The God of OT vs the God of NT? Are they the same?

[Blastcat]

How does perverting the context and interpretation help anyone?

How do you not think glorifying drowning everyone isn't perverting the context of the story? How do you think you are NOT interpreting this story as a good and honorable one? How can you justify drowning everyone? BABIES... yes, those evil babies and those evil fetuses too... RIGHT. I think you have answered my question, though. You think genocide is a good thing.

The story is about saving decent humanity from evil humanity.

And that is your perverted interpretation of the story. In what possible CONTEXT is it OKEE DOKEE to drown a baby? Just one baby?. not countless babies.. but just one single baby? Can you explain that bit of reasoning. HOW is a baby evil humanity, in your opinion?

Only if you ruin the beauty of the text and read it literally. Many people know better then this.

Oh good point, I shouldn't ever forget how beautifully the drowning of all those children is depicted. Wonderful and inspiring to you, no doubt, the wonderful poetry and lyrical beauty of drowning babies. Let's all celebrate how nicely the story is told.. and let's forget that it's about a horrible act. In any case, since you are defending that genocide, I guess i HAVE my answer, as shocking as it is to me. You CAN and you most certainly DO condone even GLOBAL genocide.

 

[Blastcat]

Well the problem in our communication may be that we started in the middle of my beliefs; not the beginning. The best way is for me to explain my position from the beginning.

My interest in all this came from starting at the materialist-atheist position.

And you are off to a very bad start. Right off the bat, you want to load your characterization of the atheist position so that you can more easily defeat it. I don't at all accept your MATERIALIST label. That has nothing to do with atheism, sorry. I don't know where you want to go with a fallacious start like that.. but trying to sneak in materialism right off the bat isn't impressive at all.

It's almost as if I held that view. I don't. Some atheists MIGHT.. I would argue with them that they are mistaken, as well. Materialism is a different topic from atheism. Try to keep on track. Talk about materialism or atheism, but don't conflate the two as if they were together somehow.

Maybe your error is due to the fact that you might be a super-naturalist. But I don't SEE any cause to have a supernatural/natural split because I see absolutely no reason to believe that there IS any supernatural to compare to the natural. So, when it comes down to my position on REALITY, I vote yes. Reality exists. I don't agree that it's split into the categories you would ascribe to me.

The supernatural is an option? No, Not until you demonstrate that it is. So, I have NO idea what you mean by materialist and why I should have to adopt this position. I don't.

Certain things happened that got me curious about the paranormal. I studied this quite a bit and came to the objective position that, beyond reasonable doubt, things happen that could not happen in the worldview of the atheist-materialist.

OK, you believe in the paranormal by using bad reasoning. What you just described is the argument from ignorance. Yes, I'm well aware of that logical fallacy. When you use a logical fallacy to get to a conclusion, you have used a bad method and your conclusion's truth will not have been established. You don't seem to be aware or caring about how your logic mistake in this case makes your belief completely unwarranted. Doesn't that concern you at all? Have you heard about the argument from ignorance and how to AVOID falling into that trap?

If it was pointed out to me that I EVER used the logical fallacy of arguing from ignorance, I would NOT have any confidence in the conclusion that I had previously drawn from my specious reasoning. But that's me. I am concerned about the TRUTH of my beliefs.

Maybe you don't really care that your beliefs might be completely false. Some people do tell me that they don't. I'm usually stunned to silence when I hear that.. but people aren't all the same. You are entitled to believe whatever you like for whatever reason that you choose. It's just that I would prefer to only believe TRUE things and use the BEST methods possible to make sure that they ARE true, and that I'm not falling for some bad reasoning, instead.

My interest became about knowing what this 'more' than materialism could be.

I wonder how you define materialism. And in particular, I would love to know what this "more" that you can "know" and how you can "know" it. What method did you use to get to "know" that a supernatural realm exists?

Going further in this branch of Hinduism is the teaching that consciousness is fundamental and One (called Brahman).

So, you found "teachings".. and? Does it mean that if someone "teaches" a subject, that the subject is true? Does the mere mentioning of a claim make it true? How do you know that any of this is actually true? Does it matter to you at all that what you believe in might NOT be true?

So I might not be your typical theist that starts with arguing for the existence of God and then determining my position in the universe (top-down approach). I start from the human experience and from there go on to create my understanding of the universe (bottom-up approach).

You started from the belief in the paranormal as TRUE and then you determined your position in the universe ( top-down approach ).
You started from the belief that the paranormal is a TRUE human experience and from there went on to create your 'understanding' of the universe. EITHER WAY.. you started by assuming that the paranormal was true.

So before you ask, 'no' I can't objectively verify my beliefs for you.

Oh, what a shame. I'm supposed to be impressed by that?

But I will say and will defend the position that the eastern/Indian wisdom tradition is the strongest hypothesis out there (and that includes atheistic-materialism).

What a lovely non sequitur. You NEVER ONCE tried to explain how that might be. What method, precisely, did you use to determine all of that belief structure? You forgot to explain that bit.. I KNOW you believe, but how you arrived at these beliefs? NO IDEA.. and you present NO IDEA..

I have a few questions for clarification's sake.

1. How did you determine that the paranormal was true?
2. How did you determine that ONLY your current beliefs explain the paranormal?

Thanks for your huge effort. I know I can be challenging. That's a good thing, yes?

 

[George-ananda]

I know I can be challenging. That's a good thing, yes?

only up to a point.....and then it becomes unproductive for any meaningful exchange and you're tuned out as too tiresome

 

[Blastcat]

Are you pro-life and someone who stands for the life of the unborn?

My opinion on that has nothing to do with the flood genocide. Try to keep up.

When humans attempt to destroy an entire group of people it is wrong whatever the reasons, but even though we know it's wrong humans always seem to make exceptions in their situation.

So, in your view, genocide can be justified?

In the scriptures which you are getting the Flood account from, it is also repeatedly revealed that God is the Creator of life and Judge who determines right and wrong, life and death. He alone has the wisdom and right to end life according to His judgment as God the Author of life.

So, you can't know if something is right or wrong? All you can offer is that, if God did it, it's right?

I'm sorry to say, that I CAN know if something like genocide is right or if it's wrong. I say it's wrong. Aren't I the crazy one? But in your view, even GLOBAL GENOCIDE is a-ok if your god does it.

Well now, what fine system of ethics.. What's that called, divine command?

 

[Blastcat]

only up to a point.....and then it becomes unproductive for any meaningful exchange and you're tuned out as too tiresome

It would be very tiresome for you to have to explain anything, And you don't. And you blame that failure on me. I think it's a cop out to say something is TRUE and then never want to explain how that can be when challenged.

It's almost as if you can't BE challenged. Oh well.. if you can't be challenged, I suppose the conversation is over. But .. what about all those lovely thoughts of yours?

I guess they fall flat too. You wont explain them, you wont bother to defend them.. and in fact, you insist that you CANT explain them. So what are you precisely doing in here.. Preaching?

And I thought this forum was about debating beliefs. So much for that lovely illusion. In your case, I was wrong. You aren't in here to debate anything. You are here for.... ahhh.. something else.

Maybe your idea of a debate is that both parties agree on everything. That's an odd way of seeing debates, but .. who knows?
Maybe you can't explain that, either.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And that is your perverted interpretation of the story. In what possible CONTEXT is it OKEE DOKEE to drown a baby? Just one baby?. not countless babies.. but just one single baby? Can you explain that bit of reasoning. HOW is a baby evil humanity, in your opinion?

Marching around with a Save-the-Babies sign strikes me as convenient posturing, but perhaps I don't understand your point. Are you simply railing against literalists? And, if so, are you aware that a very large number of Jews (and, perhaps, Christians) reject the historicity of a global flood?

 

[InChrist]

My opinion on that has nothing to do with the flood genocide. Try to keep up.


So, in your view, genocide can be justified?


So, you can't know if something is right or wrong? All you can offer is that, if God did it, it's right?

I'm sorry to say, that I CAN know if something like genocide is right or if it's wrong. I say it's wrong. Aren't I the crazy one? But in your view, even GLOBAL GENOCIDE is a-ok if your god does it.

Well now, what fine system of ethics.. What's that called, divine command?

I think your view on abortion does relate to this subject because you are using the idea of babies being killed to get an emotional outrage going against God. Yet, in real life right now you may not care if babies in the womb are killed.


As I said already genocide is not justified, but I believe God's judgment is justified. You can attempt to redefine His judgment calling it genocide if you like, but that does not change the fact that if there is a Creator who is the Author of life He alone has the prerogative as to when life ends. You may claim to know more than God or have a higher moral standard, but the reality is there's no way you as a created finite being could have better morals, wisdom or understanding as it relates to the flood or anything else as does the Creator of heaven and earth.

 

[outhouse]

How do you not think glorifying drowning everyone isn't perverting the context of the story?

Because it did not happen.

You will never understand anything here if you don't understand it is a story.

It was not meant to be read literally, and you are defining it literally.

 

[outhouse]

Oh good point, I shouldn't ever forget how beautifully the drowning of all those children is depicted.

It never happened, and was meant to be read allegorically and metaphorically and mythically.

No child was drowned in the making of this ancient literature

 

[Blastcat]

It never happened, and was meant to be read allegorically and metaphorically and mythically.

No child was drowned in the making of this ancient literature

OH I KNOW THAT.
it's just a story about a god. NOW IN THIS STORY ABOUT A GOD... what did the god do?

 

[Blastcat]

Because it did not happen.

You will never understand anything here if you don't understand it is a story.

It was not meant to be read literally, and you are defining it literally.

OH I KNOW IT'S JUST A STORY. and in this story, what did the god do?

 

[Blastcat]

="InChrist, post: 4270845, member: 29797"]

I think your view on abortion does relate to this subject because you are using the idea of babies being killed

It's really hard for you to answer the simple question, isn't it? Sorry, but my views about abortion aren't IN the flood story. The Bible flood story is about a god, and in this bible flood story, what does the god do?

In the story about this god, is it true or NOT that this god floods the earth and drowns everyone but a select few? YES OR NO

And in the story about this god, is it true or not that this god drowns BABIES on purpose. YES OR NO?

Is this an EVASION forum?

 

[Unification]

The God of OT:

15 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

(1 Samuel 15: 1-3)
The Violence in OT is clear.
Message is: Kill enemies of the God of Israel.


Now it seems the authors of NT are more confused and dont know weither to follow Love your enemies part or the sword:



The God of NT: Love your Enemies.
That sounds cool right? Until you read this:

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

And until you read about the bloodthirsty history of the christians(the classical crusaders and modern crusaders).
Butchering 50.000 muslims and jews in one day is truly inline with Samuel 15:13 and with the NT verse: Do not suppose that i have come.............but a sword.
Perhaps the enemy is loved with a hug,and same time stabbed in the back.

They are metaphorical for destroying and murdering bad thoughts, emotions, desires, etc in your brain and mind. Bad cells. The purification of the mind.
The earth in scripture is a way of conveying the concept of "matter" which is within the physical body of a human.
When anyone receives the light or truth, it's not peaceful at first, it's tough letting go of the ego and ones own knowledge, beliefs for truth. Literally feels like you're almost dying throughout the restructuring of the mind.

 

[Unification]

It's really hard for you to answer the simple question, isn't it? Sorry, but my views about abortion aren't IN the flood story. The Bible flood story is about a god, and in this bible flood story, what does the god do?

In the story about this god, is it true or NOT that this god floods the earth and drowns everyone but a select few? YES OR NO

And in the story about this god, is it true or not that this god drowns BABIES on purpose. YES OR NO?

Is this an EVASION forum?

[/QUOTE]

Children, men, and women in scripture are metaphorical for seeds of knowledge, emotion, desire, etc.

Essentially, brain cells/neurons growing from dendrites where the tree of knowledge derives from, the brain.

Noah is representative of any human. The ark is the brain. His wife, three sons, and their three wives are symbolic for the 7 chakras up the spine/spinal cord of the human. (Serpent/mutant DNA)

The exodus says to kill the firstborn (protein) and remove the leaven(enzymes) from your house (brain). The bad ones.

Noah's Ark(Arc) where the flood of cosmic energy/light came and destroyed them all (bad cells).

An Arc is defined as a continuous passage of an electric current between two or more separated carbon or other electrodes.

Nerve impulses in the human body are triggered across synapse's.

These are electrical impulses.

In the brain the impulse Arcs from one receptor to the other.

As one is separated from thought and mind, we are receiving light energy through the Pineal Gland which then causes Arcs of electricity from receptor to receptor.

These are inner experiences of consciousness achieved through electrical Arcs,or Arks. The matierial world and being wouldn't understand, or receive this energy.

Angles of light cause Arcs in the brain, Archangels or we can say Arcangles.

The human brain is a receiver for information in motion/energy/consciousness from its external and internal environment. It's a miniature duplicate brain of the cosmos (big brain)

Conveying signals point to point. Source to source.

Information in motion. (Photons/light)
The word 'Angel' is taken from the Greek word 'Angelos' which means 'Messenger, Angels are God's messengers, and Einstein said that Light comes to the Earth at an angle, and that light which are Photons, are messenger particles. Angels/Angles. Archangel= Arcangle.

The tabernacle of God is the brain. The tabernacle of consciousness is the brain.

With the twelve tribes surrounding: twelve cranial nerves.

The twelve cranial nerves regulate touch, taste, smell, sight, hearing, balance, movement, and much more. They are responsible for how you interact with and interpret your environment. In other words, they help define your reality.

The two tribes (cranial nerves) of the South are from the cerebrum, the optic and olfactory. The 10 other tribes/nerves are of the north, from the brain stem.

 

[JacobEzra.]

The God of OT:

15 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

(1 Samuel 15: 1-3)
The Violence in OT is clear.
Message is: Kill enemies of the God of Israel.


Now it seems the authors of NT are more confused and dont know weither to follow Love your enemies part or the sword:



The God of NT: Love your Enemies.
That sounds cool right? Until you read this:

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

And until you read about the bloodthirsty history of the christians(the classical crusaders and modern crusaders).
Butchering 50.000 muslims and jews in one day is truly inline with Samuel 15:13 and with the NT verse: Do not suppose that i have come.............but a sword.
Perhaps the enemy is loved with a hug,and same time stabbed in the back.

So the Abrahamic god is a bloodthirsyty lunatic of a god?

 

[Unification]

So the Abrahamic god is a bloodthirsyty lunatic of a god?

There is a difference between scriptures and then all twenty trillion subjective mindkind created religions, Abrahamic being one of them, one of the twenty trillion defining "God" in their own image(imagination)

 

[JacobEzra.]

There is a difference between scriptures and then all twenty trillion subjective mindkind created religions, Abrahamic being one of them, one of the twenty trillion defining "God" in their own image(imagination)

Reading your posts give me a feeling of lsd flashbacks

 

[Unification]

Reading your posts give me a feeling of lsd flashbacks

Try altering the mind without LSD.
Many blessings to you, pal.

 

[Blastcat]

Children, men, and women in scripture are metaphorical for seeds of knowledge, emotion, desire, etc.

Essentially, brain cells/neurons growing from dendrites where the tree of knowledge derives from, the brain.

Noah is representative of any human. The ark is the brain. His wife, three sons, and their three wives are symbolic for the 7 chakras up the spine/spinal cord of the human. (Serpent/mutant DNA)

The exodus says to kill the firstborn (protein) and remove the leaven(enzymes) from your house (brain). The bad ones.

Noah's Ark(Arc) where the flood of cosmic energy/light came and destroyed them all (bad cells).

An Arc is defined as a continuous passage of an electric current between two or more separated carbon or other electrodes.

Nerve impulses in the human body are triggered across synapse's.

These are electrical impulses.

In the brain the impulse Arcs from one receptor to the other.

As one is separated from thought and mind, we are receiving light energy through the Pineal Gland which then causes Arcs of electricity from receptor to receptor.

These are inner experiences of consciousness achieved through electrical Arcs,or Arks. The matierial world and being wouldn't understand, or receive this energy.

Angles of light cause Arcs in the brain, Archangels or we can say Arcangles.

The human brain is a receiver for information in motion/energy/consciousness from its external and internal environment. It's a miniature duplicate brain of the cosmos (big brain)

Conveying signals point to point. Source to source.

Information in motion. (Photons/light)
The word 'Angel' is taken from the Greek word 'Angelos' which means 'Messenger, Angels are God's messengers, and Einstein said that Light comes to the Earth at an angle, and that light which are Photons, are messenger particles. Angels/Angles. Archangel= Arcangle.

The tabernacle of God is the brain. The tabernacle of consciousness is the brain.

With the twelve tribes surrounding: twelve cranial nerves.

The twelve cranial nerves regulate touch, taste, smell, sight, hearing, balance, movement, and much more. They are responsible for how you interact with and interpret your environment. In other words, they help define your reality.

The two tribes (cranial nerves) of the South are from the cerebrum, the optic and olfactory. The 10 other tribes/nerves are of the north, from the brain stem.

and you honestly think this is an answer to my questions? wow. maybe this forum is not for me.

 

[Thief]

And it also doesn't mean there IS a Higher Power. And of course, we have laws and consequences enough for breaking them. We don't need any kind of god or HP for that.



Well, except, as I stated before there are things that YOU might like done to you, that I would NEVER want done to me. How about BEFORE you do onto me something how about you CHECK with me if I would like it too. You might discover that we don't agree on moral issues as much as you might have assumed. So, the Golden Rule needs an update.



Thanks for the speculation. What if there isn't a heaven?.. What if there IS a HP and it's perfectly evil? How would you know? If you can speculate something into existence, then so can I.

I am "doing" speculation as you would speculate unto me. It's kind of trivial, and meaningless.

I could also further the speculation......
Having denial in declaration, you could end up beside someone who also makes denial.

Have you read the book of Job?