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The future of Islam and Haqqislam.

Lorgar-Aurelian

Active Member
I was taking a break from the vast amount of religious and historical reading I do to check out some of the lore behind one of my favorite tabletop games. Corvus Belli's infinity. In infinity there is a faction made up mostly of Muslims called Haqq Islam, for some reason they translate this as new islam even though "Haqq" means truth or true. Anyway In this science fiction world Islam has more or less become super humanist and is supposed to recreate the "golden age of Islam." Of course anyone who knows about the history of Islam in depth will know that the Golden age of Islam never happened.

Anyway I was just wondering what everyone thought of the possibility of this being Islam's future? I personally think it sounds like ridiculous SJW propaganda but that is just me. If you don't think this is even remotely possible what do you think Islam's future holds?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I was taking a break from the vast amount of religious and historical reading I do to check out some of the lore behind one of my favorite tabletop games. Corvus Belli's infinity. In infinity there is a faction made up mostly of Muslims called Haqq Islam, for some reason they translate this as new islam even though "Haqq" means truth or true. Anyway In this science fiction world Islam has more or less become super humanist and is supposed to recreate the "golden age of Islam." Of course anyone who knows about the history of Islam in depth will know that the Golden age of Islam never happened.

Anyway I was just wondering what everyone thought of the possibility of this being Islam's future? I personally think it sounds like ridiculous SJW propaganda but that is just me.
I'd say there is little to no chance of this happening due to the inherent phobia about innovation in Islam.

If you don't think this is even remotely possible what do you think Islam's future holds?
Collapse?
 

Lorgar-Aurelian

Active Member
I'd say there is little to no chance of this happening due to the inherent phobia about innovation in Islam.

Collapse?
I tend to lean towards the idea that they will adapt as time goes on. Maybe have a reformation like Christianity, just more than likely way more violent.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Muslims were cleaning their behinds long before, say 1100 years before Europeans. Something to consider. Also scientifically they led Europe for centuries.
 

Terese

Mangalam Pundarikakshah
Staff member
Premium Member
Muslims were cleaning their behinds long before, say 1100 years before Europeans. Something to consider. Also scientifically they led Europe for centuries.
True, but times have changed.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Muslims were cleaning their behinds long before, say 1100 years before Europeans. Something to consider. Also scientifically they led Europe for centuries.

Note your use of the past tense here: "were", "before", "led". All these things happened in the past. If they were happening now you'd be referencing them now.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Note your use of the past tense here: "were", "before", "led". All these things happened in the past. If they were happening now you'd be referencing them now.

As far as I know Muslims are still cleaning their behinds, and a lot more thoroughly than Westerners!! They also invented the toothbrush.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
As far as I know Muslims are still cleaning their behinds, and a lot more thoroughly than Westerners!! They also invented the toothbrush.

Yeah but I mean the argument 'they did it first' really doesn't have any force in what's happening now. All the arguments of being the first arse-wipers don't address Islam's flaws nor does it address the fact that right now Islam is more regressive than not.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Yeah but I mean the argument 'they did it first' really doesn't have any force in what's happening now. All the arguments of being the first arse-wipers don't address Islam's flaws nor does it address the fact that right now Islam is more regressive than not.

The only thing I see here that is regressive are your comments, and your continued rude, uninformed attacks on Muslims.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
The only thing I see here that is regressive are your comments, and your continued rude, uninformed attacks on Muslims.

If you took off your blinkers you'd see I & my faith are subject to misrepresentation, stereotyping & bigotry by some Muslims on this board (pagans worship statues, they believe statues are their gods, it's acceptable for Muslims to vandalise the sacred objects of other faiths etc). If my comments are rude & uninformed then I'm merely reciprocating and after all why shouldn't I? Why should I show tolerance or respect for a belief system that refuses to show me or mine any? We even have a thread dedicated to Muslim attacks on Hindu temples & shrines in India. It's more than a bit curious (but not that surprising) that you've never bothered to make any posts in it condemning these acts of Muslim intolerance.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
for some reason they translate this as new islam even though "Haqq" means truth or true.

Interesting. The underlying premise would probably then be that Islaam was "originally" pure and valid but was not well maintained at some point.

That is not an unusual association, either. I understand that "Shin" in Japanese has a similar boundary meaning that may be translated as either "new" or "true". It features into at least one religion's name, too: Jodo Shinshu is supposed to be the "true/new" Jodo Shu.

Of course, much of Islaamic doctrine deals with a near-phobic worry that God has at least twice offered a "true" revelation to humans and they blew it in keeping that revelation "pure and true". Islaam's most meaningful differential is supposed to be that this time they are blessed with a reassurance of eternal incorruptibility of the revelation itself (the Qur'an).

In that respect, the very idea of a new/true/pure Islaam is inherently problematic, as well as unavoidable and necessary. One more built-in conflict factoring into the makeup of Islaam.

Anyway In this science fiction world Islam has more or less become super humanist and is supposed to recreate the "golden age of Islam." Of course anyone who knows about the history of Islam in depth will know that the Golden age of Islam never happened.
And in some respects that is its strength. The absence of concrete history to back up Islaam's ambitious claims motivates adherents to resign to the need to "keep true" despite the "unfair" opposition of the "unfaithful". Listening to historical facts would be consorting with the kuffar.

Then again, there is also the ever-reliable refuge of claiming that Islaam is indeed perfect, but the human element just keeps failing to be up to its promise.

It is quite the perfect trap, actually. People are expected to sign into it from a very early age, before having any clear notion of what the doctrine says. Then they learn from gradual bits and pieces that they are supposed to feel guilty for their human frailty that sabotage's God's perfect plan even as they should profess their complete faith in that said plan is both necessary and somehow sure to materialize nevertheless.

It is nurturing insane guilt, made into an art form for the distraction and entertainment of the masses.

Anyway I was just wondering what everyone thought of the possibility of this being Islam's future? I personally think it sounds like ridiculous SJW propaganda but that is just me. If you don't think this is even remotely possible what do you think Islam's future holds?

Islaam's future can only take three directions, and it shows.

1) A sizeable contingent will simply keep suffering, until it realizes that it no longer wants to. That is what is happening with the growing number of ex-Muslims that unfortunately have learned to associate religion with Islaam and therefore often decide to have no association with religion at all.

2) Some Muslims will indeed rehabilitate Islaam or at least attempt to do so. We see that mainly in the Bahai Faith, which IMO is for all intents and purposes Islaam in detox mode.

More often than not such efforts will simply (and painfully) fail, though; Islaam is simply too clumsy and self-contradictory for anything else to happen. There will be a lot of sorrow before relief becomes possible.

3) For a very long while, most Muslims will simply keep indulging their familiar if wasteful ways. Islaam has very few merits, but it is nothing if not resilient. Much of it consists of choosing the protection of the doctrine's survival at the expense of its validity.
 

Lorgar-Aurelian

Active Member
Interesting. The underlying premise would probably then be that Islaam was "originally" pure and valid but was not well maintained at some point.

That is not an unusual association, either. I understand that "Shin" in Japanese has a similar boundary meaning that may be translated as either "new" or "true". It features into at least one religion's name, too: Jodo Shinshu is supposed to be the "true/new" Jodo Shu.

Of course, much of Islaamic doctrine deals with a near-phobic worry that God has at least twice offered a "true" revelation to humans and they blew it in keeping that revelation "pure and true". Islaam's most meaningful differential is supposed to be that this time they are blessed with a reassurance of eternal incorruptibility of the revelation itself (the Qur'an).

In that respect, the very idea of a new/true/pure Islaam is inherently problematic, as well as unavoidable and necessary. One more built-in conflict factoring into the makeup of Islaam.


And in some respects that is its strength. The absence of concrete history to back up Islaam's ambitious claims motivates adherents to resign to the need to "keep true" despite the "unfair" opposition of the "unfaithful". Listening to historical facts would be consorting with the kuffar.

Then again, there is also the ever-reliable refuge of claiming that Islaam is indeed perfect, but the human element just keeps failing to be up to its promise.

It is quite the perfect trap, actually. People are expected to sign into it from a very early age, before having any clear notion of what the doctrine says. Then they learn from gradual bits and pieces that they are supposed to feel guilty for their human frailty that sabotage's God's perfect plan even as they should profess their complete faith in that said plan is both necessary and somehow sure to materialize nevertheless.

It is nurturing insane guilt, made into an art form for the distraction and entertainment of the masses.



Islaam's future can only take three directions, and it shows.

1) A sizeable contingent will simply keep suffering, until it realizes that it no longer wants to. That is what is happening with the growing number of ex-Muslims that unfortunately have learned to associate religion with Islaam and therefore often decide to have no association with religion at all.

2) Some Muslims will indeed rehabilitate Islaam or at least attempt to do so. We see that mainly in the Bahai Faith, which IMO is for all intents and purposes Islaam in detox mode.

More often than not such efforts will simply (and painfully) fail, though; Islaam is simply too clumsy and self-contradictory for anything else to happen. There will be a lot of sorrow before relief becomes possible.

3) For a very long while, most Muslims will simply keep indulging their familiar if wasteful ways. Islaam has very few merits, but it is nothing if not resilient. Much of it consists of choosing the protection of the doctrine's survival at the expense of its validity.
I would be tempted to say Islam might even die out if we can get better education and better quality of life in the middle east. The only thing that really seems to help their numbers is how many of the less educated ones breed like rabbits.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I would be tempted to say Islam might even die out if we can get better education and better quality of life in the middle east. The only thing that really seems to help their numbers is how many of the less educated ones breed like rabbits.

Plus the fact that no small number of Muslim countries either imprisons you or cuts off your head for daring to leave the faith.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
I think that extreme beliefs and opinions tend to become less with education and the ability to consider ones own morality framework against a wide background of world cultures. Extreme beliefs are fed by violence and persecution, real or imagined. This is true everywhere.
 
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