The Folly of Atheism

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer, let's make a thought experiment. Let's pretend that you've never heard about this Baha'i religion and this Bahá'u'lláh and I asked you about God. Which religion and which sacred texts would you quote at me then to tell me what God wants and needs? I am trying to establish whether you actually know anything at all about what God wants and needs or if you simply are parroting what others say they know.

If I had never heard of the Baha’i Faith and Baha’u’llah and you asked me about God I would tell you I do not know anything about God, what God wants or needs. I would not quote other sacred texts because I am not familiar with other sacred texts.

I am not parroting anything, I just quote what Baha’u’llah wrote, which I consider accurate information about God since he received a Revelation from God.

 

[Trailblazer]

You don't know it. It makes sense to you, but that is not knowledge for this everyday world we are all a part of it. You can believe it and I accept that you do, but you don't know. Nor do strong non-believers know that we die, when we die. They just believe it. What happens when we die, is unknown.

I believe it and I know it, even though I cannot prove it.
There is more than one way of knowing something.

What happens when we die is not clearly defined but it is known to some.
You might not consider it knowledge, but I do.
Information acquired by experience is knowledge.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's good for you to know, but what I specifically asked was how you know and how you can demonstrate that you know. Are you able to do that?

Demonstrate means prove and I cannot prove that I know.
But if you want to know how I know, ask me again and I will try to explain later.
Right now I am off to work.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I believe it and I know it, even though I cannot prove it.
There is more than one way of knowing something.

What happens when we die is not clearly defined but it is known to some.
You might not consider it knowledge, but I do.
Information acquired by experience is knowledge.

Well, you are of The Baha'i Faith, so I will leave it there. You try to do good for all humans, so peace to you.

From one follow human to another human, may your God be with you. Love.

 

[columbus]

Hmm.. is there a double standard here? I hear atheists bashing and viciously ridiculing theists over their beliefs, ALL THE TIME.. ..even IN THIS THREAD.. but this mild, tongue in cheek jab is howled at with righteous indignation!

I look forward to you correcting the bias from the many militant, intolerant atheists, here..

..can dish it out, but can't take any return fire?

Is atheism off limits for philosophical scrutiny, and to be handled with kid gloves, because of the dainty, snowflake dispositions of atheists?

Is atheism a one way shooting arcade, where they get unlimited free shots, with no return fire allowed?

You might get less abrasive condescension from other posters if you didn't post so much of it.

Especially since you clearly don't understand the broad range of world views that fall into the category of atheist. Heck, I have a sort of God image, but I still refer to myself as atheist because I consider religion to be fiction.

You get frustrating.
Tom

 

[Left Coast]

There's much better evidence for God's existence, in fact - that each of us exists.

Please demonstrate.

The historian you mention is also a professional atheist

Yea, you said that already. Gonna respond to the actual content he wrote?

 

[ArtieE]

The confirmation of prophecies that were fulfilled is explained this book: William Sears, Thief in the Night

Wasn't William Sears a Baha'i?

The explanation of predictions that came to pass and how they came to pass are in this book: The Challenge of Baha'u'llah. In the book is a list of 30 specific things Baha’u’llah predicted that later came to pass.

Isn't Gary L. Matthews a Baha'i? You must have misunderstood. I'll read them, but I am not looking for Baha'i propaganda written by biased people, I'm looking for something written by somebody who actually objectively can confirm what these books say. You wouldn't expect me to believe in the Bible based on what believers in the Bible write about it do you?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

That is true. God is competent and capable but chooses not to be convincing.

So.... .PURE EVIL, then? Gotcha.

Good thing your god is also myth, then isn't it?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Hardly....Both my parents dropped out of Christianity before any of their children were born.
I never even heard the word God or religion until I discovered the Baha'i Faith during my first year of college.
I was not even curious about God as a child, I took after my dad who was an atheist...
I never read one page of the Bible till I came to forums in 2013.

Never having been exposed to God or Christianity or the Bible as a child I saw that the Baha'i Faith made sense.

Really? You actually live in North America and/or Europe, and claim to "never having been exposed to...."

Do you speak English? Then you were indoctrinated in "god"..

 

[ArtieE]

If I had never heard of the Baha’i Faith and Baha’u’llah and you asked me about God I would tell you I do not know anything about God, what God wants or needs. I would not quote other sacred texts because I am not familiar with other sacred texts.

Precisely my point. If you had been familiar with any other sacred text and believed in it you would have quoted that text to me pretending to know what God wants or needs no matter which text, The Bible, The Quran, the Book of Mormon or whatever. This is the reason why we logical and rational people want believers to provide independent and objective and corroborating evidence that what you are quoting is the actual truth and factual! Otherwise your quotations are worth nothing!

I am not parroting anything, I just quote what Baha’u’llah wrote

The definition of "to parrot" is To repeat verbatim what someone else has said or is saying." Please, just provide five things that can be independently and objectively confirmed by somebody not affiliated with Baha'i!

 

[Left Coast]

Luke's Gospel and Acts - "obviously mythological" containing "implausible BS" ? - your mask of detached impartiality really has fallen off !

No, same judgment there as for any mythological tale.

In Luke 1, a priest goes into the temple and an angel shows up next to the altar who says he's going to have a son. When he questions this because he and his wife are old, the angel magically curses him with muteness. He remains mute until the end of the chapter, when his son is 8 days old and they take him to be circumcised and he agrees with his wife that the boy should be named John, when he miraculously can talk again.

Meanwhile, the same angel stops over to talk to Mary and also tell her she's going to be pregnant with a son too - even though she's a virgin. How? Oh, God is going to magically impregnate her, of course.

Then there's the fact that the whole narrative here is crafted to echo the story of Abraham and Sarai in Genesis. I'll let you do some research on the obvious parallels without going off on too much of a tangent.

This stuff is not history. It is literature, myth.

You need to stop thinking of everything in black and white.

LOL. I already exposed two examples of black and white thinking on your part. Please stop projecting.

Many people have died for beliefs that WE recognise as false - but who has ever died (voluntarily) for beliefs that THEY THEMSELVES regarded and knew to be false ? No one.

But that is what you are asking me to believe of Simon Peter and James.

No, it isn't. You're just ignoring what I said. Isn't is possible the Apostles were honestly mistaken?

Regarding Islam - I'm not asking you to believe in it; but merely to stop SPREADING it by attacking Christianity ! Many USA citizens have converted to Islam since 9/11, for example. To undermine Christianity is to create a gap which Islam is filling.

A silly strategy. I already explained that arguing for secularism/liberalism kills two birds with one stone.

Of course you're suffering from the weird delusion that because the world has become steadily more Westernised over five centuries, that process will necessarily continue in future. The West is no longer in the driving-seat, however much some people may imagine it still is.

I dont think it's guaranteed by any means. That doesn't mean we need to treat Christianity with kid gloves. We can walk and chew gum.

 

[Left Coast]

Myth merely means "story."

It is often used, enthusiastically, by Fake Intellectuals in their attacks on Christianity.

Yea, a story that is not intended to convey actual history, but a theme or moral or spiritual lesson.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Citations please.

See my very next post after that--

 

[Left Coast]

To be an atheist in one's head (mind) isn't damnable - because an atheist of that sort may hold and serve an ideal of Goodness that is, in fact, God.

But someone who is an atheist in his or her heart, is evil, and thus has problems.

This is just "we need God to be moral" repackaged. We don't. Please see the litany of threads on this topic.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Sorry Bob, it is not only Wikipedia that supports my claim.
Fasten your seat belt and prepare yourself for a long ride.

Google says you are not telling the truth. I'll take Google over your RELIGIOUS LYING sources any day.

 

[Left Coast]

In a godless universe, there would be no concept either of gods or of God.

That doesn't follow at all. We have concepts for all kinds if things that we all agree don't exist.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Religion in the West = Christianity...

You are right Bob, Christianity is declining, but Islam and the Baha'i Faith are growing.

Besides that, the West is not the whole world, it is just the Western world, mostly Christian.

Half my links were global in scope-- you just don't like them because they are not RELIGIOUS --

But, we can easily prove religious sources lie, and LIE and LIE pretty much always.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I considered atheism, but there weren't enough holidays. ~Henny Youngman

ALL holidays are atheist ones-- this is because atheists are not brainwashed into Magical Non-think.

Furthermore, since nobody-- NOBODY has any proof of their particular god or gods? NONE of their "holidays" are religious--not really.

Everyone is Godless-- it's just that lots of people pretend otherwise.

 

[Catholicus]

Then who is Allah?
"Those who believe that Allah has a son must be admonished since this is a monstrous blasphemy and falsehood (18:4-6).
Allah has never begotten a son and there are no deities beside him (23:91).
Jews say that Ezra is the son of Allah while the Christians say the Messiah is the son of Allah. May Allah destroy them. They are both perverted. They worship rabbis, monks and the Messiah, the son of Mary, as Lords besides Allah in opposition to the monotheistic command given them (9:30, 31)."
Where koran says God has no Son

Muslim misunderstandings about Christianity, yet again.

BTW are you a Muslim ?

If you keep attacking Christianity, you soon will be, like it or not.

 

[Catholicus]

Are you sure? Aren't he the puppet-master and you the puppet? You seem to be dancing as if he's always pulling the strings... correction, seems to be the Catholic Church pulling your strings?

You're stating the old and silly idea that Catholics are puppets.