kill and lie to each other. All the bad things, we humans did it. We are walking to our own destruction. And so, in order for humanity to not do the bad things, they created a religion to limit the action of human to not do what they called sins. They sacrificed themselves and lie that the religion they introduced is from the 'god'. All of it, is in order to achieve peace.

This can be a partial truth in that there is a sense of "right or wrong" which is commonly developed in religion to help curtail and direct a persons behavior and path. I don't think this is a primary reason for the development of religion though. I would say that religion primarily for the most part develops from unknowings and from what is not fully understand. Some come to conclusions quickly and others happen to be paced for whatever happens to come across which forms the religion.

However, not all 'inventor' of a religion is the same as above, some thinks only for his own benefits.Only a few good man, is able to achieve what i said above. But, as you all know, humans are not perfect. Even if you don't want yourself to do what we call benefits to ourselves, we will eventually do it. Whether we are conscious or unconscious while doing it. That is why most religions has flaws and is imperfect. That is because it is the true nature of us, humans.

Some religions center around humanity. All humans have true nature and there is perfection in imperfection that can easily be pointed out enough. Even what can be regarded as flawed religions reflect true nature.

(2) Does god even exist?

A= Even for a non-religion believer as myself, i'll admit that god DOES exist. However, god is not so kind as you all thought god is that is said in your religion. Why did i think like that? there are lots of reasons. My first doubt that supports my reasoning are, why does god creates us? humans? why are we on earth? what is our purpose to exist? Why must we take the trial and banished from the heavens because of only two persons doing the mistake? why must we all get the punishment?

God is powerful, mighty and supreme being. He creates what he like and destroys what he didn't. No one could stop god from doing what he wishes. His will is absolute, no one must question him. The creator of everything. Therefore he creates us humans, for unknown reasons, either it is for salvation, entertainment, observing, torturing, no one could tell for sure. What i did know is that god IS a mysteries. If he is so supreme and powerful, he surely could forsee both the past and the future.

And still, with all that power, why didn't he tried to stop our 'father' ADAM, that tried to eat the forbidden fruit when he already see the future that ADAM will do so? when this is the reason why all of us humans are banished from the heavens to the fake reality, earth and forced to take his trial to climb ourselves back to heavens or fall down to hell. what is our sin to deserve such punishment when we didn't do anything wrong? why???

And so, my ultimate answer is that god is both neither evil nor kind. He gives us freedom to do what we like, but for a price that we must pay with it. And my only solution to force myself to believe that god isn't PURE evil, is that he could saw the end of everything and how things end up in the future, all of it is for the sake to balance both the 'real and true world' within his domain and 'the fake reality world of the universe' that we are living.

God is an exaggeration of the universe and its mysteries. All references and claims ever made regarding God(s) is always and will be always forever sourced back to Human beings and nowhere else. God is undoubtedly a human invention simply because the source always stems from human lips and in human writing. -NM-

 

[T-OI]

First of all, i appreciate the reply. To answer some of your questions:-

@LuisDantas-

= what i meant by 'true' there, is the one and only religion that we should take. And as my answer said it ' All religion is nothing but lies ' and that would mean, all of the current religion here is fake. And another meaning in that is the teachings is not all true. You should know 'fake' is something of a replica to the original one, but a replica is not 100% the same as the original one, it only follows the basic structure of the original one. You also should notice that, in ALMOST all the religion, there is something similiar and common in each other. That is the basic structure. And that basic structure is covered with the replica, which makes every each one of the religion is different from each other. The basic structure, is then the 'true' one that is left unchangeable, no matter how hard you try hide it.

In my answer, i said god does exist. And as you must understand, every single thing in this world would not be created if there is no creator. Take your mobile phone as an example, if no one planned and designed a mobile phone, mobile phone would never existed in this world. And that planner and designer that made the mobile phone, could be categorized as the creator/god of the mobile phones. It goes the same to us, if we and all, the universe, stars, atoms, molecules, does not have the creator, we would cease to exist. Therefore, i arrived to my own sole conclusion, that god, the creator of creation does exist.

@HonestJoe

Yes, that is why i said, every religion is imperfect. The causes is in the humans itself. As i have stated, humans tends to benefits himselves, either consciously or unconsciously while doing it, doesn't matter if the benefit is small or large, sooner or later we will did it, even if we didn't want to. Take for example, A ruler of a country, creates a law that only high ranked positions could punish criminals as they see fit in whatever the way they want. A judge, thinking that "If i or someone of my status that is low ranked disobey the law, they could do anything they want to us, kill, torture, or slice us on their own will, if for example i only steal some food and then they caught me and punish me like that would be over the limit and cruel" And so, the judges then revise the law, and made some adjustment so that both high ranked and low ranked would have an equalities, to be punished in the same way and in the proper way and so proposed the new law to the ruler. That is what i meant.

refer to my answer @LuisDantas. Why i labelled the god as 'mysteries' is because with our limited knowledge of the human mind, it is impossible to know what god look like, what is it thinking and what does it wants. Like this questions, " Why did the god creates us? for what purpose is our existence? " We could come up with theories, but the human minds could never achieved or find the true answers.

@Levite

Refer to my answer at LuisDantas on what i meant by 'true' there.

And as i have already said, all religion has a similiar basic structure. And as i have said, all religion is imperfect. A replica of the original one, camouflaged by other teachings and benefits, whether that benefits helps other or not, and that, made every religion is different from each other.

@Waitasec

Yes i agreed on what you said. Humans will never be able to answer that questions. All we could do is speculate and make theories of it for finding the answers. However, an answer could come close or far from the true answer, but never 100% correct. Thats why we call it speculation/theories/conclusions right?

and also LOL, my answer is a speculation by myself (explaination above). I never said that my answer is 100% the true answer XD

Yup, that is why religion is imperfect. Some people afraid to learn the truth, and that is why that makes them in a shadowy path of all lie. one of the reasons for this is, in some religion, questioning the teachings of the religion is regarded as betrayal or distrusting to the god and was said that you could be punished the greatest pain of all. This makes humans scared, continued to follow the path that himself is unsure of whether its true or not.

@Nowhere man

'Sins' and 'god' is not the only thing common in every religion. There is also others and lot of similarities. It's just these 'similarities' is shrouded and camouflaged by other things. My answer comes from my own speculation, but i did a LOT of research, from most religion's holy books to science itself, but I could not give you the correct answer because i am myself is just like any other normal humans. My answer is not 100% correct.

What did you think of when you heard or see the word 'god'? I Myself when i use or heard or see that word 'God', thinks that god is the creator of all, the creator of even the smallest atoms and nucleus that is the basic structure of every physical being. God is not human invention, that much is true. You must understand that every being here, in our fake reality world, would not exist if not because of the atoms and nucleus that made things and beings. Who in these world that you could think off, would be able to create atoms and nucleus other than the one, mighty, supreme and absolute being, that is the god. Creator of creations?

P.S= If you all are wondering, i did not convert myself to any religion, so that i would not be binded to any religion's laws. All for the sake to find the truth.

 

[HonestJoe]

T-OI,

I disagree with your argument that everything must have been created (as does Stephen Hawking apparently) but even if you conclude that there must be a creator, there is nothing to say that creator is anything like the one you describe (in quite some detail as I said). For example, a creator need not be singular nor eternal.

I also think it is perfectly possible to conceive of a possible creator which humans would be perfectly capable of understanding. I do think that you image of a creator has, not unsurprisingly, been influenced by the very narrow definitions from the monotheistic religions which dominate our society. If there is a creator god as mysterious and unknowable as you imply, the possibilities run infinitely wider than the image your are presenting.

Indeed, they run so wide that it's pretty much pointless us petty humans to take any heed of them at all. How could we have faith in something we don't, indeed can't, understand?

 

[T-OI]

T-OI,

I disagree with your argument that everything must have been created (as does Stephen Hawking apparently) but even if you conclude that there must be a creator, there is nothing to say that creator is anything like the one you describe (in quite some detail as I said). For example, a creator need not be singular nor eternal.

I also think it is perfectly possible to conceive of a possible creator which humans would be perfectly capable of understanding. I do think that you image of a creator has, not unsurprisingly, been influenced by the very narrow definitions from the monotheistic religions which dominate our society. If there is a creator god as mysterious and unknowable as you imply, the possibilities run infinitely wider than the image your are presenting.

Indeed, they run so wide that it's pretty much pointless us petty humans to take any heed of them at all. How could we have faith in something we don't, indeed can't, understand?

What you said is definitely true, however the name 'god' was used on a being far powerful that surpassed than anything right? therefore, it is not wrong to say that god is singular and eternal. The title and the name 'god' was given to the supreme one of all. And so, the 'god' remains a mysteries.

Thats why i said i am a normal human. My thinking is limited. What i only described is merely a tiny part of the infinite possibilities.

Oh, i think you got that last point wrong. I only said and confirms myself that god does exist. But i did not said to put your faith in the god. For example, we know a stranger does exist, but we can't decide to put our faith in him/she, because we did not know that person, an unknown. The same applies to the god. I did not put my faith in the god. That much is true. It is his own fault giving us freedom to take our own path. Whether to put our faith to him or not. If you read my first post carefully, you will noticed that i actually resented the god..

Once my mentor said this to me " Some truth is better to be hidden than be known "

 

[LuisDantas]

of course it happens...

sure we should ask these questions, i'm not saying or suggesting we shouldn't.
but to assume the answer is found through faith in a holy book is a ridiculous notion, immho

Oh, I fully agree. What I do disagree with is the idea that religions necessarily demand that kind of faith. That might be true of Islam, probably Christianity as well, and AFAIK the list ends there.

 

[LuisDantas]

First of all, i appreciate the reply. To answer some of your questions:-

@LuisDantas-

= what i meant by 'true' there, is the one and only religion that we should take.

There is no such thing. Religion is strictly optional, and there must be a variety of same, to respect the circunstances of various people.

And as my answer said it ' All religion is nothing but lies ' and that would mean, all of the current religion here is fake. And another meaning in that is the teachings is not all true. You should know 'fake' is something of a replica to the original one, but a replica is not 100% the same as the original one, it only follows the basic structure of the original one.

Why do you think that there is an original religion? Or for that matter, that it is somehow better than any other?

You also should notice that, in ALMOST all the religion, there is something similiar and common in each other. That is the basic structure.

Nope. That is not at all true. "Sins" and even "god" are oddities, not part of a basic structure, if we are talking about religions in general. Unless, I suppose, you're a die-hard abrahamist that does not even find other religions worth recognizing as such.

And that basic structure is covered with the replica, which makes every each one of the religion is different from each other. The basic structure, is then the 'true' one that is left unchangeable, no matter how hard you try hide it.

Why assume such an odd setup?

In my answer, i said god does exist. And as you must understand, every single thing in this world would not be created if there is no creator.

True. That is one of the reasons why I don't believe that there is such a thing as a creator god.

Take your mobile phone as an example, if no one planned and designed a mobile phone, mobile phone would never existed in this world. And that planner and designer that made the mobile phone, could be categorized as the creator/god of the mobile phones.

And that is yet another hurdle that your model must overcome: there is no such thing as a creator/god of mobile phones. The actual things have in fact "evolved" quite gradually, ironically in a way that resembles Darwinism to a point. There is definitely no single creator, and in fact it is challenging to even point a non-arbitrary creation.

It goes the same to us, if we and all, the universe, stars, atoms, molecules, does not have the creator, we would cease to exist.

Really? I just don't see how or why.

Therefore, i arrived to my own sole conclusion, that god, the creator of creation does exist.

And how did he come to exist himself?

 

[T-OI]

Man, it's really hard to explain after all.. but its fun XD

There is no such thing. Religion is strictly optional, and there must be a variety of same, to respect the circunstances of various people.

Nooo, i just give the meaning of 'true' there. Read the text after that. You will realize i did not said that you should take this or that religion. It was just a meaning to describe the 'true' i wrote there. XD

Why do you think that there is an original religion? Or for that matter, that it is somehow better than any other?

No, there isn't any original religion. what i meant is that, every religion is based on a story (about the god or whatever) that makes the basic structure of their religion. Then they just add things up to differentiate the religion.

Nope. That is not at all true. "Sins" and even "god" are oddities, not part of a basic structure, if we are talking about religions in general. Unless, I suppose, you're a die-hard abrahamist that does not even find other religions worth recognizing as such.

what do you mean by oddities? and i'am not a die-hard abrahamist but i admit that i don't care about religion and stuff XD

Why assume such an odd setup?

Trust me, even i did not know why the hell i wrote that, it just pops into my mind XD

True. That is one of the reasons why I don't believe that there is such a thing as a creator god

?? looks like my brains gone haywire, don't know what you mean XD

And that is yet another hurdle that your model must overcome: there is no such thing as a creator/god of mobile phones. The actual things have in fact "evolved" quite gradually, ironically in a way that resembles Darwinism to a point. There is definitely no single creator, and in fact it is challenging to even point a non-arbitrary creation.

hmm...let's change the example there..ahh! " How do you solve a maths question? " XDXD

Really? I just don't see how or why.

Let's see, " what do you need in order to make a cake? "

And how did he come to exist himself?

good question there...hmm Beats me, even i didn't have a clue about it XD orr..don't know, maybe during the big bang? XD