The Flood & Worldwide Festivals of the Dead — the connection.

[TagliatelliMonster]

Once again a picture of the location that refutes the Noah's Ark Mtyh:

I think it is both hilarious as well as depressing when adults believe this site would be the result of a massive flood instead of a river slowly eroding it.

 

[Bree]

The OP is pretty much a nothing burger. Some, not all, areas have certain festivals around about this time of year and somehow that was "evidence" for the Flood.

But there are endless ways that we know that the flood of Noah never happened. The scientific evidence refutes it. The historical evidence refutes it. The archaeological evidence refutes it. So why do you believe it? Parts of the Bible should not be read literally.

simple answer as to why I believe it is because Jesus Christ believed it and he was a witness to the event.

There are also many other reasons to believe the flood to be a real historical event.
The earth is covered by 70% water and if the amount of water held in the glaciers does eventually melt, then im pretty confident that much of the land will be covered in water. We are already experiencing parts of the earth being swamped by water and the glaciers are still mostly intact.

We see evidence in the earth itself. We see river beds the extend far out into the seabed at some places and this shows that the sea levels were much lower in the past.
We see deserts covered in sea shells
Beneath the arctic poles they have uncovered frozen rainforests. They've found fully intact mammals with grass still between their teeth snap frozen indicating a sudden quick change in the climate, not a slow gradual one.

The various nations with their myth legends give an indicator of the minds of the ancient people. Many legends and myths are born from real events and the story is passed down from generation to generation. It may change over time but the underlying story is usually based in fact.

 

[Bree]

Once again a picture of the location that refutes the Noah's Ark Mtyh:

why does this picture refute the story?

 

[Subduction Zone]

why does this picture refute the story?

Because that could not have formed quickly. That picture shows millions of years of slow erosion.

 

[Bree]

Because that could not have formed quickly. That picture shows millions of years of slow erosion.

the earth has been here for billions of years....these formations dont have to have been caused by the flood. They very may well have already been like that before the flood. I dont think this refutes the flood story at all. The bible year for the flood is 2370 B.C.E. Thats less then 5,000 years ago. Those formations, like the earth, have been around a lot longer then 5000 yrs. And there can be a worldwide flood and they will still be there.

 

[Subduction Zone]

the earth has been here for billions of years....these formations dont have to have been caused by the flood. They very may well have already been like that before the flood. I dont think this refutes the flood story at all. The bible year for the flood is 2370 B.C.E. Thats less then 5,000 years ago. Those formations, like the earth, have been around a lot longer then 5000 yrs. And there can be a worldwide flood and they will still be there.

Then you would need to explain how over five vertical miles of water came from. Where it went to. And why it did not leave a mark on the face of the Earth. And that is just the start. The problem with the Ark myth is that believers are in effect claiming that their God is a liar.

If God can't lie there was no Flood.

 

[Bree]

Then you would need to explain how over five vertical miles of water came from. Where it went to. And why it did not leave a mark on the face of the Earth. And that is just the start. The problem with the Ark myth is that believers are in effect claiming that their God is a liar.

If God can't lie there was no Flood.

the arctic ice is where most likely where it all went. Did you know that under the ice in both regions is rainforest? That means that the arctic regions were once lush warm and tropical.

The bible says that at the creation of the earth, the upper atmosphere was surrounded by 'water' most likey in the form of a vapour so that it allowed the sun to show thru. When God caused the flood, the bible says he used the 'waters above' to deluge the earth. It also says he caused the 'waters beneath' to spring forth from underground. So 2 things happened. The earth split apart to allow the water table beneath to surge forth, and the water vapor in the upper atmosphere was dropped to the earth as rain.

We can see how the earth has split apart in several places. The continents were all at one time 1 land mass but now we have several land masses.

Also, why would the earth suddenly have a cold snap that came on so quickly? Because when the water vapors above were no longer there, the temperatures changed. That water vapor would have been acting like a blanket over the earth to keep everything warm and 'tropical' ....without it the weather would be much different.

I am entirely convinced that the earth shows a flood is 100% believable.

 

[gnostic]

What flood myths actually originated in Europe?
I only know of the Biblical one, which certainly has to be Middle Eastern in origin.

The ancient Greek have myth of Deucalion and Pyrrha.

The Norse myth about Ragnarok say the world was covered in water, after being set alight. But it is a prophecy that haven't happened. So Ragnarok is pending.

The ancient Celts have no flood myth of their own, but centuries after the medieval Ireland being Christianized, the Irish developed a myth (Lebor Gabálá Erenn, "Book of Invasions of Ireland") that pagan origins with some allusions to biblical stories, including the Flood.

 

[rational experiences]

O God. Earth.

Humans living on earth as theists. State I can talk about the earth I live on.

Recording one universal state that records and keeps records that we humans state is visionary. Advice by creation is visionary.

Not any God.

So you can get a vision in a dream. I was floating in the air with someone else over a flooded earth. Memory recorded. I could see it.

Humans says I will investigate to prove my vision real. Reason to research.

Finds shells on top of mountains. The mountain used to be under the water flood first. Origin.

Theists. I theory on earth as a human about origins. Pretty basic.

Pressure of the flood all ground beneath the flood. Flood evaporates leaving naked bared ground. Mountains rise up.

Thesis earths gods laws first mountain as bare naked arrival. Mountain returned. As mountain was under water.

Mountain sealed. Status not converting. Holy mountain story.

How mountains under the flood owned shells.

A human theist in science hence knew.

You theory by your thinking for design machines and machine reactions about origins. As a human scientist.

Yet you personally don't own any origin.

Pretty basic destroyer human behaviour. One obvious review a human theist lies. Part of a personality disorder human expressed.

So next you have the human pyramid temple attack. Stating the ark landed on the mountain. Which had to be seen to quote where it hit.

Study found it. As humans knew it hit.

Obvious you were alive not under any flood and saw it. You counted it rained for forty days flooding over the mountains where it hit.

Was the teaching. Mountain face had melted. Mountain face second law fusion gets broken also. Face falls at the feet of the mountain. Two laws melt and dust disintegration.

Man's image then seen in clouds after angel is gone. Teaching the angels kept you safe in clouds.

Disintegrated mountain face...burnt blackened mountain face...then covered by veil of cloud flooding. Which you can observe yourself.

Then you have men talking about mountains a cave and hearing the angel. You look at the mountain and see an angel etched into it in image from out of cloud mass.

Burning clouds.

So you get taught science really caused it. As men witnessed the event.

Now science lies as it claimed I created.

Science only invented.

Science should have said I invented boarding of life into the UFO ark as life's abduction. Yet didn't.

Now we are all humans. We own human behaviour. We also know humans tell lies for self serving purposes. One is to continue to apply machine sciences.

So you have a choice. Believe humans experience of the past or let them do it to us all again. As it is science who believed in it.

Why it is difficult for non science to say science believed it. We only got told.

Verbal stories hence own a reality of teaching life for a reason. As intelligence in fallout conditions changes. Memory became verbal.

Only because brain irradiation changes chemical mind functions.

 

[Subduction Zone]

the arctic ice is where most likely where it all went. Did you know that under the ice in both regions is rainforest? That means that the arctic regions were once lush warm and tropical.

The bible says that at the creation of the earth, the upper atmosphere was surrounded by 'water' most likey in the form of a vapour so that it allowed the sun to show thru. When God caused the flood, the bible says he used the 'waters above' to deluge the earth. It also says he caused the 'waters beneath' to spring forth from underground. So 2 things happened. The earth split apart to allow the water table beneath to surge forth, and the water vapor in the upper atmosphere was dropped to the earth as rain.

We can see how the earth has split apart in several places. The continents were all at one time 1 land mass but now we have several land masses.

Also, why would the earth suddenly have a cold snap that came on so quickly? Because when the water vapors above were no longer there, the temperatures changed. That water vapor would have been acting like a blanket over the earth to keep everything warm and 'tropical' ....without it the weather would be much different.

I am entirely convinced that the earth shows a flood is 100% believable.

You probably mean the Antarctic ice Arctic ice is floating. That means that it is neutral. And even if all of the ice on both Antarctica and Greenland melted that would only be about 70 meter or 230 feet increase in sea level elevation:
How would sea level change if all glaciers melted?

And water will not stay up on its own in the atmosphere. The atmosphere has a very limited capacity to carry water and then you are also increasing the pressure a huge amount on the surface of the Earth. Modern life could not life under such pressure.

You are making wild speculations that are easily refutable.

And we understand how and when the Earth's continents split. That was about 200 million years ago. You are all over the place here. When one does not know any science at all one can make up wild stories. But scientists have checked all of these stories and refuted them. Have you ever though of trying to learn a bit? You might start with just the basics. Right now you do not even understand the concept of evidence. You may not understand that you are calling your own God a liar, but that is exactly what you are doing.

 

[rational experiences]

Men of science said ice shifted it's mass and used to be found elsewhere on earth.

Which would mean gods tectonic carpenter plates shifted. Volcanoes would arise and ice melting would reseal under the sea. As fresh water is found in lower sea beds.

Water would end up by mass loss of its presence inside of earth resealing it.

Reason O earths position in space owns ice. Space the pressure condition. Sun body gets smaller everyday.

To time shift means hot cold thesis.

Ice is earths saviour. You theory against saviour so it's body would time shift it's mass. As it owns fused fusion O God owned is historic in pressure causes.

Lucky for us that Satan didn't own it.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

simple answer as to why I believe it is because Jesus Christ believed it and he was a witness to the event.

There are also many other reasons to believe the flood to be a real historical event.
The earth is covered by 70% water and if the amount of water held in the glaciers does eventually melt, then im pretty confident that much of the land will be covered in water. We are already experiencing parts of the earth being swamped by water and the glaciers are still mostly intact.

We see evidence in the earth itself. We see river beds the extend far out into the seabed at some places and this shows that the sea levels were much lower in the past.
We see deserts covered in sea shells
Beneath the arctic poles they have uncovered frozen rainforests. They've found fully intact mammals with grass still between their teeth snap frozen indicating a sudden quick change in the climate, not a slow gradual one.

The various nations with their myth legends give an indicator of the minds of the ancient people. Many legends and myths are born from real events and the story is passed down from generation to generation. It may change over time but the underlying story is usually based in fact.

the arctic ice is where most likely where it all went. Did you know that under the ice in both regions is rainforest? That means that the arctic regions were once lush warm and tropical.

The bible says that at the creation of the earth, the upper atmosphere was surrounded by 'water' most likey in the form of a vapour so that it allowed the sun to show thru. When God caused the flood, the bible says he used the 'waters above' to deluge the earth. It also says he caused the 'waters beneath' to spring forth from underground. So 2 things happened. The earth split apart to allow the water table beneath to surge forth, and the water vapor in the upper atmosphere was dropped to the earth as rain.

We can see how the earth has split apart in several places. The continents were all at one time 1 land mass but now we have several land masses.

Also, why would the earth suddenly have a cold snap that came on so quickly? Because when the water vapors above were no longer there, the temperatures changed. That water vapor would have been acting like a blanket over the earth to keep everything warm and 'tropical' ....without it the weather would be much different.

I am entirely convinced that the earth shows a flood is 100% believable.

There have been no rainforests found under the poles. There are no fossil remains with their last meals frozen in their mouths. Do you not vet the information you use or do you just believe anything that supports what you want to believe?

There is no evidence that the Earth has had a global flood for the last 20 million years. You may be convinced, but based on the evidence you are using, that seems like it might be an easy thing to achieve.

 

[rational experiences]

The teaching witnessed said it rained for forty days. Means you were alive and standing on the ground. Could see the mountain mass changing as temples of science were atop the mount.

Mountain face the law broken by science.

UFO ark blackened scorched mt Sinai face. The veil over the burnt face cloud mass that sat over mountains attacked flooding rain forty days. Cooling irradiating stone.

Which science by time shift had tried to convert mountains into volcanoes by conversion melt. As earths heavens gas they theoried began and came out of volcanoes the teaching.

UFO O calculus a mountains volcano opened channelled. Beginnings.

What pretending you are God o planets history caused as a theist scientist just a human.

Melted golden calf gold melt was philosophers pyramid stone sciences the cause.

Two nuclear laws of sun was introduced in nuclear event melt and conversion of mass into dusts.

Saviour of earth heavens gas burning built by men changing holy wood stated was to sacrifice life by tree of life changed was stated. Man of science changed garden nature.

We lost our ground water and oxygenation. Life began to die irradiated.

Reason water went up by mass over the mountains where it never belonged. Natural evaporation is the heavens law. Small Drops.

Reason vacuum void ignited gas mass sucked it up to stop the atmosphere from igniting into human satanic death.

Huge cloud amassing occurred. The sky rendered a masonry statement.

Pretty obvious why they don't want you to realise what they caused.

In modern experiments instant ground snap ice appeared as proof the saviour shifted.

As ice is the saviour body they wanted time shifted as gods heavens.

To board
Today we say was abducted.

Reason they said to board is because all of life got attacked. Board...ark wood status. Built caused. Built the boarding life NO minused two by two fake time shift.

As wood should not hurt you was a teaching.

Men built science. Men built machines. Machines weren't wood. Sacrificed on wood said science. Told you knew.

Today science is trying to learn how to do it to us claiming it was a scientific method. A calculus of some type he says.

Instead it was after the fact a study of review that taught why it had happened. As oxygen water is bio life owned not machine stone owned.

Science from the stone did not own nature's water and oxygen the teaching.

The flood statement life was nearly destroyed by population removal. The exact same human warning told to everyone today. The exact same message.

Human intention to cause it.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Ancient Egypt lasted for 3,000+ years. I think we'd at least find something. Neither they nor their African brethren relate any flood myths. The most straightforward conclusion is that they hadn't any.

If I forgot to reply, or I overlooked , I’m sorry…. I know it’s been awhile ago, but here:

“Although the continent has relatively few flood legends,[1][2][3][4] African cultures preserving an oral tradition of a flood include the Kwaya, Mbuti, Maasai, Mandin, and Yoruba peoples.[5]”

From Wikipedia.

So it’s inaccurate to say there aren’t any.

And these “festivals of the dead” being celebrated, all over the world, on or near the same day, (on or near November 2nd), corresponding to the “17th day of the 2nd month” after the Jewish New Year?

The odds are ridiculous.

Have a good night, my cousin.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If I forgot to reply, or I overlooked , I’m sorry…. I know it’s been awhile ago, but here:

“Although the continent has relatively few flood legends,[1][2][3][4] African cultures preserving an oral tradition of a flood include the Kwaya, Mbuti, Maasai, Mandin, and Yoruba peoples.[5]”

From Wikipedia.

So it’s inaccurate to say there aren’t any.

And these “festivals of the dead” being celebrated, all over the world, on or near the same day, (on or near November 2nd), corresponding to the “17th day of the 2nd month” after the Jewish New Year?

The odds are ridiculous.

Have a good night, my cousin.

This was refuted a long time ago. And without a testable model it is still not evidence.

 

[Viker]

The end of the Younger Dryas period would have had major flooding events caused by rapid melting of glaciers. Since that end was about just before the rise of civilizations our ancestors would have witnessed many of these catastrophic flooding events. Much of humanity would then have a collective flood story to tell through various tribal and early religious views. All of which later telephoned into modernized myths. There's still no geologic evidence of a simultaneous worldwide flood.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The end of the Younger Dryas period would have had major flooding events caused by rapid melting of glaciers. Since that end was about just before the rise of civilizations our ancestors would have witnessed many of these catastrophic flooding events. Much of humanity would then have a collective flood story to tell through various tribal and early religious views. All of which later telephoned into modernized myths. There's still no geologic evidence of a simultaneous worldwide flood.

I wish that you would quite making this argument. It is simply not true. Though there were rapid sea level rises on a geologic scale. they were not so rapid on a human one. Even at the fastest it was not rapid enough to cause the flooding that you described:

"Two deglacial MWPs were identified at Barbados [Fairbanks, 1989]. Whereas MWP-1A was identified at Sunda Shelf [Hanebuth et al., 2000] and Tahiti [Deschamps et al., 2012], MWP-1B was not captured in Tahiti bore hole cores [e.g., Bard et al., 2010], leading to controversy over its authenticity as a feature of the post-Younger Dryas global sea level record [Lambeck et al., 2014]. MWP-1B was first identified and defined as a 15 m jump in the Barbados sea level curve centered at 9500 14C yr B.P. (11.3 kyr B.P.), based on dated corals from two cores [Fairbanks, 1989, 1990]. U-Th-dated A. palmata data in six cores now confirm and better constrain the amplitude and timing of MWP-1B as a 14 ± 2 m jump (Figure S2), occurring between 11.45 and 11.1 kyr B.P. with maximum rates of sea level rise approaching 40 mm yr−1 (Figure 1a)."

<bolding is mine><rats, no it is not, I guess I cannot put copied text in bold, read the very last sentence>

Please note, the fastest level of sea level rise, and it lasted for about 350 years, was around 4 centimeters a year. Call it two inches a year if you are use imperial (actually only 1.57). That is fast if you have a city that is right one the ocean. In 25 years the buildings closest to the sea would probably be flooded. That is a meter of rise. That is not a catastrophic flood.

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/2015PA002847#:~:text=Our%20computation%20of%20the%20meltwater,accelerated%20after%2011.45%20kyr%20B.P.

 

[Viker]

I wish that you would quite making this argument. It is simply not true. Though there were rapid sea level rises on a geologic scale. they were not so rapid on a human one. Even at the fastest it was not rapid enough to cause the flooding that you described:

"Two deglacial MWPs were identified at Barbados [Fairbanks, 1989]. Whereas MWP-1A was identified at Sunda Shelf [Hanebuth et al., 2000] and Tahiti [Deschamps et al., 2012], MWP-1B was not captured in Tahiti bore hole cores [e.g., Bard et al., 2010], leading to controversy over its authenticity as a feature of the post-Younger Dryas global sea level record [Lambeck et al., 2014]. MWP-1B was first identified and defined as a 15 m jump in the Barbados sea level curve centered at 9500 14C yr B.P. (11.3 kyr B.P.), based on dated corals from two cores [Fairbanks, 1989, 1990]. U-Th-dated A. palmata data in six cores now confirm and better constrain the amplitude and timing of MWP-1B as a 14 ± 2 m jump (Figure S2), occurring between 11.45 and 11.1 kyr B.P. with maximum rates of sea level rise approaching 40 mm yr−1 (Figure 1a)."

<bolding is mine><rats, no it is not, I guess I cannot put copied text in bold, read the very last sentence>

Please note, the fastest level of sea level rise, and it lasted for about 350 years, was around 4 centimeters a year. Call it two inches a year if you are use imperial (actually only 1.57). That is fast if you have a city that is right one the ocean. In 25 years the buildings closest to the sea would probably be flooded. That is a meter of rise. That is not a catastrophic flood.

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/2015PA002847#:~:text=Our%20computation%20of%20the%20meltwater,accelerated%20after%2011.45%20kyr%20B.P.

I'm just trying to point out one of possible other explanations why there would be various flood myths. Some one or a group of ancestors witnessed something and carried that with them. It could be stories developed out of common flood disasters like which we witness these days. I'm not siding with creationists or biblical literalists with my presentation. As there is no evidence of a worldwide catastrophe event.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm just trying to point out one of possible other explanations why there would be various flood myths. Some one or a group of ancestors witnessed something and carried that with them. It could be stories developed out of common flood disasters like which we witness these days. I'm not siding with creationists or biblical literalists with my presentation. As there is no evidence of a worldwide catastrophe event.

The problem is that that explanation does not hold any water. (I did not use that phrase on purpose). When the sea level has always been slowly rising a slightly faster (in human terms) of rise would not be all that memorable. The more likely cause to me would be local once in a century or even once in a millennium floods that regular occur all around the world at different times. The ocean is a huge buffer so even very rapid melt rates do not cause it to rise terribly fast.

That is why I found you an article supported by peer reviewed literature that shows that at even its most rapid rate in the Younger Dryas it was not fast enough to inspire the Noah's Ark Flood.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

And without a testable model it is still not evidence.

And what’s your viable “testable model” supporting the Earth forming by accretion?