The garden of Eden

[michel]

Regardless of the arguments about creationism,

a) do you think that there was a Gardens of eden on Earth?
b) Were Adam and Eve the frst man and woman there?
c) what was contained in the tree of knowledge?

 

[allanpopa]

I don't understand the sense of the question. Can one understand this question outside of the context of "the arguments about creationism"? I'm not so sure.

a) No. b) No. c) No.

The Garden of Eden, Adam, Eve and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil existed in the literary masterpiece of Genesis 2-3 not in any physical location, unless in Wirkungsgeschichte they may possibly have interpreted these texts in light of various Israelite gardens, or the myth might reflect the Hanging Gardens of Babylon? I'm throwing ideas about reception here, nothing concrete (reception tends to change all the time).

Allan

 

[michel]

sorry, I meant "forgetting creationsism and arguments against it" - to clarify; I personally don't know how to interpret the idea of God puting man and woman upon Earth one fine day......I believe that he produced the necessarry "tools" for Humans to evolve in due course. I do believe in the Garden of Eden, and Adam and Eve, but not necessarilly in strict adherence to Biblical time lines.

Hope that makes it clearer.........

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

First, from Sarna's The JPS Torah Commentary: Genesis:

The mystery of divine creativity is, of course, ultimately unknowable. The Genesis narrative does not seek to make intelligible what is beyond human ken. To draw upon human language to explain that which is outside any model of human experience is inevitably to confront the inescapable limitations of any attempt to give verbal expression to this subject. For this reason alone, the narrative in its external form must reflect the time and place of its composition. Thus it directs us to take account of the characteristic modes of literary expression current in ancient Israel. It forces us to realize that a literalistic approach to the text must inevitably confuse idiom with idea, symbol with reality. The result woud be to obscure the enduring meaning of the text.

There are intimations of Eden in the Sumerian myth of Dilmun as well as in the Gilgamesh Epic. Sarna, with reference to "the tree of knowledge of good and bad" writes: "In the present passage, then, it is best to understand 'knowledge of good and bad' as the capacity to make independent judgments concerning human welfare." It's a right-of-passage narrative ...

 

[Enoch07]

Regardless of the arguments about creationism,

a) do you think that there was a Gardens of eden on Earth?
b) Were Adam and Eve the frst man and woman there?
c) what was contained in the tree of knowledge?

a) Garden of Eden was a dimensional pocket here on earth, closed when God kicked Adam and Eve out, that is why we can never find it.
b) Adam and Eve were the first humans there.
c) The Tree of Knowledge was Satan.

 

[rusra02]

Regardless of the arguments about creationism,

a) do you think that there was a Gardens of eden on Earth?

Yes, of course. The Bible presents it as a historical reality, giving geographic clues as to its original location. (Genesis 2:10-14) Two geographic markers—the rivers Pishon and Gihon—can no longer be identified. So the garden’s exact location remains a mystery. The garden was doubtless obliterated in the global flood in Noah's day.

b) Were Adam and Eve the frst man and woman there?

Yes. Genesis 2:15 says "Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it, and to take care of it." The garden was a perfect model environment for Adam and later his wife to enjoy. God gave Adam the wonderful prospect of filling the earth and subduing it, expanding the paradise he was created in until the entire earth would be a global paradise. (Gen.1:28)

c) what was contained in the tree of knowledge?

The tree of knowledge was a literal tree. However, it represented God’s right as Ruler to decide what is good and bad for his human creation. To eat from the tree, therefore, was not just an act of theft—taking that which belonged to God—but also a presumptuous grasp at moral independence, or self-determination. Note that after lyingly telling Eve that if she and her husband ate the fruit, they ‘positively would not die,’ Satan asserted: “For God knows that in the very day of your eating from it your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad.”—Genesis 3:4, 5. That tree symbolized the all-wise Creator’s right to decide what is good and what is bad.

 

[tomspug]

a) I would like to think that the Garden of Eden was a real place, if only because I think that the story is so fantastic. If I'm not mistaken, archaeology backs up the idea that human civilization first started popping up in the Asia. But either way, it sums up the human condition rather well if the place existed or not.

b) If they were, I would like to know how they were able to live for hundreds of years (or at least Adam).

c) I don't think that knowledge IS sin. I think it simply contained knowledge that Adam and Eve did not need to have a happy and fulfilling eternity. What we call sin is the ambition for things that we do not need. In other words, when we choose something to replace God, to take the role of God into our own control, that is sin. I am still perplexed by the idea of knowledge of good and evil, but I find the idea fascinating.

 

[Falvlun]

c) what was contained in the tree of knowledge?

In regards to the first two questions: No.

However, I found your last question interesting: It seems to be a common misconception that it was the "tree of knowledge" when it is actually called the "tree of knowledge of good and evil". Thus, I believe that it was knowledge of the difference between good and evil that was contained in the tree. Certainly not all knowledge, or knowledge in general.

 

[Storm]

Regardless of the arguments about creationism,

a) do you think that there was a Gardens of eden on Earth?
b) Were Adam and Eve the frst man and woman there?
c) what was contained in the tree of knowledge?

No, on all counts. Genesis is a mystical text, not historical. To interpret it literally is not merely an error, but one that strips the text of its power and robs the adherent of Literalism of their spiritual birthright.

 

[Willamena]

I'll take a stab at it.

Regardless of the arguments about creationism,

a) do you think that there was a Gardens of eden on Earth?
b) Were Adam and Eve the frst man and woman there?
c) what was contained in the tree of knowledge?

a) "Is", not "was". Understood in metahpor, the Garden surrounds each of us. I experience the world ("Earth"), and in doing so, and not dwelling on myself apart from it, "I am" content to be the world so experienced --free of the movement of mind, dwelling in the moment of form.

b) "are", not "were". Adam is "me in the world"; Eve is "life", the flow from movement of mind to movement of body, and hence to movement of the world. She is created via my "me in the world"; and she is also "death", the ceasing of movement. Eve is "me" in impermanent form, hence symbolically the "bringer" of the impermanence of form.

c) "is", not "was". The tree has leaves that stretch up to the touch the sky, roots buried deep underground, and a trunk, a solid pillar that connects "above" to "below", the divine to the hidden. To me it is a statement about three modes of viewing reality: the imagined underworld which is the source of forms; the blossoming divine world that is form brought into being; and the middle ground of "know/now" that connects them experientially.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

No, on all counts. Genesis is a mystical text, not historical. To interpret it literally is not merely an error, but one that strips the text of its power and robs the adherent of Literalism of their spiritual birthright.

And to interpret it as mystical is a bit of eisegesis that amounts to a low-level rape of culture. There is, as far as I no, zero warrant to consider Genesis any more mystical than Gilgamesh.

 

[Storm]

Ah, Jay, you never disappoint. Can't make a decent argument? Don't let that stop you from personal attacks.

 

[Katzpur]

First, from Sarna's The JPS Torah Commentary: Genesis:There are intimations of Eden in the Sumerian myth of Dilmun as well as in the Gilgamesh Epic. Sarna, with reference to "the tree of knowledge of good and bad" writes: "In the present passage, then, it is best to understand 'knowledge of good and bad' as the capacity to make independent judgments concerning human welfare." It's a right-of-passage narrative ...

That is fascinating. It goes right along with LDS theology, too (in terms of what "knowledge of good and bad" means). I'll have to read it.

 

[ChristineES]

a) do you think that there was a Gardens of eden on Earth?
b) Were Adam and Eve the frst man and woman there?
c) what was contained in the tree of knowledge?

Since I don't take the creation story literally, then my answer would be different than someone who did. But at the same time, I can't really make a satisfactory answer. There had to be a point when a man would have first had sentience. When one is a small child, they are innocent and the world is a exciting place to explore. These small children grow up, they learn that the world is not such a wonderful place- that there is hunger, violence, and a lot of other unpleasant things.
Maybe the story of Adam and Eve was symbolic of man's (and woman's) loss of innocence to their learning the knowledge of the real world.

 

[Smoke]

a) Garden of Eden was a dimensional pocket here on earth, closed when God kicked Adam and Eve out, that is why we can never find it.

The Garden of Eden was in Liberty County, Florida. During the Flood, Noah and his family floated halfway around the world to Turkey, never to see the Sunshine State again.

 

[Free4all]

Regardless of the arguments about creationism,

a) do you think that there was a Gardens of eden on Earth?
b) Were Adam and Eve the frst man and woman there?
c) what was contained in the tree of knowledge?

"A garden eastward in Eden" Eden then, is the name of the country in which the garden was planted.
Gen 13:10 likens Eden to the "land of Egypt" and the area here is Sodom, south of the Dead Sea.
Amos 1:5 speaks of the "house of Eden" being located near Damascus.
Isaiah 51:3 likens Zion, at Jerusalem, to Eden.
2 Kings 19:12 locates it near Thelasar, which is the Gozan-Haran area from which Abram came after leaving Ur.
Eden then is identified as a triangular shaped piece of land with the top being Mt. Ararat and the 2 bottom corners running from the Nile, straight east to Ur.

The Tree of knowledge of good and evil -
1. The vine is a tree (Ezek. 15)
2. It is forbidden fruit in Numbers 6:1-6
3. It is a type of blood throughout the Bible. Matt 26:26-28

It's a Grape Vine.....

 

[Katzpur]

a) do you think that there was a Gardens of eden on Earth?

Yes.

b) Were Adam and Eve the frst man and woman there?

Yes, although I don't believe they were the first creatures God created, since I do believe in evolution.

c) what was contained in the tree of knowledge?

Knowledge of good and evil or, more specifically as Jay pointed out, "'knowledge of good and bad' as the capacity to make independent judgments concerning human welfare."

 

[Quagmire]

the great thing about mythology is you can make it mean whatever you want;

Here's what I see when I think about the Creation story;

Regardless of the arguments about creationism,

a) do you think that there was a Gardens of eden on Earth?

I think there still is, we've just lost our ability to see it (most of us, most of the time).

b) Were Adam and Eve the frst man and woman there?

I think they were pre-human.

c) what was contained in the tree of knowledge?

The tree is a metaphor for sex. The fruit of the tree was/is meat; two fleshy creatures get together, have sex, and make more flesh.

Our pre-human ancestors started to become human when they started incorporating meat into their diet.

---having to go out into the plains to scavenge caused our mancestors to start walking upright (had to keep an eye out for predators).
*and they saw that they were naked

---having to compete with other scavengers and look out for predators compelled them to come up with language and develop weapons, both of which necessitated the ability to think abstractly,...
*and their eyes were opened.

...i.e., to create.
*the man has become like one of us.

---the ability to think abstractly led humankind to define the world in his own terms, and to categorize things by comparison, hence the develpment of dualistic thinking; Big/Little, Now/Then, Good/Bad, Male/Female,
*having knowledge of Good and Evil.

---which led to the habit of viewing reality in terms of our definitions, rather than experiencing it directly.
*and they were driven out of the garden.

---until the human mind developed into a wirlwind of abstract thought--- measuring, re-measuring; categorizing, re-categorizing, planing/calculating/reminiscing/fantasizing;
usually about several things at once, tryng to hold or resolve conflicting information or contradictory assessments, ect., ect.,ect...until the mind became...
* a flaming sword turning every way at once, barring the path to the Tree of Life.

 

[sojourner]

First, from Sarna's The JPS Torah Commentary: Genesis:There are intimations of Eden in the Sumerian myth of Dilmun as well as in the Gilgamesh Epic. Sarna, with reference to "the tree of knowledge of good and bad" writes: "In the present passage, then, it is best to understand 'knowledge of good and bad' as the capacity to make independent judgments concerning human welfare." It's a right-of-passage narrative ...

I agree completely, although, I must admit that Dr. Juris Zarins, noted archaeologist, presents a convincing argument for the literal geographical position of the Garden.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I agree completely, although, I must admit that Dr. Juris Zarins, noted archaeologist, presents a convincing argument for the literal geographical position of the Garden.

Not that it matters, but what makes him a "noted" archaeologist and what is his "convincing argument"?