The free will of man

[savagewind]

I will be led by God to find and have what I need. Accentuates free will

OR

God will provide what I need to win and will have removed what it is that will cause me not to win. Removes free will

Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us

I added that scripture because it also describes life as a race, something to win.

 

[savagewind]

And what about your desires, do you restrict those to God's law?

Yes,

Desire, I have discovered, is short lived. Sometimes I refuse it but sometimes I don't. If I don't refuse it to endure it I feel like I spent too much. So I don't do it often.

 

[Onkara]

Honestly I think it is a question of perspective rather than one which is more correct over another. If we still consider ourselves to be individuals with a free will then that is how we will remain.

It is also possible to see everything as God and ultimately God's will. With this stance there is nothing which isn't God or His will and hence my will is His will.

The issue is when we introduce a teaching or law which goes against our own will, but we act against that law and then blame it on God that we acted. The reason being is that we are justifying our sins.

If there is no law, then there is no sins, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Onkara]

Yes,

Desire, I have discovered, is short lived. Sometimes I refuse it but sometimes I don't. If I don't refuse it to endure it I feel like I spent too much. So I don't do it often.

I can relate to that. I mention this because our will tends to act on desire in my view.

 

[crossfire]

Galatians 5:16-18

16 I say then, walk by the Spirit and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit desires what is against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you don’t do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.​

It goes on to say that there laws against harmful fleshly desires, but there are no laws against spiritual fruits: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 gentleness, self-control. (Gal 5:22-23) Notice how self-control is considered to be a fruit of the spirit? Is that not a necessary component for true free-will? (You are not enslaved by fleshly programming anymore.)

 

[Onkara]

...
Notice how self-control is considered to be a fruit of the spirit? Is that not a necessary component for true free-will? (You are not enslaved by fleshly programming anymore.)

This is useful, thanks, Crossfire
My understanding is that the spirit must enter a Christian for it to be active in the way described, correct?

 

[savagewind]

Honestly I think it is a question of perspective rather than one which is more correct over another. If we still consider ourselves to be individuals with a free will then that is how we will remain.

It is also possible to see everything as God and ultimately God's will. With this stance there is nothing which isn't God or His will and hence my will is His will.

The issue is when we introduce a teaching or law which goes against our own will, but we act against that law and then blame it on God that we acted. The reason being is that we are justifying our sins.

If there is no law, then there is no sins, wouldn't you agree?

That is a dangerous thought in my opinion. I read that as 'if we believe it, it's true'.

If there is no law there is no knowledge of sin. Law is not responsible for sin. Choice is.

 

[Onkara]

That is a dangerous thought in my opinion. I read that as 'if we believe it, it's true'.

If there is no law there is no knowledge of sin. Law is not responsible for sin. Choice is.

Why do you feel it is dangerous if what we believe becomes true?

Choices have no inherent quality unless there is a law or teaching which illustrates that one choice is better than another. My point is that choices are just choices, but if we add a law then we have Good choices over Bad choices (or sin).

 

[savagewind]

Romans 4:15

because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression

Transgression: a transgression, overstepping, deviation

It means the law acts as a line to cross or not. Sin (transgression) does not cease without law. It means you can't break the law if there isn't law to break.

 

[Onkara]

I don't see how a transgression can exist without some kind of law. By law I mean the Bible, because I think the bible teaches God's law (correct me if you don't agree about that otherwise we could go around in circles )

 

[savagewind]

Why do you feel it is dangerous if what we believe becomes true?

I didn't say that. I said just believing it makes it true is dangerous. I believe The Lord God Almighty is The One Who makes things true. People can't make things true. I didn't say 'becomes', you said that. Yes, it is the goal of humanity, I think, to make true what is true. It's not dangerous. Some things we believe are not true. Those things that ARE NOT TRUE can become very dangerous when they are accepted as true.

 

[savagewind]

I don't see how a transgression can exist without some kind of law. By law I mean the Bible, because I think the bible teaches God's law (correct me if you don't agree about that otherwise we could go around in circles )

I looked up Dharma. If you believe that what I quoted here, I'm more Dharma than you.

 

[Onkara]

I didn't say that. I said just believing it makes it true is dangerous. I believe The Lord God Almighty is The One Who makes things true. People can't make things true. I didn't say 'becomes', you said that. Yes, it is the goal of humanity, I think, to make true what is true. It's not dangerous. Some things we believe are not true. Those things that ARE NOT TRUE can become very dangerous when they are accepted as true.

I understand, thank you.

I looked up Dharma. If you believe that what I quoted here, I'm more Dharma than you.

Yes, you may well be. I am not here to judge anyone, just trying to learn through sharing questions and answers.

 

[savagewind]

Thank you for sharing. You are special for that!

Matthew 25:40,46 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'...the righteous to eternal life."

 

[crossfire]

This is useful, thanks, Crossfire
My understanding is that the spirit must enter a Christian for it to be active in the way described, correct?

My understanding is that it is always there. You just have to tune into it. Being more subtle than fleshly desires, it is often obscured. (See 1 Corinthians 12 & 13) (Makyo and Kensho)

 

[Onkara]

Thank you for sharing. You are special for that!

Matthew 25:40,46 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'...the righteous to eternal life."

What do you mean with the verse, Savagewind?

 

[savagewind]

My understanding is that it is always there. You just have to tune into it. Being more subtle than fleshly desires, it is often obscured. (See 1 Corinthians 12 & 13) (Makyo and Kensho)

I agree. It is present in everyone but it has to be acknowledged and nurtured.
Matthew 18:10 "See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven."

 

[savagewind]

What do you mean with the verse, Savagewind?

I am a least one. You talk to me! You are blessed for that and on your way to God's Kingdom.

It is another thread but here I shall say that the arrival of the King and the resulting blessing or cursing is not the last scene of Man. It is more like the first scene. It saying "when the son of man arrives in his glory", well I see Joshua's glory so it is happening, not will happen.

 

[crossfire]

You might also like the Book of James, Onkara.

 

[Onkara]

I agree. It is present in everyone but it has to be acknowledged and nurtured.
Matthew 18:10 "See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven."

You might also like the Book of James, Onkara.

Thanks Savagewind and Crossfire,
I have only just started to read the New Testament, so that is helpful.