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The God of OT vs the God of NT? Are they the same?

Servant_of_the_One1

Servant_of_the_One1

Well-Known Member
The God of OT:

15 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

(1 Samuel 15: 1-3)
The Violence in OT is clear.
Message is: Kill enemies of the God of Israel.


Now it seems the authors of NT are more confused and dont know weither to follow Love your enemies part or the sword:



The God of NT: Love your Enemies.
That sounds cool right? Until you read this:

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

And until you read about the bloodthirsty history of the christians(the classical crusaders and modern crusaders).
Butchering 50.000 muslims and jews in one day is truly inline with Samuel 15:13 and with the NT verse: Do not suppose that i have come.............but a sword.
Perhaps the enemy is loved with a hug,and same time stabbed in the back.
 
George-ananda

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
The God of OT vs the God of NT? Are they the same?

I'll say 'Yes', but you can see the evolution of thought about God over the centuries advances to higher levels. I listen to sources post-Bible too.
 
Baladas

Baladas

An Págánach
I think that there could be several answers to this, considering that the Old and New Testaments are made up of many separate books and are not necessarily a cohesive whole.
 
Levite

Levite

Higher and Higher
Servant_of_the_One1 said:
The God of OT:

15 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

(1 Samuel 15: 1-3)
The Violence in OT is clear.
Message is: Kill enemies of the God of Israel.

Now it seems the authors of NT are more confused and dont know weither to follow Love your enemies part or the sword:

The God of NT: Love your Enemies.
That sounds cool right? Until you read this:

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

And until you read about the bloodthirsty history of the christians(the classical crusaders and modern crusaders).
Butchering 50.000 muslims and jews in one day is truly inline with Samuel 15:13 and with the NT verse: Do not suppose that i have come.............but a sword.
Perhaps the enemy is loved with a hug,and same time stabbed in the back.
Click to expand...

It is misleading to refer to "the God of the Old Testament" (aside from the fact that there is no such thing as "the Old Testament," which is a Christian name for their translations and arrangements of the Hebrew Scriptures).

The Hebrew Scriptures represent a series of texts composed over the course of many centuries-- perhaps close to a millennium-- in widely varying situations and even localities. Represented in its different component books are several distinct theologies, and probably more subtle variations of those theologies. God is not always depicted the same way even within the same book, let alone throughout the canon of Jewish Scripture. Not to mention, of course, that God is always depicted with poetic imagery, with metaphor and simile, and other non-literal descriptions of which the reader must be aware.

All that is, of course, also notwithstanding the evolution of theologies within Judaism in the Second Temple and Rabbinic Eras, since our tradition is based heavily in the understanding that our sacred texts are designed and intended to be continually reinterpreted, that it is expected that continuous plumbing of the limitless depths of Torah will yield new and richer insights into God and what He wishes of us.
 
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Baladas

Baladas

An Págánach
A major part of what led me out of Christianity was the realization that the loving reality that I had experienced was not capable of the barbarous violence of the OT and Revelation.
 
Flankerl

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Shemot 23:4-5
If you come upon your enemy's bull or his stray donkey, you shall surely return it to him.
If you see your enemy's donkey lying under its burden would you refrain from helping him? You shall surely help along with him.

Mishlei 24:17-18
When your enemy falls, do not rejoice, and when he stumbles, let your heart not exult,
lest the Lord see and be displeased, and turn His wrath away from him.

Mishlei 25:21-22
If your enemy is hungry, feed him bread, and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink;
for you will be scooping coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you.


:rolleyes:
 
A

Awoon

Well-Known Member
The God of the OT always had an intercessor to access it. The God of the NT can be directly accessed by every individual, (Jesus prayer OUR Father). Cults still act as though they and they alone can access their God for you or prophecy over you in the name of their God. No one needs a church or cult to access God according to Jesus.
 
Baladas

Baladas

An Págánach
Levite said:
It is misleading to refer to "the God of the Old Testament" (aside from the fact that there is no such thing as "the Old Testament," which is a Christian name for their translations and arrangements of the Hebrew Scriptures).

The Hebrew Scriptures represent a series of texts composed over the course of many centuries-- perhaps close to a millennium-- in widely varying situations and even localities. Represented in its different component books are several distinct theologies, and probably more subtle variations of those theologies. God is not always depicted the same way even within the same book, let alone throughout the canon of Jewish Scripture. Not to mention, of course, that God is always depicted with poetic imagery, with metaphor and simile, and other non-literal descriptions of which the reader must be aware.

All that is, of course, also notwithstanding the evolution of theologies within Judaism in the Second Temple and Rabbinic Eras, since our tradition is based heavily in the understanding that our sacred texts are designed and intended to be continually reinterpreted, that it is expected that continous plumbing of the limitless depths of Torah will yield new and richer insights into God and what He wishes of us.
Click to expand...
Flankerl said:
Shemot 23:4-5
If you come upon your enemy's bull or his stray donkey, you shall surely return it to him.
If you see your enemy's donkey lying under its burden would you refrain from helping him? You shall surely help along with him.

Mishlei 24:17-18
When your enemy falls, do not rejoice, and when he stumbles, let your heart not exult,
lest the Lord see and be displeased, and turn His wrath away from him.

Mishlei 25:21-22
If your enemy is hungry, feed him bread, and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink;
for you will be scooping coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you.


:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I am continually shocked and amazed at how badly misrepresented Judaism was to me when I was a Christian. :(
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Playing my rather comfortable role as a heretic, I tend to lean in the direction that both are probably honest human attempts to try and understand God.
 
Blastcat

Blastcat

Active Member
George-ananda said:
The God of OT vs the God of NT? Are they the same?

I'll say 'Yes', but you can see the evolution of thought about God over the centuries advances to higher levels. I listen to sources post-Bible too.
Click to expand...


So, let me get this straight. The THOUGHT about god changes, but not the god itself. Is that a THOUGHT about god?
So, I am to believe that you would have a higher level of knowledge about the god, than the people who actually wrote the stories themselves.

Ok.. by what method would you say that you NOW know more the truth of this god than people in the past?
 
Blastcat

Blastcat

Active Member
seekingtruth said:
I think that there could be several answers to this, considering that the Old and New Testaments are made up of many separate books and are not necessarily a cohesive whole.
Click to expand...

So, no cohesive whole can be made of this god? I would agree with that. Doesn't make a lick of sense to me no how.
 
Blastcat

Blastcat

Active Member
InChrist said:
I believe One and the same God is revealed throughout the scriptures.
Click to expand...

So, is it a loving god, an evil god, a good god, or a jealous god or a vengeful god, or a jewish war god or a political god or a creation god or a three in one god or a single god, or a drowning kind of a god?

Do you see my point? I could go on.. there are a lot of VIEWS about god.. there are what.. 30,000 denominations of Christians that disagree about one aspect of god or another?

I'm pretty sure that not ALL Christians will agree with your particular take on what god is supposed to BE. Some people have told me that ONLY the New Testament Jesus is the one true god and so forth.. I can't keep up, frankly.

So,,, why should I accept only YOUR version of a god?
 
Blastcat

Blastcat

Active Member
metis said:
Playing my rather comfortable role as a heretic, I tend to lean in the direction that both are probably honest human attempts to try and understand God.
Click to expand...
Ok, fair enough... But you still assume that one of the things that there are different opinions possible about this god. Nobody really can say that they KNOW what this god is or isn't. Right?
Is that what you mean?
 
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