It's not your opinions that's the problem, is the spreading of ignorance and misinformation.Another pot?..you think your posts endear everyone to atheism?
Who says we have to be winsome and effective proselytizers? Isn't that against forum rules?
Can't we just debate our opinions, without being attacked, personally, for them?
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The Folly of Atheism
- Thread starter usfan
- Start date
Catholicus
Active Member
To be an atheist in one's head (mind) isn't damnable - because an atheist of that sort may hold and serve an ideal of Goodness that is, in fact, God.
But someone who is an atheist in his or her heart, is evil, and thus has problems.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Yes. SOMETHING or (perhaps) someone did! Because the universe exists we CAN logically conclude as much.
However, God is NOT the only reasonable explanation! Before we can even CONSIDER that as a viable answer, you must FIRST provide verifiable evidence that your proposed God even EXISTS!
You see I can just as easily make the claim that the SOMETHING that caused the universe to exist are magical pixies farting. A completely unintended consequence of pixie farts is the creation of universes. Then I could go on to state "Pixie farts are the only reasonable possibility.'
Of course, my claim is absolutely ABSURD, until I can FIRST provide verifiable evidence that these magical pixies even exist, let along that the universe is the product of their farts.
Catholicus
Active Member
The other possibilities ?
Catholicus
Active Member
The more Atheists have found themselves on the losing side (since the late-1970's) the shiftier and more evasive they have become.
Then who is Allah?
"Those who believe that Allah has a son must be admonished since this is a monstrous blasphemy and falsehood (18:4-6).
Allah has never begotten a son and there are no deities beside him (23:91).
Jews say that Ezra is the son of Allah while the Christians say the Messiah is the son of Allah. May Allah destroy them. They are both perverted. They worship rabbis, monks and the Messiah, the son of Mary, as Lords besides Allah in opposition to the monotheistic command given them (9:30, 31)."
Where koran says God has no Son
Catholicus
Active Member
Surely even an atheist can see the difference between the ideas - the concepts - of (1) God and (2) of pixies (magical or not, flatulent or not) ?
Catholicus
Active Member
A mistaken idea of the God of Abraham.
Catholicus
Active Member
It was just a failed science experiment at a scientific institution in a higher dimension.
Catholicus
Active Member
Nor does it mean your criteria are right, obviously. If your criteria and their criteria are contradictory, clearly someone is wrong, if not all of you.
If God doesn't care if we believe in him, and he imposes no negative afterlife repercussions on non-believers, okay fine. Then this whole conversation is sorta irrelevant.
Trail: that's a self-imposed limitation on God's part, is it not? Is he not all powerful? Did he not create us/the universe? If so, he chose to create a situation to prevent himself from directly communicating with us.
Which for the 8th time, is...absurd, friend. And is 100% his choice and his fault.
So you actually have better communication skills than your own deity. And yet you think your deity created this whole situation by design. Again, that's...say it with me now...
What does the age of a religion have to do with whether you should give it up? It's irrelevant if your religion started 5 minutes ago or 5 millennia ago. You should give up your religion if you dont have rational reasons/strong evidence to believe it's true.
And your religion is no different in that regard.
Then God is not all-powerful, and yet he chose to create this silly situation where his ability to communicate would be limited to middle men.
Again there's no evidence they've "always" existed. Yes, obviously, religions have founders. As I said before, men claiming they are needed to be mediators of the divine is exactly what one would expect in a godless universe.
Before that, you would need to demonstrate your God exists in the first place.
You just got through telling me you believe there have "always" been divine messengers, even before we have written evidence for them, because Baha'u'llah told you so. How is that not blind faith?
Yes. The process is called theocracy.
I've already done so, right here. We both have a lifetime of experience seeing that directly communicating with others is the most effective way to do so. As small children we play the game telephone to learn exactly that.
There. Your search is over, Trail! Congrats!
Of course not, because all you've said is, "well he's spirit, he just can't." Lol, that's not an argument or a rationale, it's just a declaration. And again, God invented the game, which means he's responsible for the rules.
Believe it or not, this isn't my first rodeo, either. I used to be a theist myself. I've also spent years listening to and talking to people of different faith backgrounds re: their reasons for believing. The more widely and deeply I allowed myself to read and study, the more liberal and nuanced my theological views became, till I realized I had no good reason to believe any of it other than as a kind of metaphor. So, the blinders are off. I can't put them back on again.
In a godless universe, there would be no concept either of gods or of God.
Catholicus
Active Member
Failed ? It works remarkably well.
Catholicus
Active Member
Not good for unwanted babies, though.
Or maybe creating universes is just part of the curriculum in a university in a higher dimension.
Catholicus
Active Member
God is the sole source of the human mind, thus of knowledge.
God is the overall picture, the inventor of the human mind, thus of science.
Religion begins as the hope that there is hope, not as an intended explanation of the universe.
Which is God, not religion.
Are you sure? Aren't he the puppet-master and you the puppet? You seem to be dancing as if he's always pulling the strings... correction, seems to be the Catholic Church pulling your strings?
Catholicus
Active Member
God is the Uncreated - the first cause, the starting point of everything.
There necessarily IS one !
If not God, then who or what ?
But - with WMD's and climate change - we're so much wiser and CLEVERER than those benighted religious people of the past !
Of course not. There may be all kinds of beings besides gods lurking in higher dimensions capable of creating universes. It might even be a parlor game.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Surely you can see that both fantastical claims come with an equal lack of verifiable evidence. At least in MY example I explain HOW my magical fairies created the universe. With yours we're simply told that your fantastical god just did it. The only difference is that you've been brainwashed to believe in your God since birth. If your parents and community had brought you up with stories about the magical farting fairies, you'd be claiming that it's OBVIOUS that THEY created the universe
Thus if you can dismiss my magical fairy claim as silly, I can just as easily dismiss your God claim as silly.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Your reasoning is a bit lacking.