The Frubal Free Market Failure and the Problems inherent in a socialised Frubal economy

[Smoke]

I WOULD be very ****** off though,
if all of my COMMENTS suddenly disappeared!

Especially my rare (at least for me) and valuable (at least to me) Jayhawker Soule comments. And there are comments from many others who don't post anymore, and from Retrorich of happy memory. Makes me think maybe I should copy and save them all before anybody gets any ideas.

 

[monta]

The old system used to have some merit, I think, in that the opinions those like Sunstone and GreenGaia who had established themselves as members and as people who had made positive contributions had greater "frubal power." But in the long term it had an inflationary quality that grew ridiculous, where "welcome to RF" frubals earned a new member more frubals than, say, Sunstone had after his first year here. And then the whole "frubal orgy" game just made the whole thing completely meaningless, and frubals didn't indicate anything at all about the quality of anybody's contributions to RF. So I like the new system much better. I'm glad they changed it before it got to the point where the software had to accommodate trillions and quadrillions of frubals that had no meaning and didn't indicate anything at all about positive contributions to the forums.

However I do think it's unfair to the new people that many of us are sitting on great piles of frubals that were earned far more easily than they will ever earn them. I wish there could be found a simple way to apply the new rule retroactively, so that we each have one frubal for each frubal occasion. I guess that would be complicated, though.

Personally, I don't care about the numbers. I enjoy getting frubals, but it's the fact that somebody thinks I made a good contribution -- and quite often it's who thinks so -- that's gratifying to me. So I can get along fine with just about any method of calculation, and the change doesn't really affect me. But I do think it was a good change.

I don't understand why one system is being called "socialist" and the other "free market," though. Unless it's because in politics, people who claim to support "free markets" actually tend to favor subsidies for the wealthy.

Mostly I agree, although by virtue of simply being on the site the longest and having a couple of birthdays or some other milestone, or some comedy thread, a handful of people had a much larger frubal count than others and the ability to give comparatively massive amounts of frubals to each other or other members, this created a hierarchy, whereby the rich had greater power than the poor, (if you held frubals in esteem, but then many people did)

There were also incidents where people were chided for their low frubal count in discussions, told they were not to be taken seriously because they had so few frubals.

I abused the frubal system on a number of occasions, but in absolute truth, the frubals mean nothing to me, but a thorn that didn't sit comfortably under my skin, I have to admit that I feel a little disappointed by the revelation that people wanted the empty validation they provided.

I think the frubal orgy was the best thing to happen to the frubal system, because it exposed it for the farce it was. Rev. Rick made a brilliant move, but the new system simply doesn't go far enough in my opinion, like it or not if you stick a number on everyone and some people have higher numbers than the others it is proven that those with higher numbers will think they are superior, it is an unfortunate aspect of human nature.

 

[monta]

Especially my rare (at least for me) and valuable (at least to me) Jayhawker Soule comments. And there are comments from many others who don't post anymore, and from Retrorich of happy memory. Makes me think maybe I should copy and save them all before anybody gets any ideas.

I do value the external validation of the comments, I have to admit, I would never advocate the removal of the comments.


Jayhawker Soule is a perfect example frubal count 13302039 , for how long has he been restricted btw, anyone know?

 

[croak]

I think this applies (but I'm not sure):

Rebuild User Reputation

This will rebuild your user reputation scores based on the information in the database and the new reputation base specified here.

Run this if you want to remove any custom reputations and specify a new reputation base.

vBulletin Manual - Update Counters

Of course, the forum should be backed up before this is attempted, as I'm sure the administrators have. A backup would save everything as it was before the change, so if the forum was somehow broken, it would be back up as it was in no time.

Then again, some people might really like their absurdly high numbers.

 

[Falvlun]

I personally like the new system, as the old was rather inflationary.

However, the numbers need to be reasonably reset so that they actually reflect the new system; otherwise, new members will only have a couple hundred, while older members have hundreds of thousands (or more!)

In another forum I used to frequent, certain sections earned you more "frubals" (they were just points) than others: If you posted in intellectual debates (so any religious, political, discussion) threads, you got two points. If it was in a "fun" thread section, (like social games, jokes, poetry, food, etc) you only got one point, or none, depending on the value placed upon that section.

I liked that method since legitimate debate earned more points than "Dude, I love you so much, now frubal me in return!"

 

[Reverend Rick]

I look back at the frubal inflation issue as a classic example of the revenge of the nerds. Years ago, there where like minded clicks on RF who where the frubal darlings who toasted each other with every million frubals they accumulated.

They held all the popular opinions and where adorned with frubal rewards. As their rewards got greater, this original frubal click had larger frubal amounts they could give while patting each other on the back for holding such popular opinions on politics and religion.

People outside the click who held less popular opinions could display their obvious lower frubal numbers for all to see what "losers" they where.

The thing is, a frubal is worth zero. It cannot buy anything. The private comment was the nice part of frubals. It made me feel good when I left frubals and received them.

My original problem with frubals was, why would a new members opinion be worth any less than a seasoned long time member? There was a time when I could leave a member a million frubals with one click. I remember when it took me over a year to receive my first million frubals after thousands of posts.

If you believe that one members opinion is worth more than an others, cry for the old frubal ways. I like the system now because I have never ran out of frubals when I want to let a person know when they make an excellent post.

The staff needs to address the signature issue, (and we are working on it), but other than that, the way things are now is much better IMHO.

Many people have different opinions of frubals, I just wanted to make the point that frubals are basically silly and have no real value. Like others have said, it is the comments that hold all the value here at RF.

So the last basic issue is, if frubals are worthless, why are people concerned with how many some of us have? The frubal orgy was just for fun and to show this forum just how silly frubals really where. It is a good thing something was done about this, because I would have billions of frubals by now. The thing is, so would brand new members because of increasing frubal power.

I have a feeling our dollar will be worth even less than the frubal some day. We spend them by the trillions now.

 

[Smoke]

Mostly I agree, although by virtue of simply being on the site the longest and having a couple of birthdays or some other milestone, or some comedy thread, a handful of people had a much larger frubal count than others and the ability to give comparatively massive amounts of frubals to each other or other members, this created a hierarchy, whereby the rich had greater power than the poor, (if you held frubals in esteem, but then many people did)

When RF was younger, the system didn't seem so ridiculous. But it reached a point where it was. People used to start threads like "So-and-so has 20,000 frubals!" And then you got to the point where people had 400,000 frubals their first day. So the frubal count thing was devalued for me even before the frubal orgy.

However I wouldn't have anything against a more restrained system of frubal inflation. Say, you're allowed to award up to ten frubals a day, and you can award maybe two or five more for every thousand frubal occasions you have, but still only one at a time and one per post.

 

[Smoke]

Of course, the forum should be backed up before this is attempted, as I'm sure the administrators have. A backup would save everything as it was before the change, so if the forum was somehow broken, it would be back up as it was in no time.

I don't know ...

Was it here or on another forum where we used to have coins, and we all lost our coins during a update? I can't remember where it was. But I think we all banked our coins to make sure they were safe, and then it was the ones in the bank that were lost. Or something like that. It was annoying at the time, but obviously not too annoying, since I can't remember any details.

 

[monta]

I look back at the frubal inflation issue as a classic example of the revenge of the nerds. Years ago, there where like minded clicks on RF who where the frubal darlings who toasted each other with every million frubals they accumulated.

They held all the popular opinions and where adorned with frubal rewards. As their rewards got greater, this original frubal click had larger frubal amounts they could give while patting each other on the back for holding such popular opinions on politics and religion.

People outside the click who held less popular opinions could display their obvious lower frubal numbers for all to see what "losers" they where.

The thing is, a frubal is worth zero. It cannot buy anything. The private comment was the nice part of frubals. It made me feel good when I left frubals and received them.

My original problem with frubals was, why would a new members opinion be worth any less than a seasoned long time member? There was a time when I could leave a member a million frubals with one click. I remember when it took me over a year to receive my first million frubals after thousands of posts.

If you believe that one members opinion is worth more than an others, cry for the old frubal ways. I like the system now because I have never ran out of frubals when I want to let a person know when they make an excellent post.

The staff needs to address the signature issue, (and we are working on it), but other than that, the way things are now is much better IMHO.

Many people have different opinions of frubals, I just wanted to make the point that frubals are basically silly and have no real value. Like others have said, it is the comments that hold all the value here at RF.

So the last basic issue is, if frubals are worthless, why are people concerned with how many some of us have? The frubal orgy was just for fun and to show this forum just how silly frubals really where. It is a good thing something was done about this, because I would have billions of frubals by now. The thing is, so would brand new members because of increasing frubal power.

I have a feeling our dollar will be worth even less than the frubal some day. We spend them by the trillions now.

Again I mostly agree with you. I am relieved someone acknowledges that there was an elitist good old boys club of back slapping frubal millionaires of long standing who were automatically given deference because of a their high frubal count, whether they know it or not.

If they were truly worthless in peoples minds then there wouldn't have been hurt feelings when the new batch of frubal sluts (you know who you are :flirt hit the forum.

If the comments are the thing there is no need to have any arbitrary value attached to them, and the other upside is you would very seldom see the word frubal on the forums.

 

[Smoke]

If the comments are the thing there is no need to have any arbitrary value attached to them, and the other upside is you would very seldom see the word frubal on the forums.

I agree. I also like that they link back to the post, so you just exactly what it was that somebody was commenting on. Although a lot of my frubals are for posts that got deleted.

 

[Meow Mix]

It's all about the numbers......my self-esteem depends upon them. But now I stagnate in a room temperature rating,
unable to improve by more than a point or so every few months....on the rare occasion that someone takes pity.

Read my frubal comment. Do it.

 

[croak]

I don't know ...

Was it here or on another forum where we used to have coins, and we all lost our coins during a update? I can't remember where it was. But I think we all banked our coins to make sure they were safe, and then it was the ones in the bank that were lost. Or something like that. It was annoying at the time, but obviously not too annoying, since I can't remember any details.

I don't know when they were lost, but yes, there were coins, and there was a store. I used to keep spending them to change my nicknames on here.

When frubals were introduced: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-discussion/3519-frubals.html

It's been quite a while. Has a little explanation on coins, too. To quote that thread:

I agree with you linwood - and I think that the more people understand the frubals, the more they are gonna catch on. Good idea, waiting to catch fire. Once I had 'em explained to me, I been handing em out like candy. I actually look for good posts, or good points to award frubals for. I look especially hard to award frubals to people that are on the opposite side of the argument from me. It's pretty easy to award them to people that hold your values and morals, but it's a trick to find things to like in the posts of others.

TVOR

Talk about catching fire....

 

[dust1n]

Again I mostly agree with you. I am relieved someone acknowledges that there was an elitist good old boys club of back slapping frubal millionaires of long standing who were automatically given deference because of a their high frubal count, whether they know it or not.

I don't know what you could possibly be referring to.

 

[VenatorAnima]

I voted neither positively nor negatively because I wasn't here before the changes so I don't what it was like. LOL

 

[monta]

I voted neither positively nor negatively because I wasn't here before the changes so I don't what it was like. LOL

Why would you vote if you don't have the facts

Do you know, you won't have enough frubals for a signature for a long time (unless the system changes) . If you don't want a signature your vote was accidentally correct.

 

[blackout]

I look back at the frubal inflation issue as a classic example of the revenge of the nerds. Years ago, there where like minded clicks on RF who where the frubal darlings who toasted each other with every million frubals they accumulated.

They held all the popular opinions and where adorned with frubal rewards. As their rewards got greater, this original frubal click had larger frubal amounts they could give while patting each other on the back for holding such popular opinions on politics and religion.

People outside the click who held less popular opinions could display their obvious lower frubal numbers for all to see what "losers" they where.

The thing is, a frubal is worth zero. It cannot buy anything. The private comment was the nice part of frubals. It made me feel good when I left frubals and received them.

My original problem with frubals was, why would a new members opinion be worth any less than a seasoned long time member? There was a time when I could leave a member a million frubals with one click. I remember when it took me over a year to receive my first million frubals after thousands of posts.

If you believe that one members opinion is worth more than an others, cry for the old frubal ways. I like the system now because I have never ran out of frubals when I want to let a person know when they make an excellent post.

The staff needs to address the signature issue, (and we are working on it), but other than that, the way things are now is much better IMHO.

Many people have different opinions of frubals, I just wanted to make the point that frubals are basically silly and have no real value. Like others have said, it is the comments that hold all the value here at RF.

So the last basic issue is, if frubals are worthless, why are people concerned with how many some of us have? The frubal orgy was just for fun and to show this forum just how silly frubals really where. It is a good thing something was done about this, because I would have billions of frubals by now. The thing is, so would brand new members because of increasing frubal power.

I have a feeling our dollar will be worth even less than the frubal some day. We spend them by the trillions now.

I don't know Rick.
That's not what I saw and experienced.

I saw posters having fun with each other,
making each other laugh,
I saw posters posting things,
ideas of value,
or posting things of a creative nature,
that some other posters appreciated.

In many cases it's the same people who "get" each other.
As well, some people are more universally endearing
than others. ( as Mystic is over me, for example)
And that's FINE.

I NEVER saw anyone's frubal count as validation
of their worth or the worth of their ideas.
In fact quite a few of my very FAVORITE regular posters
accumulated frubals at a slower pace
than other regulars,
and their frubal count
did not reflect the level of worth
they held for me me at all.
They tend to be more esoteric in their thought
than most,
and kinda like mySelf
are very often not REALLY understood.
I made it a POINT to frubal them,
not just for the "sake of the frubals"
but to let them know that the profunditiy of their words
and their efforts of expression
were appreciated and understood,
at least by a few of us.

More of my frubals,
and I suspect many of theirs
came from silly quip threads
like
"Say something Scandalous about the person above you"
because
those threads were FUNNY.
And laughter is a thing of value.

Some people put their "clever" out there,
some people put their "sexy" out there,
some people know how to 'insult' with style...
(which I don't do as well) ;p
but I appreciate it all,
and it's all fun. It's something real.


I don't really care WHAT the current system is now,
but I wanted to comment on your post,
because we obviously have/had
a very different perception
of what was going on.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not here for the furballs. For me, it has always been about the comments that come with them.

There are comments?

I voted neither positively nor negatively because I wasn't here before the changes so I don't what it was like. LOL

I see that you're an American. Facts are superfluous. Vote for the smooth talking candidate with the pretty hair.

 

[blackout]

There are comments?

Yes. And some of them are even nice ones.

 

[blackout]

I see that you're an American. Facts are superfluous. Vote for the smooth talking candidate with the pretty hair.

My hair is purple.

Everyone should vote for Purple.

 

[blackout]

My hair is purple.

Everyone should vote for Purple.

In a perfect world.....