The genocide of the Christian population in the cradle of Christianity. How do we respond?

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Christian countries have killed more Muslims than Muslims killed Christians, so your point needs to be in context.

The context being that this is about Christians being persecuted now, not what Christian denominations have encouraged historically. Why do you always engage in this sort of unhelpful playground logic rather than admit Muslims are doing something bad?

Musin, westerners are murderous fanatics when it comes to Muslims too, how can you not see that. Christian soldiers seem quite likely to believe they can bomb and murder their way to heaven too.

Coming from someone who tends to get annoyed when people generalise about Muslims, this is a rather hypocritical thing to say.

 

[Glaurung]

Actually I'm referring to the fact that AFAIK the Catholic Church (as in the hierarchy) still holds the position that the Orthodox Church is in schism from the rest of Catholicism and that Orthodoxy holds the Catholic doctrines like the Immaculate Conception and papal supremacy as heresy.

Not denying that. I even alluded to it by mentioning that they're not in communion with Rome. The point was simply that Eastern Orthodoxy from a Catholic point of view isn't heretical.

Most Catholics may not view Orthodox Christians as not-true-Christians, but unfortunately most Catholics aren't the ones who make the doctrines.

The Church does not teach that the Orthodox are less than "true" Christians though. It even recognises the legitimacy of their orders.

I'll defer to your superior knowledge of Oriental Orthodoxy and Monophysitism as I know nothing of these.

Oriental Orthodoxy are the Churches that rejected Chalcedon, the Coptic Chruch being notable among them. Consequently they've been accused since then of a heresy known as Monophysitism, although most of those Churches reject that accusation.

I woke up today, in a world where the East-West Schism still hasn't been resolved and Christian denominations still exist.

No, but at least we're talking to each other these days. As much as I would be overjoyed to see the two Churches reunify, any movement to do so anytime soon would probably cause Eastern Orthodoxy to implode with infighting. I imagine the Russian Church would schism immediately. Barring direct intervention from God, the split is intractable right now.

 

[DennisTate]

Indeed ISIL and the other Wahhabi terrorists are targeting everybody.. And Especially the minorities..

They targeted the Shiites more than any other groups..
And also they concentrate on the minorities, whom they see as easy targets..

The international community need to unite in combating this savage challenge..

The Sunnis in particular need to do more, as these Wahhabi groups are claiming to be Sunnis and are trying to hijack Sunni Islam..

Unfortunately many Sunnis have been influenced by their sickening propaganda..

On the other hand, political analysts know well that some regimes have looked toward ISIL as a tool for political gains..and they have supported ISIL..
These regimes will certainly regret their actions as they see the results of their policies..and the World must face such policies..

What do you think of my theory that certain verses in the Koran should be
considered much more foundational than others?


Should these Sura's be foundation for all Koran?


Robert Mendelson:

Sura 29:46;

Dispute not…with people of the Book;

And say ye, "We believe in what hath been sent down to us [Qur’an]

and what hath been sent down to you. [Old & New Testaments]

Our God and your God is one,..."

Sura 2:136;

Say ye: "We believe in God,

and that which hath been sent down to us [Qur’an],

and that which hath been sent down to Abraham

and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes [Joshua],

and in that was given to Moses, and to Jesus,

and that which was given to the prophets, from their Lord.

No difference do we make between any of them."

There are many other instances in which Muhammad told his people that

the books of the Bible were confirmed. Again, one can argue theology, but

Muslims have a choice as to whether they wish to read the Qur’an for life or

for death. Making use of the Old Testament for a solution meant for the

members of both tribes currently in the Holy Land in no way places Muslims

in other lands under any constraints in their own land. The following passage

is quite specific regarding the value of the Old Testament—properly applied;

Sura 46:12;

But before the Koran was the Book of Moses, a rule and a mercy;

and this Book confirmeth it (the Pentateuch)—in the Arabic tongue—

that those who are guilty of that wrong may be warned,

and as glad tidings to the doers of good."

“glad tidings” to “doers of good”. Muslims are supposed to be “doers of good”.

Using Old Testament Law for the descendents of those it was originally given to

in the same land in which it was originally received doesn’t violate shariah in the

least. Muhammad recited a verse including a reference to David (from the Bible)


Sura 6:85;

And we gave him Isaac and Jacob, and guided both aright;

and We had guided…among the descendants of Abraham, David …”

David said something pertinent to the situation:

Psalm 19:9-11, David;

9…The ordinances of the LORD are sure and altogether righteous.

10 They are more precious than gold, than much pure gold;

they are sweeter than honey, than honey from the comb.

11 By them is your servant warned;

in keeping them there is great reward.”

And last, an Old Testament prophecy of particular interest for Muslims

throughout the Middle East from Isaiah…

Isaiah 19:25;

The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying,

"Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria [Iraq] my handiwork,

and Israel my inheritance."

There is value for all people to make use of this wonderful tool for peace.

Without it, well, the next two passages sum up what Muslims will do.

The first passage explains how the situation in the Holy Land is seen by

Muslims worldwide and how it effects their relations with America.


Sura 60:7-9;

7 God will, perhaps, establish good will between yourselves

and those of them whom ye take to be your enemies:

God is powerful: and God is gracious, merciful.

8 God doth not forbid you to deal with kindness and fairness

towards those who have not made war upon you on account of your religion,

or driven you forth from your homes:

for God loveth those who act with fairness.



9 Only doth God forbid you to make friends of those who,

on account of your religion,

have warred against you,

and have driven you forth from your homes,

and have aided [America & the West] those [Israel] whom drove you forth:

and whoever maketh friends of them are wrongdoers."

 

[Shia Islam]

What do you think of my theory that certain verses in the Koran should be
considered much more foundational than others?


Should these Sura's be foundation for all Koran?


Robert Mendelson:

You are almost suggesting that there are somehow contradicting verses in the Quran..

Let me please say that:
first:
Although the Quran can be read and generally understood by the general public, it's for the scholars to show the detailed Quranic laws and views, where they study the Quran in addition to the hadith, the history ..etc.

second:
The Christians and the Jews lived with the prophet Muhammad and the Muslims for centuries..Islam consider these religions to be originated from God and respected religions. This was in times where the Jews and the Christians were burning their own people at the stake for what they consider to be heretic views!!

 

[metis]

This was in times where the Jews and the Christians were burning their own people at the stake for what they consider to be heretic views!!

Much like the Sunni and Shi'i are doing to each other?

 

[Shia Islam]

Much like the Sunni and Shi'i are doing to each other?

The probelem is with the extremist Salafi/Wahhabi groups..
Let us list all of the terrorist groups
AlQaeda ISIL BokoHaram etc... They are as i Mentioned..

Now let us look at the Shia groups:
The first group is Hizbollah, which is fighting to liberate their land..

They only joined the Syrian war after the radical Sunni terrorist groups entered Syria from all over the world and started their ethnic cleansing against the Alawites and the Shia in Syria..

Iraqis also suffered alot after the fall of Sadam, where ISIL occupied many parts of Iraq..

Shia are only minority in the Muslim world which was oppressed throughout the Centuries..And Until the Iranian revolution, the Shiites in general were not very much into politics..

 

[metis]

Shia are only minority in the Muslim world which was oppressed throughout the Centuries..And Until the Iranian revolution, the Shiites in general were not very much into politics..

But they certainly are now.

 

[ChristineM]

Easy way to reduce or stop the killing of minorities in the middle east. Stop bombing them.

Sure it's a far more complex situation than that but its a start.

There is another way. When asked by the British government how to settle matters in the middle east Edward de Bono, the guru of creative and lateral thinking, suggested sending them Marmite.

His logic is this. A lack of zinc makes men irritable and belligerent. You get zinc in yeast, in the mid east bread is unleavened so no yeast is used to make it. Marmite is yeast extract so the great man says, Marmite is the answer to easing the way to peace.

Sadly bombs seem to be a more loved method so his idea was scrapped

 

[Flankerl]

This was in times where the Jews were burning their own people at the stake for what they consider to be heretic views!!

Source please.

 

[Shia Islam]

Source please.

If I know that "Sources" do really mean something for you I would have posted some for you here ..

That is why I only recommend that you read the bible itself..
Here is a good quote..

"Once more Pilate came out and said to the Jews gathered there, “Look, I am bringing him out to you to let you know that I find no basis for a charge against him.” When Jesus came out wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe, Pilate said to them, “Here is the man!”

As soon as the chief priests and their officials saw him, they shouted, “Crucify! Crucify!” From John 18.

 

[Flankerl]

Quoting a Christian source to a Jew.

Are you next going to cite some fun blood libel stories?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Today we observe a terrifying picture: the two-thousand year Christian presence in the Middle East and Africa is rapidly disappearing. According to figures by the Centre for the Study of World Christianity, in 2016 alone there were killed 90 thousand Christians, that is, every six minutes a Christian dies for his faith. Between half a million and six hundred thousand Christians are enduring harassment and restrictions in confessing their faith. This means that the world community has been unable to learn the lessons of the destructive wars of the twentieth century and, as before, places political interests above fundamental human rights.


In this regard the Billy Graham Evangelical Association organized the World Summit of Christian Leaders in Defense of Persecuted Christians. About a thousand delegates from more than 150 countries attended the summit on May 10-13 in Washington. The reason for such a large event was persecution of Christians of the Middle East, Africa and other regions of the world. In scale, these unprecedented in modern history persecutions can be compared only with the persecution of Christians in the first centuries of the Nativity of Christ and the repression against Christians carried out by atheistic authorities in the 20th century. The World Summit of Christian Leaders in Defense of Persecuted Christians was to become a platform for a comprehensive discussion of this situation with the aim of changing it for the better.


The joint declaration of Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill also states: “Our gaze must firstly turn to those regions of the world where Christians are victims of persecution. In many countries of the Middle East and North Africa whole families, villages and cities of our brothers and sisters in Christ are being completely exterminated. Their churches are being barbarously ravaged and looted, their sacred objects profaned, their monuments destroyed. It is with pain that we call to mind the situation in Syria, Iraq and other countries of the Middle East, and the massive exodus of Christians from the land in which our faith was first disseminated and in which they have lived since the time of the Apostles, together with other religious communities.”


Thus, we see high-ranking representatives of all major Christian denominations united in their aspiration to end the humanitarian disaster and bring peace to the region that is the cradle of Christianity.


"I believe that his (the patriarch Kirill's) support to the Syrian government will help to protect the lives of Christians. I said the same thing at a meeting with Vladimir Putin," – said Billy Graham in his speech after the meeting with the Primate of Russian Orthodox Church on on October 30, 2015.


Indeed, the Moscow Patriarchate continually appeals to the international community to defend the suffering Christians of the Middle East. As far back as 2011 the Russian Orthodox Church held an international conference in Moscow entitled ‘Freedom of Religion: The Problem of Discrimination and Persecution of Christians.’ Gathered at this forum were religious figures and experts from all over the world. They discussed instances of the persecution of Christians and expressed concern at the situation which had arisen.


Russian Orthodox Church regularly raises the issue of the persecution of Christ’s followers at international events. The Moscow Patriarchate insists that these topics be included in the final documents of conferences and forums. They discuss the plight of believers in the Middle East with political leaders and representatives of the diplomatic community of various countries of the world. "In recent years, also thanks to the joint efforts of the Christian Churches and countries, we have managed to achieve the recognition at the international level of the persecution of Christians in the Middle East" – the Chairman of the Moscow patriarchate Department for External Church Relations Metropolitan Hilarion pointed out in his presentation at the 5th European Catholic-Orthodox Forum in January this year.


For example, on March 7, 2017, at the Patriarchal residence in St Daniel’s Monastery, His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia met with Dr. Mohammed Abdul Sattar al-Sayeed, Minister of Awqaf of the Syrian Arab Republic.


Dr. al-Sayeed conveyed to the Primate of the Russian Church greetings from Patriarch John X of Antioch and emphasized that Muslims in Syria had very close relationships with the faithful of the Orthodox Church of Antioch. He also told about the activities of his ministry whose task is to promote cooperation between the state and the religious communities in Syria and, among other things, to address the needs of Christians. "I want to say that Syria is inseparable from Christianity, it is the cradle of the Christian religion," – said the Syrian Minister while expressing his conviction that the terrorists' attempts to expel Christians from Syria are aimed at destroying it as a state, since "it were Christians and Muslims who have built a civilization there together, hand in hand".


In his turn, Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia has thanked Russia's Foreign Ministry and other authorities for protecting Syrians from extermination. "The Russian counter-terrorism operation [in Syria] has given Christians a hope. The leaders of the Middle Eastern Churches have more than once attested in public and asked Russia to stand up for Christians in Syria and Iraq," – he said at the Foreign Ministry's Reception House on April 16 this year. The Russian Orthodox Church continues to support the Church of Antioch, whose center has been historically located in Damascus, the patriarch said. "Including materially, we assist in organizing humanitarian convoys," he said.


His Holiness also noted that global community is still paying no attention to the persecutions of Christians in a number of countries, particularly in Africa. Clashes between Church of Alexandria followers and the Muslim population have continued for many years, Patriarch Kirill said with grief in his heart. "In Nigeria, whole settlements of Christians are being slaughtered and hundreds of churches burned down. But the world is silent as if nothing is happening," – the Russian Church leader stressed in his speech. The authorities in Sudan, Myanmar and Pakistan are also condoning the persecution of Christians in their countries, he said.


And this means that there is a good scope of work in which inter-Christian cooperation is to be shown further.

Maybe focusing on specific flavours of religious persecution isn't helpful?

Other than international military policing actions under UN auspices, though, I'm not really sure what you want done that isn't already being done.