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The Folly of Atheism

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Most Atheists are VERY assertive when claiming - or implying ! - that God doesn't exist.

The burden of proof of that statement is on them, of course..

Not remotely true-- the claim of a Universe-Creating Magical Super Being is so unreasonable?

You can never shift the burden of proof away from anyone who makes such a claim-- it's simply not true, until you show otherwise.

Your claims of "god is real" are not founded on reason, but on faith-- which proves nothing.

The existence of a real God is all around you (namely in the fact that the universe and everything in it exists) - but you refuse to see..

How do you know the world wasn't created by Earth Creating Pixies? Or the Invisible Pink Unicorn?

How could you tell the difference? Between a Pixie Universe and This One?
God alone is Real. .

Prove it-- your claim of "because" isn't evidence.
The universe and its contents (such as ourselves) are merely figments of God's imagination, nothingness held in existence only by the loving will of God.

Nonsense! We are Children Of The Invisible Pink Unicorn! Show me why we are not, and I'll use the same "proof" to show why we are not of your god either.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Show how a universe is possible without God; show that it created itself.

You can't:

therefore: Dismissed.

Show me how a Universe is possible without the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Who in His Infinite Noodlyness, Did Boil for our Sins, and Did Bequeath The Holy Pasta that We May Feast.

You can't.

Dismissed.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Show how a universe is possible without God; show that it created itself.

You can't:

therefore: Dismissed.

Show me how a universe is possible without Superman Creating it, using his Super Universe Building Kit, when he was 10, as a Science Fair project on Krypton---which is actually in Another Universe altogether.

You can't.

Dismissed.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Show how a universe is possible without God; show that it created itself.

You can't:

therefore: Dismissed.

Show me the Universe was NOT created by relatives of the cookie-making Keebler Elves. These relatives, instead of mere delicious cookies?

Went into Universe Baking. And one thing led to another and the Big Bake happened. 13 billion years later?

Here we are!
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
So no one can ever find Truth no matter how hard they try and why is it egocentric to search for Truth?

Yes, the best search is for knowledge and understanding. Truth is a moving target beyond fallible human reach.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Evil is the work of Satan and the other angels who tried to depose God, but failed..

So. Your god is SO grossly Incompetent, that it is incapable of halting Satan from ruining it's Good Works?

Wow. That's pretty evil, or lame or both.

God = Goodness (and Goodness = God, God being the only source of Goodness)..

Also your god is the only source of EVIL-- therefore?

EVIL.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Evil is the absence of goodness, whether (largely) in, say, Auschwitz and the Gulag and the souls of those who built them or (wholly) in Hell.

There is a difference between the infinite kindness and mercy of God and the absence of such qualities in a dictator.

BTW those in Hell are there because they hate God (and all He stands for) not because God hates them - He doesn't; and by His very nature can't ("God is love", 1 John).

I don't hate your god-- I don't believe your EVIL god is real.

I also don't hate Unicorns.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Ah, there you are!

Now since in your OP you state that atheism is folly, I wonder if you're yet able to tell us what a real god is, such that should we find a real candidate, we'll be able to tell whether it's god or not?

If there's no definition of a real god, it wouldn't be folly to conclude that this only leaves imaginary gods, would it?
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member

Did you read the books that Meme is from? I doubt it-- Douglass Adams, the author, was as Godless as they come.

Here's a quote from Adams:
adams puddle.jpg
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
Show me how a universe is possible without Superman Creating it, using his Super Universe Building Kit, when he was 10, as a Science Fair project on Krypton---which is actually in Another Universe altogether.

You can't.

Dismissed.
As a toddler, Clark Kent was often heard responding to his mother Martha's announcement that it was bath time, with responses similar to this one, "No, me want finish reading 'Tale of Two Cities'".

A little known bit of Superman trivia that your response reminded me about.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
There is a difference between "not knowing" and not "wanting to know". Many choose the safe option of agnosticism because they feel it legitimizes their position, plus the fact that they may find walking in a religious minefield too daunting. Better to stay on the safe side rather than to get hurt or upset anyone.

This may be true of some, but I don't know how many. The "safety" you're talking about is relative to your surroundings. For someone raised in a JW family, being openly agnostic would hardly be the "safe" choice. I would venture to say that many religious people remain in their religion as a matter of the kind of "safety" you're talking about.

If people really want to know about anything...."where there's a will, there's a way."

Just untrue. I can want to know if there is life on a planet orbiting Alpha Centauri all I want. I can't know till we have the evidence to make a reasonable determination.

Funnily enough, God gave Israel many tangible signs of his presence before and after they left Egypt, and still they left him. Humans become immune even to miracles it seems, which is why they no longer happen.

Oh balderdash. The issue in the Bible isn't that people stopped believing God existed despite him showing up and talking to them. His issue was them disobeying him anyway. And yet despite knowing they'd disobey him anyway, he still showed up. So again, I ask: if it was good enough for them, why isn't it good enough for us?

God requires only those things that humans find almost impossible these days...."faith, hope and love"...fading into a bygone era by the looks.

Faith is fading (thankfully). Not really the other two from what I've seen.

No, I mean that so many of us are totally satisfied with what we observe in nature...it speaks louder to us than the assumptions of godless science....which has become the substitute "religion" for those disenchanted with mainstream religious offerings. It seems like such a viable alternative....not everything is as it seems.

To channel Bill Maher, science is a religion like abstinence is a sex position. That's just an equivocation religious people tell themselves to rationalize their beliefs that have no (good) evidence.

When I researched how much of the science that is fed to the masses is actually just assumption and guesswork, I was quite amazed that they could present any of it as "fact".

I would ask for an example, but I think it would send us down a rabbit trail. Maybe start a thread?

Can you name me anything that man uses of his own invention that has no purpose? Purpose demonstrated intent, and intent needs intelligence to plan ahead. I see the connection in nature where everything is designed to interact. The amazing cooperative function of the eco-system is no undirected accident. Biological function is amazingly designed.

Again the false dichotomy. I agree, ecosystems do not occur "by accident." That doesn't mean God did it.

For many they are.

For you, apparently. :shrug: My point is those aren't the only options.

That is the key to any discussion about "scientific facts"....the only provable "fact" that we agree with is adaptation.....lab tested and observed to be an amazing mechanism by which living creatures can adapt to a changed environment or food source. The "fact" of that change is confined to individual species however, and science has no real evidence that adaptation can cross species barriers to invent another "kind" of creature, no matter how much time is thrown at it.

That's simply false.
29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: Part 5

Darwin's finches were all still finches, the tortoises were still tortoises and the iguanas were still clearly identifiable as iguanas. Nothing in any scientific experiment has ever proven otherwise. Assumptions are not facts...its surprising to me how many people are led to believe that they are. Mislead the teachers and you mislead all who are taught by them.

The only one I see making assumptions is you. First of all, "kind" is an ill-defined term pulled from Genesis 1 that even creationists can't consistently define. Second, why would you assume that the genetic mutation and adaption you admit occurs in nature is somehow limited to within a certain species? You have no biological or genetic rationale to defend that idea.

Have you ever talked to an actual biologist who does research on speciation about your criticisms here?

No, that is not what I said.

I quoted you...

I said that God is searching for those whose hearts are inclined towards him and who want to get to know him. He is not far away from any of us, and we have more information available today on so many topics, that we can find out whatever we want to know...if we really want to.

Ironically, the more widely I've learned and read, the less convinced I've become by the claims of any religion.


Jesus likened it to a search for hidden treasure. If you knew that buried in a certain field there was untold treasure, wouldn't you start digging? It depends on what you value I guess...."one man's trash"...as they say. works both ways.

If someone told me there was untold treasure in a certain field, I'd ask for evidence. Only someone completely gullible would just go start digging in a field on an empty promise. Next thing I know you'll be telling me to go find the Fountain of Youth.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
That's just silly - if you're playing hide and seek, the whole point is you don't tell everyone where you're hiding.
God told everyone where He is hiding and why He is hiding, through Baha’u’llah.

Now it is everyone’s job to go and read about that. :D

It’s fascinating actually, much more interesting than a God that shows up.

One reason God does not show up is because God does not want those people who would only believe in Him if He showed up to believe in Him....
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
If God is too holy to be in our presence then there would have to be another, obvious way in order for us humans to fulfill a belief requirement.

Since there is no obvious way to God i would consider belief unimportant.
There is. God reveals Himself through Manifestations of God who represent Him and reflect His Attributes.
Why would belief, or any intellectual commitment matter so much when nature itself is so indifferent, wild and violent?
Because through that belief and intellectual commitment we might come to understand why nature itself is so indifferent, wild and violent. I am still working on that. :)
 
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