YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Many remnants both historically by written documents and archaeological have not been found in many areas of life. That doesn't mean nothing happened.
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The Flood & Worldwide Festivals of the Dead — the connection.
- Thread starter Hockeycowboy
- Start date
I'd hope the learning would review their thinking regardless.
GoodAttention
Well-Known Member
Of course! It is better to learn from another's mistakes than to make your own.
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
Actually the area the Masai live in in Kenya and Tanzania flood regularly during the Indian Ocean's cyclone season
They are not held on the same day.
It's generally November as the winter season begins then.
The November and March festivals are near universal in Northern Hemisphere because they mourn the onset of winter and celebrate the coming of summer.
Africa, being mostly tropical does not have it.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Sorry but this is a Gish Gallop of quotes taken out of context. If you want to discuss the science I am more than happy to do so, but quote mining is always dishonest. Remember the Bible says "There is no God". You just used that sort of argument. If you are serious we can discuss abiogenesis or any other science. Right now I cannot take you seriously with all of your false claims.
But as I said previously, if there's no geological evidence for such a flood, then it's just a story ─ local or adopted ─ about a bad rainy season ─ something we're all getting to know better right now.
Abiogenesis is only a study, a hoped-for philosophy. It has little basis in facts as we currently understand them. And the more we’ve discovered, just creates more obstacles for science to overcome.
And this is not the thread for the topic.
I brought the subjects up, only to highlight your hypocrisy.
Of course, you’d never admit to it…
Which is one of the reasons I usually don’t read your posts.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That is not true. Why can't you address the topic properly?
I do not think that I brought it up. It is usually brought up by creationists when they are admitting indirectly that evolution is a fact.
Oh my, such projection. The hypocrisy is all yours. Please, just because you cannot understand something does not make it false.
And more hypocrisy and false claims from you. So why does reality frighten you so much? It is clear that it does. A person without fear can argue honestly and properly.
As I stated in a more recent post, “on or near…”
Some calendars have changed over time, of course, with more advanced ways of accurately tracking the passing of years; but some cultures actually kept the “17th day of the 2nd month”, as it appears in their respective calendars. This is what (either R.G. Haliburton or Colonel John Garnier) discovered, correlating the discrepancies.
For example, John Garnier wrote in Worship of the Dead, "In Rome… in more ancient times, the 'festival of the spirits,' believed to be the souls of deceased friends, was called 'Lemuria,' and was held on May 11. This also was the seventeenth day of the second month of the year at that time" (p. 6).
IOW, “the 17th day of the 2nd month” (and how it relates to the dead), didn’t originate with the Bible… the Bible just kept the record of mankind’s genuine history.
As mentioned previously, Halloween with its origins in Samhain (honoring the dead), corresponds with other “festivals of the dead” near that same time: end of Oct., beginning of November…
The evidence suggests a link between ancient "Day of the Dead" practices and the destruction of Noah's contemporaries. Noah's Flood began in the "second month, the seventeenth day of the month" (Genesis 7:11). One year later, in the second month, on the twenty-seventh day, Noah exited the ark (Genesis 8:14–16). If we count the timing of Noah's Flood according to the Jewish civil calendar, the seventeenth day of the second month would be somewhere from late October to early November. As author Frederick Filby has observed, "Thus the old world perished and a year later a new era commenced in the same month. Both of these facts are indelibly enshrined in the memory of the human race. To many people right round the world November brings the Day of the Dead. In a number of ancient and primitive calendars November also brings a New Year at a time which has neither solstice nor equinox nor astronomical event to justify it" (The Flood Reconsidered: A Review of the Evidences of Geology, Archaeology, Ancient Literature, and the Bible Reconsidered, 1970, pp. 106–107).
Regarding Egypt..
Historian Alexander Hislop identified the voyage of Osiris as a corrupted version of God's delivery of Noah, and places it at around the same time: "The time when Osiris was 'shut up in his coffin,' and when that coffin was set afloat on the waters, as stated by Plutarch, agrees exactly with the period when Noah entered the ark. That time was 'the 17th day of the month Athyr, when the overflowing of the Nile had ceased, when the nights were growing long and the days decreasing'" (The Two Babylons, p. 136).
The evidence suggests a link between ancient "Day of the Dead" practices and the destruction of Noah's contemporaries. Noah's Flood began in the "second month, the seventeenth day of the month" (Genesis 7:11). One year later, in the second month, on the twenty-seventh day, Noah exited the ark (Genesis 8:14–16). If we count the timing of Noah's Flood according to the Jewish civil calendar, the seventeenth day of the second month would be somewhere from late October to early November. As author Frederick Filby has observed, "Thus the old world perished and a year later a new era commenced in the same month. Both of these facts are indelibly enshrined in the memory of the human race. To many people right round the world November brings the Day of the Dead. In a number of ancient and primitive calendars November also brings a New Year at a time which has neither solstice nor equinox nor astronomical event to justify it" (The Flood Reconsidered: A Review of the Evidences of Geology, Archaeology, Ancient Literature, and the Bible Reconsidered, 1970, pp. 106–107).
Regarding Egypt..
Historian Alexander Hislop identified the voyage of Osiris as a corrupted version of God's delivery of Noah, and places it at around the same time: "The time when Osiris was 'shut up in his coffin,' and when that coffin was set afloat on the waters, as stated by Plutarch, agrees exactly with the period when Noah entered the ark. That time was 'the 17th day of the month Athyr, when the overflowing of the Nile had ceased, when the nights were growing long and the days decreasing'" (The Two Babylons, p. 136).
GoodAttention
Well-Known Member
It makes more sense to me that we follow the geological evidence, and revisit the meaning of the word "flood" and "deluge".
I’ve never read that. Can you provide a reference?
According to
Maasai People, Kenya ,
…they live in “semi-arid to arid regions…”
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
Arid and semi-arid area are usually impacted harder by flooding than other climates. With sparse vegetation and hard, dry soil, these regions cannot inherently absorb heavy rainfall efficiently. When a torrential downpour occurs, the ground cannot absorb the sudden deluge, which results in rapid runoff that forms flash floods.
Hurricanes that from in the Indian Ocean are called cyclones or monsoons
Here is one off the coast of Macassar
"Hundreds of people in Tanzania and Kenya are dead after heavy rain during the region's monsoon season, officials said. Flooding in Tanzania caused by weeks of heavy rain has killed 155 people and affected more than 200,000 others,"
They were entirely wrong. Which brings me to my second point....who is this John Garnier anyways? I could find nothing about him or his credentials.
Anyways these amateurish proposals of colonial and Christian apologetic "historians" are entirely discredited today.
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YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Insofar as the past goes, if in fact a worldwide flood happened and only Noah and a few others survived, these ancient tribes would have been completely obliterated, thus no data found as to their history to be verified.
Hello Blü 2,
Just what evidence would you expect to find, that we don’t have?
The freshwater Permafrost, and the megafauna encased within it, is one.
What caused the last Ice Age?
The Flood’s waters that submerged the Northern and Southern hemispheres — it would cause an Ice Age. That water in those sub freezing temperatures, would form - you got it - ice.
We don’t see the erosion effects of “millions of years” on some Mountain ranges, if they were indeed “millions of years” old. (Some, not all. Some are millions of years old… and show it!)
In many ranges, including the Rockies, the Alps, the Himalayas, and others, we observe pristine, well-defined features. The rocks are very old, but the characteristics they exhibit don’t manifest the erosion and weathering damage millions of years would inflict.
This supports the Bible’s description in Psalm 104:8,9…. “….Mountains ascending, valleys descending…”
Such a cataclysmic event would change earth’s topography, raising and lowering earth’s surface. Especially when some of the water was from “Springs of the vast watery deep.” - Genesis 7:11
This would negate the need for the extreme amount of “water to cover Mt. Everest”…. It wasn’t as high in elevation as today. Or, maybe, still submerged…pristine marine fossils are found on its peaks, as on many mountain ranges.
Take care.
Yeah, right.
“…amateurish proposals…”?
These are facts. When history is uncovered, it is fact. It can be ignored, but that doesn’t change its status as a fact.
It really doesn’t matter who discovers facts.
They are still facts.
As I suspected. You won’t address the question of your disengenuousness.
Lol. I’ve tried, for several years, to reason with you on different topics. It has always ended with your attempt to belittle, and throwing ad Homs. Just sad…
You have no reality to offer. Only inferred concepts.
There’s no fear on my end, lol.
The realization is that any dialogue with you, would be wasted effort. A fruitless endeavor.
Maybe someday… but I doubt it.
Though situations can change and Jehovah can work in mysterious ways.
Yo, mio amigo!
I fear we'll never agree that the flood in Genesis ever occurred in reality. I think I've already mentioned what to me are the three leading arguments against it ─ the absence of any universal geological flood layer, over all continents and islands and the ocean floor, the absence of genetic bottlenecks in all species of land animals, all the bottlenecks dating to the same date as the missing flood layer, and the absence of more than a billion cubic miles of water over and above the water presently on the earth, which would be necessary to cover "the tops of the tallest mountains." There are other cogent arguments as well, about the heat generated by the falling of such a volume of water as described.
This link puts it more eloquently than I can >Last Glacial Period - Wikipedia<.
But water from under the earth can't raise net water levels just by being somehow "released" ─ it would all just flow back faster than it could emerge. Alternatively some of the cavities it came from might collapse with the additional weight above them, so that the space under ground would become represented by a lowering of the earth above the collapsed cavity.
Go well.