The Four Horsemen

[viole]

The links prove that 1914 was a turning point in history - a significant marker which can be clearly identified.
The marker gives evidence that the prophecy given by Jesus, concerning the last days, began.

It supports the information in the OP, that the white horse went out with its rider, and was followed by the red, pale, and black horse, with their riders.

Thus the Gospels, and the other letters in the Greek scripture - including the book of Revelations, accurately foretold what we are seeing the fulfillment of.

Well, you said in your OP that this looks like the fulfillment of end prophecies. I ask you why, since those horses existed since the beginning of humanity.

ciao

- viole

 

[nPeace]

Well, you said in your OP that this looks like the fulfillment of end prophecies. I ask you why, since those horses existed since the beginning of humanity.

ciao

- viole

You are supposed to explain why, and since the book of Revelation was written in the first century AD, and it is a prophecy - what John saw, of what will occur in the Lord's day, then it cannot possibly have been describing anything "since the beginning of mankind".
That's like saying, the chimp that died last year, and was buried... It's bones are really those of a ten million year old ape.... because I say so. So there.

 

[F1fan]

Depression???
What does depression have to do with this? You lost me on that.


Yup. ...and?
You guys seem to be at a lost for words. Where is all the mouth?


What about it?
Ah. I think you are thinking like @viole and @TagliatelliMonster that the prophecies are about new events. Wrong.

I'll use what I asked @viole
Think of the school bus you caught, as a youth... if you travelled by bus.
The bus is no different to other buses of its kind, except there is a difference, which allows you to identify it as the school bus.

Think of the sign of the last days like that.
It is a composite sign. All parts of the sign, make the whole.

So while there were wars before, pestilences, earthquakes, etc..., when the rider of the white horse begins his ride, it will be followed by the other features, on a scale, like never before, and all occuring at the same time... on a scale like never before.

(Matthew 24:7) For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. . .

(Luke 21:11) There will be great earthquakes, and in one place after another food shortages and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and from heaven great signs.

(Matthew 24:12) and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold.

(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

These are signs we see today, are they not? If not, why not?
How could Jesus have known there would be great earthquakes, food shortages, amd pestilences in one place after another,?
That's pretty accurate to predict 2000 years in advance, don't you think?
Don't we see that the love of many has really grown cold? What do you see?

Would you not agree that 2 Timothy 3:1-5 accurately describes the attitudes we see today, on a grand scale?
How is it that someone could know that 2000 years later, the world would be this way, and advance from bad to worst?

That's different to how many, including you guys think, who are optimistic about our future, and things becoming better.
I have had some of you tell me that things are getting better, and people tell me they will get better.... but what are we seeing? The opposite.


Um. that's not true. where did you get that from. Certainly not me.

We did not make the events happen as they were foretold. The facts are before us. Why do you not accept them?

I didn't put a lot of work into this discussion because we see a history of Christians trying to apply their current events to fit the Bible, Revelations, the End Times, Rapture, whatever. Christians like these seem an impatient bunch who are bored with life and want the bible to finally make sense for them after nearly 2000 years. Hal Lindsey scared many people in the 70's with his book The Late Great Planet Earth where he was predicting nuclear war coming soon. Guess what? Didn't happen. He had to write a follow up that also had bad predictions based on the Bible. Guess what? Didn't' happen. Some Christians thought 9-11 was the End Times. Guess what? Wasn't.

Your post is more of the same, just believers wanting their time to be significant to the Bible.

 

[nPeace]

I didn't put a lot of work into this discussion because we see a history of Christians trying to apply their current events to fit the Bible, Revelations, the End Times, Rapture, whatever. Christians like these seem an impatient bunch who are bored with life and want the bible to finally make sense for them after nearly 2000 years. Hal Lindsey scared many people in the 70's with his book The Late Great Planet Earth where he was predicting nuclear war coming soon. Guess what? Didn't happen. He had to write a follow up that also had bad predictions based on the Bible. Guess what? Didn't' happen. Some Christians thought 9-11 was the End Times. Guess what? Wasn't.

Your post is more of the same, just believers wanting their time to be significant to the Bible.

Okay, bye. Feeble attempts at hit and runs by Atheists are all the same. Nothing surprising here.
...and you are not talking to "Christians".

 

[F1fan]

Okay, bye. Feeble attempts at hit and runs by Atheists are all the same. Nothing surprising here.
...and you are not talking to "Christians".

You should have foreseen it.

 

[F1fan]

You are supposed to explain why, and since the book of Revelation was written in the first century AD, and it is a prophecy - what John saw, of what will occur in the Lord's day, then it cannot possibly have been describing anything "since the beginning of mankind".
That's like saying, the chimp that died last year, and was buried... It's bones are really those of a ten million year old ape.... because I say so. So there.

Many more objective scholars suggest Revelations had to do with the current times of the writers of the book, not the future. I think is a more sound meaning of the book than what some Christians suggest, like this thread.

 

[nPeace]

You should have foreseen it.

I did. Especially from F1fan... who is not new to me.

 

[nPeace]

Many more objective scholars suggest Revelations had to do with the current times of the writers of the book, not the future. I think is a more sound meaning of the book than what some Christians suggest, like this thread.

That's not dealing with the OP, or the evidence presented.
Another attempt at hit and run? You missed.

 

[nPeace]

Many more objective scholars suggest Revelations had to do with the current times of the writers of the book, not the future. I think is a more sound meaning of the book than what some Christians suggest, like this thread.

Also, you are not talking to "objective scholars" who suggest anything.

 

[F1fan]

Also, you are not talking to "objective scholars" who suggest anything.

Objective scholars will think in regards to what is most likely real and true. That's why they are more credible.

 

[viole]

You are supposed to explain why, and since the book of Revelation was written in the first century AD, and it is a prophecy - what John saw, of what will occur in the Lord's day, then it cannot possibly have been describing anything "since the beginning of mankind".
That's like saying, the chimp that died last year, and was buried... It's bones are really those of a ten million year old ape.... because I say so. So there.

Well, tht is my point. Those things we see today have been happening all the time. So, I think the prophecy is a bit silly. It is like saying, verily, verily I say to you, some people will die before being 40 years old.

i have to ask. Sad, but so what? Everybody can make that sort of prophecy.

ciao

- viole

 

[F1fan]

That's not dealing with the OP, or the evidence presented.
Another attempt at hit and run? You missed.

My first post to this thread was a rebuttal to the OP.

So no hit and run. Just a counter narrative. A more rational interpretation of revelations and the bible.

 

[Triumph]

Jesus killing off those who dont follow His religion certainly fits any non overly specified to the point of strawman definition of theocracy.

In fact who the clergy allegedly belong to is irrelevant to your definition, so since Jesus is not seen as God in your religion He is presumably just (allegedly) a member of God's clergy, in which case He fits the modern definition of theocracy as presented by you (without citation i might add) like a hand in a glove.


You mean aside from drowning a herd of innocent pigs in a river (asphyxiation is no easy death)?

Besides that its a lame argument, you are essentially arguing its ok for Jesus to do tyrannical things like kill all those who dont believe in Him the second time round just because He allegedly didn't do anything tyrannical the first time around.

Its like saying ask me to dinner twice, I'll be polite and the perfect guest the first time round but I'm not a tyrant even though I'll kill all your family members who refuse to follow my religion the second time round because I was good the first time.

Doesn't make sense.

In my opinion.

Pigs in scripture symbolically represent greedy bankers. A dog is a person that will do the commands of the hand that feeds him regardless of if the command is for good or evil and without regard for the consequences.

 

[Triumph]

Who hasn't heard of the four horsemen of the apocalypse?

Spoiler: Revelation 6:1-8

(Revelation 6:1-8) 1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder: “Come!” 2 And I saw, and look! a white horse, and the one seated on it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went out conquering and to complete his conquest. 3 When he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say: “Come!” 4 Another came out, a fiery-colored horse, and it was granted to the one seated on it to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another, and he was given a great sword. 5 When he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say: “Come!” And I saw, and look! a black horse, and the one seated on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 I heard what sounded like a voice in the midst of the four living creatures say: “A quart of wheat for a denarius and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the olive oil and the wine.” 7 When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say: “Come!” 8 And I saw, and look! a pale horse, and the one seated on it had the name Death. And the Grave was closely following him. And authority was given them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with food shortage and with deadly plague and by the wild beasts of the earth.

Of course the book of Revelation is written in signs, or symbolic language, so even though we don't actually see these horsemen riding literally, can we not agree that they are indeed riding?

Can we see evidence of the white horse riding?

According to the Bible, he is the first rider - the one who went forth, first - to be followed after, by the riders of the red, pale and black horse.
So that alone is evidence that the rider of the white horse has been given a crown, and a bow, and he is riding toward his goal of conquest.

Christians believe that this rider represent Jesus as crowned king of God's kingdom, riding forth to complete his conquest as mentioned in Daniel 2:44, 45
This evidence shows that Christ has begun ruling, as promised, and agrees with the signs he told his followers to look for. Matthew 24

The rider of the red horse, is given a large sword, with which to take away peace from the earth. Seems evident to Christians, that this has occured since 1914, starting with the great war.

Since WWI - the great war, involving the whole world, there has been no peace. The world is again on the brink of another major war.
What can we expect from that?
Already there is talk of rising prices on primary necessities.
Which means move food shortages, and diseases and death.
The riders of the pale horse, and the black horse fittingly describe these world events.

The pandemic, which we are still facing, was/is like a plague of death, from pestilence.

This to me is like clear evidence, of fulfillment of one of the end-time prophecies.
Who does not agree, and why not?

The 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse represent the 4 causes of the final war on Earth, World War 3. This war is fought by nations to determine which nation is strongest claiming dominance to "rule" the world. But it is not only which nation is strongest, but which religion is strongest as nations will align to fight for their dominant religion. All 4 stand before the throne that represents world rule as this will be a world war but only 3 call out "holy". Those are the 3 religions in Jerusalem today that each claim it as holy land granted only to them by God which are Jews, Muslims and Christians. The 4th Horseman on the black horse does not believe in the religions of Abraham and is not going to fight over religion in WW3. That nation wants to rule world economy and make all currency based on their measure of worth.
China, also called the red dragon, because of their large population fears future famine of food and resources so demands to control all fishing rights and mineral/oil/gas rights in the South China Sea, the "Sea Beast" arena of World War 3. So the final war will be nuclear and will be fought as was WW2 in 2 different theaters over different reasons. The Beast is war over religion and the Sea Beast is war over control of the South China Sea. A third of the sea becomes blood because a third of the area becomes a battlefield.
Heads represent nations with grievances that will enter war for resolution and Horns are nations that have treaties to fight for a Head nation. For example, China is a Head. Japan is a Head. The USA is a Horn.

 

[Triumph]

Many more objective scholars suggest Revelations had to do with the current times of the writers of the book, not the future. I think is a more sound meaning of the book than what some Christians suggest, like this thread.

Most people that call themselves Christians are actually, "spiritual Jews" not disciples of Jesus that taught against becoming spiritually circumcised into the Jewish human sacrifice religion that claim to be the only chosen by God race/bloodline on Earth. I guess as a spiritual Jew people do not realize they must support that red cow sacrifice the Jews plan after building a new building to house their beliefs so they can win that final war on Earth to be the chosen race of God. Jews claim God will only live in that temple so to ever visit the God they worship it has to be there. Caveat though is Jews do not consider Christians as Jews so no Christian will be allowed into the room where they claim their God will sit. So if people are thinking they are going to chat with the Jewish God, it's not going to happen as Christians will not be allowed in that secret chamber.

 

[F1fan]

Most people that call themselves Christians are actually, "spiritual Jews" not disciples of Jesus that taught against becoming spiritually circumcised into the Jewish human sacrifice religion that claim to be the only chosen by God race/bloodline on Earth.

So you are bringing up how confused Christians are as a huge and diverse set of sects that disagree with each other. And frankly it points to how confusing the Bible is, and just how inconsistent interpretations are. It's more reason for observers to not trust what any Christian says, especially about the future.

I guess as a spiritual Jew people do not realize they must support that red cow sacrifice the Jews plan after building a new building to house their beliefs so they can win that final war on Earth to be the chosen race of God. Jews claim God will only live in that temple so to ever visit the God they worship it has to be there. Caveat though is Jews do not consider Christians as Jews so no Christian will be allowed into the room where they claim their God will sit. So if people are thinking they are going to chat with the Jewish God, it's not going to happen as Christians will not be allowed in that secret chamber.

Well Christians did steal a lot of Jewish ideas and change them dramatically, so there's not much agreement that Jews can have with Christians. The Jewish people are a unique lineage through history, and often vilified for just being part of that lineage, not for policies or acts that inject themselves into the lives of others.

 

[F1fan]

The 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse represent the 4 causes of the final war on Earth, World War 3. This war is fought by nations to determine which nation is strongest claiming dominance to "rule" the world. But it is not only which nation is strongest, but which religion is strongest as nations will align to fight for their dominant religion. All 4 stand before the throne that represents world rule as this will be a world war but only 3 call out "holy". Those are the 3 religions in Jerusalem today that each claim it as holy land granted only to them by God which are Jews, Muslims and Christians. The 4th Horseman on the black horse does not believe in the religions of Abraham and is not going to fight over religion in WW3. That nation wants to rule world economy and make all currency based on their measure of worth.
China, also called the red dragon, because of their large population fears future famine of food and resources so demands to control all fishing rights and mineral/oil/gas rights in the South China Sea, the "Sea Beast" arena of World War 3. So the final war will be nuclear and will be fought as was WW2 in 2 different theaters over different reasons. The Beast is war over religion and the Sea Beast is war over control of the South China Sea. A third of the sea becomes blood because a third of the area becomes a battlefield.
Heads represent nations with grievances that will enter war for resolution and Horns are nations that have treaties to fight for a Head nation. For example, China is a Head. Japan is a Head. The USA is a Horn.

End Time Christians don't want peace on Earth. They want their bad interpretation of Revelations to be true, and the cost to civilization is worth it to them. And that makes them passive terrorists to my mind. They are passive because they have no real power to start a war and cause the end of all life on the planet, but if they did, would they abandon all morality for the sake of their ideological egos? That would be an interesting discussion: can we trust End Time Christians to be moral if they had the option to kill us all.

 

[Triumph]

Of course it is.
You have to agree, since to say why not, is to come up empty.
Wars since 1914 has killed three times more than all previous wars combined, and since 1914, wars have been on an international scale. Uncontested fact.
So I do understand your inability to refute it.

There will be war and rumors of war, but the final war is thermonuclear. The symbolism in prophecy includes personification as Israel is a fig tree and a viper is a person that will kill people over not believing in their religion.
Lucifer is also a personification of the first thermonuclear missile launched that starts the war over religion in WW3. It looks like a star rising even in daylight. The Sun is created by nuclear fusion as is a thermonuclear missile that is born/created of nuclear fusion technology. Lucifer is launched in an attempt for a nation to prevail over another and it lands in total destruction, triggering WW3.

 

[F1fan]

There will be war and rumors of war, but the final war is thermonuclear. The symbolism in prophecy includes personification as Israel is a fig tree and a viper is a person that will kill people over not believing in their religion.
Lucifer is also a personification of the first thermonuclear missile launched that starts the war over religion in WW3. It looks like a star rising even in daylight. The Sun is created by nuclear fusion as is a thermonuclear missile that is born/created of nuclear fusion technology. Lucifer is launched in an attempt for a nation to prevail over another and it lands in total destruction, triggering WW3.

Are you clairvoyant, a prophet, just an ambitious guesser, eager for a toxic Christian theology, or just a downer?

We heard all this nonsense back in the 70's from Evangelical Hal Lindsey. All his expectations failed too. He even wrote a follow up book after his predictions failed, and made new predications that also failed. You follow a trend in Christianity that fails consistently. Didn't you do research into these failed predictions before you formed these views you have? If so, what makes you special?

 

[Triumph]

End Time Christians don't want peace on Earth. They want their bad interpretation of Revelations to be true, and the cost to civilization is worth it to them. And that makes them passive terrorists to my mind. They are passive because they have no real power to start a war and cause the end of all life on the planet, but if they did, would they abandon all morality for the sake of their ideological egos? That would be an interesting discussion: can we trust End Time Christians to be moral if they had the option to kill us all.

You know If they are being killed for being a Christian in a world war, they will fight to prevent it to save their own life and the lives of their friends and family. Very few people that call themselves Christians actually are one though. Some believe Jesus as their military Christ, will be doing all the killing, and making the choices so they will have no part in it and they won't be harmed. Some believe they will be raptured before the war starts and that will not happen either.
Truth is when a nuclear missile strikes, people of all ages, race and beliefs will die and 7 nuclear empowered nations will fight. It is not going to be a war where only a couple of nuclear bombs are dropped. Fear will cause nations to continue to use nukes in an attempt to cause the war to stop in hopes they will prevail.