The God of OT vs the God of NT? Are they the same?

[outhouse]

Hong: Yes, Evolutionists believe they are facts. I have studied your "facts". For me they are just stories.

You have not studied well enough to understand the facts fully.

Its OK you think they are just stories. You do not teach this factual science to children.

We even have multiple skeletons from the same type of dinosaur in some cases. Why has no complete skeleton been found for the so called missing link?

Every single fossil found is a missing link.

We have many missing links, and there will always be a need for more to understand the past better.

Scientists continue to look for something that does not exist.

Science see's this much differently, academia looks and teaches this differently.

many missing links have factually been found.


What you do not understand is it only takes one fossil to prove evolution wrong. The one fossil can show the timeline wrong.

Out of billions of fossils found NOT ONE has been found that contradicts the facts of evolution of life on this planet.


Evolution is fact and not up for debate, so you may want to try another angle you can have more success with.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

OH I KNOW THAT.
it's just a story about a god. NOW IN THIS STORY ABOUT A GOD... what did the god do?

OH I KNOW IT'S JUST A STORY. and in this story, what did the god do?

He destroyed all land-based life with the exception of Noah, his family, and the other life brought onto the ark.

 

[RossRonin]

Sorry, but this is the same god who drowns every baby on earth .. Sorry, but you have a very strange definition of what is loving and kind. I guess those awful babies deserved to drown in the flood, right? Those NASTY babies. Not forgetting the many babies still in the WOMBS who died along with their mothers.. LOVE? KINDNESS? ... No, I don't see it.

You know, what if those babies really were awful and nasty--I mean, in God's estimation? After all, he says "the wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies." According to God's judgment, many people are no better than "brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed."

Tell me, would you feel the slightest remorse for drowning baby Hitler, given the opportunity? I doubt he was an awful, nasty baby compared to other babies. But knowing beforehand what a despicable creature he would become and the immense misery he would inflict upon millions, I think you would gladly drown him, regardless of his tiny nose and cherubic grin.

God claims foreknowledge of the final disposition of all his creatures. If for argument's sake we accept God's testimony on that point, then not one of us would find fault with him for drowning little Adolf. We'd be standing there applauding.

Take that reasoning a step further and suddenly it's clear how an otherwise kind, merciful, compassionate God can send countless women and children to a violent and untimely death, apparently without remorse. "Man that is in honor, and understands not, is like the beasts that perish." God knows well in advance who will receive the love of the truth and who will reject it; so the preemptive annihilation of those pitiful little tykes and their poor pregnant mums, all of whom would otherwise live and die like beasts (whilst supremely offending their Creator in the process) does have a rational justification.

Ecclesiastes 3:18 reads, "I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts." Men and women in the food industry slaughter fish, fowls, and mammals of all sorts every day all over this planet, and we don't see them as murderers. If God considers those made in his image to be animals, who are content to live and die without the knowledge of God, neither is he a murderer or immoral when he dispenses with them in similar fashion.

 

[Unification]

Maybe way more than mere thousands.. it's more likely billions., but why quibble, i generally agree that my brain has to function the way that human brains function in order for my brain to function the way that human brains function. Thank you for that penetrating exploration of the perfectly obvious.



Oh, you're sure of that. Noted.



Well, I wouldn't call your daydream INSANE.. but I wouldn't call it rational, either. I have no idea how you discovered that something, and I'm not too clear what you meant here.. but that something "more forceful and powerful than us sustaining our life and allowing experience and life to exist, as well as receiving the conscious intelligence into our brains ".

You don't seem to be capable of defining what that something is, but you say that you are sure of this. I would love to know how you arrived at that certainty.

And I don't appreciate your attempt at poisoning the well, I don't make rational decisions based on emotions, sorry. IF you ever catch me at it, I will gladly take it back. I would agree that appeals to emotion and irrational thought processes are not what I would ever call good and clear thinking.

You don't have to needlessly assume the very worst of me to help make your case. You could, in fact, choose to assume the best. Why not? Would it hurt to think that I am not bound by mere emotion whenever I happen to disagree with one of your ideas?

Can I , in fact, be a rational person in your estimation, and not just someone to dismiss as.. merely emotional?

Here is an emotional plea.. PLEASE do not assume the worst of me. You wouldn't want to fall into the trap of a hidden or implied ad hominem. And if it is TRUE that as soon as I disagree with you I am just ranting emotionally without being honestly trying to have a reasoned discussion, then I am fine to not HAVE this discussion.

And you should not pursue any discussion with me, either. I have NO idea why you would want to discuss anything with an irrational person. So, it's up to you to ignore me, or engage me.

You're not irrational buddy. I know that you're a bright man. Please don't assume that I think anything negative of you or anyone. I'm not your enemy. I have no care or desire to do anything for myself. You had many questions and I was happy to provide answers, a fresh outlook on them.
The same way that any individual is inspired. Through the conscious. Out of nowhere. Not thinking, separating from mind and thought and making zero judgements, not living by sight or what I think should be truth alone. Not having any image or preconceived ideas of what "God" is.

Explaining God as an individual or a someone is an old religious concept. Most people think of God as a cosmic individual because most of everyone else seems to say so. But these same people have not thought about it deeply enough. Common sense should tell us that to relay information about something beyond both time and space (God) to something both limited by time and space (us) is impossible. The only way to truly even attempt it is to use concrete examples and literal stories. Our brains operate in physical reality, so we must have concrete examples to grasp. Mostly, it just comes in form of pure consciousness.
Putting the force that controls life in a human body worked in the ancient past, because primitive people did not know about invisible forms of energy. Unknown forces of nature were explained by saying "a" God did it. Since then, our knowledge has evolved and progressed. Now we know about unseen forces. We know that they are forms of energy/light.

My brain is only a receiver, in the Universe there is a core from which we obtain knowledge, strength and inspiration. I have not penetrated into the secrets of this core, but I know that it exists. -Nikola Tesla

Penetration of more of this energy, truth about life and truth about spirit just comes within "out of the air" when one surrenders to the force.

Many blessings to you and your family pal.

 

[Blastcat]

He destroyed all land-based life with the exception of Noah, his family, and the other life brought onto the ark.

Kinda almost like a sort of a genocide..no?

Genocide is the systematic destruction of all or a significant part of a racial, ethnic, religious or national group. Well-known examples of genocide include the Holocaust, the Armenian Genocide, and more recently the Rwandan Genocide and the Bosnian Genocide.

It's a bit MORE people dead than the Holocaust and so on.. don't you think? Is it me, or are some people not really getting this?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Kinda almost like a sort of a genocide..no?

Kinda almost but not exactly. Therefore?

 

[Unification]

You're not irrational buddy. I know that you're a bright man. Please don't assume that I think anything negative of you or anyone. I'm not your enemy. I have no care or desire to do anything for myself. You had many questions and I was happy to provide answers, a fresh outlook on them.
The same way that any individual is inspired. Through the conscious. Out of nowhere. Not thinking, separating from mind and thought and making zero judgements, not living by sight or what I think should be truth alone. Not having any image or preconceived ideas of what "God" is.

Explaining God as an individual or a someone is an old religious concept. Most people think of God as a cosmic individual because most of everyone else seems to say so. But these same people have not thought about it deeply enough. Common sense should tell us that to relay information about something beyond both time and space (God) to something both limited by time and space (us) is impossible. The only way to truly even attempt it is to use concrete examples and literal stories. Our brains operate in physical reality, so we must have concrete examples to grasp. Mostly, it just comes in form of pure consciousness.
Putting the force that controls life in a human body worked in the ancient past, because primitive people did not know about invisible forms of energy. Unknown forces of nature were explained by saying "a" God did it. Since then, our knowledge has evolved and progressed. Now we know about unseen forces. We know that they are forms of energy/light.

My brain is only a receiver, in the Universe there is a core from which we obtain knowledge, strength and inspiration. I have not penetrated into the secrets of this core, but I know that it exists. -Nikola Tesla

Penetration of more of this energy, truth about life and truth about spirit just comes within "out of the air" when one surrenders to the force.

Many blessings to you and your family pal.

This is what Noah's ark is all about. Noah means rest. Separating from mind and thought is rest in the head. Rising above thoughts, imaginations, emotions, desires, ones own understanding, etc. Entering within by separating from mind and thought. (Entering the ark) Flood of energy comes and destroys the living cells that are corrupt. The exodus of things the mind allows itself to be enslaved to, to the promised land/salvation/freedom and peace of mind in truth and spirit(conscious) we all need a little less mind, ego, and emotion and more of a conscious, peace of mind fulfilled life.

 

[Unification]

Kinda almost like a sort of a genocide..no?

Genocide is the systematic destruction of all or a significant part of a racial, ethnic, religious or national group. Well-known examples of genocide include the Holocaust, the Armenian Genocide, and more recently the Rwandan Genocide and the Bosnian Genocide.

It's a bit MORE people dead than the Holocaust and so on.. don't you think? Is it me, or are some people not really getting this?

A genocide and purification of the mind is different than mindkind-created genocide.

 

[Flankerl]

Kinda almost like a sort of a genocide..no?

Genocide is the systematic destruction of all or a significant part of a racial, ethnic, religious or national group. Well-known examples of genocide include the Holocaust, the Armenian Genocide, and more recently the Rwandan Genocide and the Bosnian Genocide.

It's a bit MORE people dead than the Holocaust and so on.. don't you think? Is it me, or are some people not really getting this?

What I love about Atheists like yourself is that they don't believe any of this stuff ever happened yet are completely outraged by something which they don't even believe in.

For what its worth(so not much) God created all life so if he is all powerful he probably has the right to do what he pleases with his creation.
An analogy would be a Lego city kids build.

But then again you don't believe this happened so its just cute fake outrage.

 

[Blastcat]

You're not irrational buddy. I know that you're a bright man. Please don't assume that I think anything negative of you or anyone. I'm not your enemy. I have no care or desire to do anything for myself. You had many questions and I was happy to provide answers, a fresh outlook on them.

Great. You aren't my enemy.

The same way that any individual is inspired. Through the conscious. Out of nowhere. Not thinking, separating from mind and thought and making zero judgements, not living by sight or what I think should be truth alone. Not having any image or preconceived ideas of what "God" is.

Not following you .. sorry. The same way that individuals is inspired... oh.. you want to define what your god is. Ok.. Out of nowhere is this idea, you say. Hmm seems to me that you don't happen to be on a distant planet where nobody has every thought or written about gods. You don't live on a deserted island, either. I can't really accept that you lived in a cave completely separate from any god concepts already very well established. Sorry, but no.. it's wasn't out of nowhere. People talk and there are books. And chatrooms and all manner of religiosity going around all the time. The world you and I live in is SATURATED with religiosity, I don't know how you could have possibly avoided all of that. I know I sure didn't. And I'm an atheist.. less probability of noticing religious life around me, but it's there.

What MOUNTAIN did you live on with no TV, no books, no schools, no churches, no community functions, ohhh come on.

And no, I can't accept that you had ZERO JUDGEMENTS because you have made a judgement.. you judge that there IS a god. And that you know what it is and so on.. You aren't IMPARTIAL.. are you? Are you a pure agnostic?

If so, then you don't sound like a pure agnostic.... fooled me...

I don't buy that you were a complete blank slate and that you had no preconceived ideas about god for the reasons I stated above. If you spent a considerable time on this planet, then there are PLENTY of ideas about gods that have been conceived for you, I'm quite sure. And since you seem to be interested in the god concepts, it's probably likely that you had an interest in the subject as you made up your mind about it.. but no judgement? .. no mind was involved in your decision making?

I have no idea how you use English words, then, because this doesn't match up at all.

Explaining God as an individual or a someone is an old religious concept.

Sure, anthropomorphizing natural forces and ideas is a very old religious trick. Completely unjustified, but when you don't know much about anything about how the world works, you can't really be faulted for trying your best. But now, with our modern science?

I see no purpose of hanging on to old outdated superstitions and pretend that this is the pinnacle of human wisdom. I would go so far as to call it an extreme case of foolishness, instead.

Most people think of God as a cosmic individual because most of everyone else seems to say so. But these same people have not thought about it deeply enough

I would agree with that.. marketing works. Childhood indoctrination helps. The promotion of irrational beliefs also helps, as does emotional appeals and fallacious argumentation.. Whatever it takes to keep the priests in business, they tend to try out.

Common sense should tell us that to relay information about something beyond both time and space (God) to something both limited by time and space (us) is impossible.

Ok, we have here your assumptions. Something that is beyond time and space? There is some of that? Can you demonstrate that or is that merely your belief?

I don't accept that you CAN know this to be true, or that you have any evidence that this is true, so I will assume right now that you are simply taking this hypothesis for granted, as IF you knew it to be true. Well, do you know this or what? Maybe YOU yourself don't believe this at all. Hard to tell.

Another thing that is impossible to do is to explain something that isn't real. That's hard to do, too. Your god definition lacks as much evidence as something that just isn't real. And that's a problem if you want anyone to believe in this god concept of yours.. whatever that is. I won't guess too much. Exists out of time and space, apparently.

The only way to truly even attempt it is to use concrete examples and literal stories. Our brains operate in physical reality, so we must have concrete examples to grasp. Mostly, it just comes in form of pure consciousness.

So, because we can't really demonstrate that the god is real, or give any evidence about it of any kind, yes, I suppose you have nothing better up your sleeve than nice stories. Ok, you have nice stories. I'm not impressed though.. heard a lot of nice stories before. Nice stories don't have to be taken as all true. Why should I take your particular stories as true?

And this "pure consciousness"?.. you want to invoke ANOTHER unsupported, unproved, concept to somehow give more credence to your unproved, unsupported god concept? Do you think that really helps?

Now you have to prove that pure consciousness also exists, and not only your god.. don't make your task harder.. that's not going to help you.. surely you can see that... right?

Putting the force that controls life in a human body worked in the ancient past, because primitive people did not know about invisible forms of energy.

Putting the force?.. what?.. not following you again.. don't have a clue what that's supposed to mean. Sorry.

Unknown forces of nature were explained by saying "a" God did it. Since then, our knowledge has evolved and progressed. Now we know about unseen forces. We know that they are forms of energy/light.

Ok.. and so?

My brain is only a receiver, in the Universe there is a core from which we obtain knowledge, strength and inspiration. I have not penetrated into the secrets of this core, but I know that it exists. -Nikola Tesla

Ok, Telsa said something, and so?...

Penetration of more of this energy, truth about life and truth about spirit just comes within "out of the air" when one surrenders to the force.

Penetration? Of more of THIS energy? Are you saying that god is just energy? Because.. yeah.. electricity.. ok. Well, we already HAVE a word for electricity and light.. Why do you want to call this god, or DO you call this god?

You have me completely baffled.

Many blessings to you and your family pal.

You too, pal.. but you have left me completely baffled. Maybe if you answer some of my questions above, and respond to some of my objections to your line of reasoning, It will help me understand you a bit more.

Right now, this is way too vague for me to make much sense of. Sorry. You said earlier that you thought I was an intelligent man, and thanks for that,. but I'm not intelligent enough to understand much of what you said, sorry. I would need WAY more clarity to understand.. God is energy? Your light bulb contains god? I have no clue.. sorry.

 

[Blastcat]

You know, what if those babies really were awful and nasty--I mean, in God's estimation?

The concept of awful nasty babies. You can't possibly be serious, sorry.

After all, he says "the wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies." According to God's judgment, many people are no better than "brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed."

Well, yes, that's a problem. If God's judgement is that many people are no better than brute beasts made to be taken and destroyed, that's a sure sign of a very evil or pathological God. That's kind of my point.

Tell me, would you feel the slightest remorse for drowning baby Hitler, given the opportunity?

Of COURSE I would. I am not a psychopath. Kill a baby and NOT have remorse? You can't possibly be serious. Sorry, just no.

I doubt he was an awful, nasty baby compared to other babies.

Good, we agree on that. Babies are not evil.

But knowing beforehand what a despicable creature he would become and the immense misery he would inflict upon millions, I think you would gladly drown him, regardless of his tiny nose and cherubic grin.

Gladly?

NEVER !

I am not a psychopath.. but I'm wondering who I'm replying to here.. You can't be SERIOUS,.

God claims foreknowledge of the final disposition of all his creatures. If for argument's sake we accept God's testimony on that point, then not one of us would find fault with him for drowning little Adolf. We'd be standing there applauding.

You would stand there applauding the drowning of a baby. Seriously. Wow.

Take that reasoning a step further ...

No, I wont.

 

[Blastcat]

I'm not mocking you Blastcat. I enjoy reading your comments. You are obviously an intelligent person and deep thinker. I didn't say you had a religion. For me personally, I need more faith to believe in Evolution. I studied it in school and had my books on Evolution at home with all the charts etc. For me, those miracle charts with the process of evolution.....micro organisms changing into sea born creatures and then changing into fish.....and then developing legs....and making the transition to dry land.....and then changing into all other living creatures......all requires too much faith for me. Keep posting....regards.

So, ok, you have noticed that I don't have a religion. But I have used faith to come to the conclusion that evolution is true, you say.

Well , no, sorry, I would NEVER use faith as a method for knowing ANYTHING. And that would include evolution, because I take it that faith is a VERY bad method to establish the truth of anything at all.

Your personal opinion about evolution and science in general has been noted. You aren't impressed by either. Ok.. now what?
Most scientists disagree with you. Because of their "faith", I suppose.. right..
No, scientists also don't rely on faith as a method to know ANYTHING... EVER. They tend to use the scientific method for that.
And NEVER faith.

They'd be fired if they even tried.

 

[Unification]

The concept of awful nasty babies. You can't possibly be serious, sorry.



Well, yes, that's a problem. If God's judgement is that many people are no better than brute beasts made to be taken and destroyed, that's a sure sign of a very evil or pathological God. That's kind of my point.



Of COURSE I would. I am not a psychopath. Kill a baby and NOT have remorse? You can't possibly be serious. Sorry, just no.



Good, we agree on that. Babies are not evil.



Gladly?

NEVER !

I am not a psychopath.. but I'm wondering who I'm replying to here.. You can't be SERIOUS,.



You would stand there applauding the drowning of a baby. Seriously. Wow.



No, I wont.

You either believe in this story and that "God" did this or you don't. The drowning babies is ones own imagination.
It's what anyone from religion does as well as oneself, taking the scriptures literally and having an imagination.

 

[Unification]

Great. You aren't my enemy.



Not following you .. sorry. The same way that individuals is inspired... oh.. you want to define what your god is. Ok.. Out of nowhere is this idea, you say. Hmm seems to me that you don't happen to be on a distant planet where nobody has every thought or written about gods. You don't live on a deserted island, either. I can't really accept that you lived in a cave completely separate from any god concepts already very well established. Sorry, but no.. it's wasn't out of nowhere. People talk and there are books. And chatrooms and all manner of religiosity going around all the time. The world you and I live in is SATURATED with religiosity, I don't know how you could have possibly avoided all of that. I know I sure didn't. And I'm an atheist.. less probability of noticing religious life around me, but it's there.

What MOUNTAIN did you live on with no TV, no books, no schools, no churches, no community functions, ohhh come on.

And no, I can't accept that you had ZERO JUDGEMENTS because you have made a judgement.. you judge that there IS a god. And that you know what it is and so on.. You aren't IMPARTIAL.. are you? Are you a pure agnostic?

If so, then you don't sound like a pure agnostic.... fooled me...

I don't buy that you were a complete blank slate and that you had no preconceived ideas about god for the reasons I stated above. If you spent a considerable time on this planet, then there are PLENTY of ideas about gods that have been conceived for you, I'm quite sure. And since you seem to be interested in the god concepts, it's probably likely that you had an interest in the subject as you made up your mind about it.. but no judgement? .. no mind was involved in your decision making?

I have no idea how you use English words, then, because this doesn't match up at all.



Sure, anthropomorphizing natural forces and ideas is a very old religious trick. Completely unjustified, but when you don't know much about anything about how the world works, you can't really be faulted for trying your best. But now, with our modern science?

I see no purpose of hanging on to old outdated superstitions and pretend that this is the pinnacle of human wisdom. I would go so far as to call it an extreme case of foolishness, instead.



I would agree with that.. marketing works. Childhood indoctrination helps. The promotion of irrational beliefs also helps, as does emotional appeals and fallacious argumentation.. Whatever it takes to keep the priests in business, they tend to try out.



Ok, we have here your assumptions. Something that is beyond time and space? There is some of that? Can you demonstrate that or is that merely your belief?

I don't accept that you CAN know this to be true, or that you have any evidence that this is true, so I will assume right now that you are simply taking this hypothesis for granted, as IF you knew it to be true. Well, do you know this or what? Maybe YOU yourself don't believe this at all. Hard to tell.

Another thing that is impossible to do is to explain something that isn't real. That's hard to do, too. Your god definition lacks as much evidence as something that just isn't real. And that's a problem if you want anyone to believe in this god concept of yours.. whatever that is. I won't guess too much. Exists out of time and space, apparently.



So, because we can't really demonstrate that the god is real, or give any evidence about it of any kind, yes, I suppose you have nothing better up your sleeve than nice stories. Ok, you have nice stories. I'm not impressed though.. heard a lot of nice stories before. Nice stories don't have to be taken as all true. Why should I take your particular stories as true?

And this "pure consciousness"?.. you want to invoke ANOTHER unsupported, unproved, concept to somehow give more credence to your unproved, unsupported god concept? Do you think that really helps?

Now you have to prove that pure consciousness also exists, and not only your god.. don't make your task harder.. that's not going to help you.. surely you can see that... right?


Putting the force?.. what?.. not following you again.. don't have a clue what that's supposed to mean. Sorry.



Ok.. and so?



Ok, Telsa said something, and so?...



Penetration? Of more of THIS energy? Are you saying that god is just energy? Because.. yeah.. electricity.. ok. Well, we already HAVE a word for electricity and light.. Why do you want to call this god, or DO you call this god?

You have me completely baffled.



You too, pal.. but you have left me completely baffled. Maybe if you answer some of my questions above, and respond to some of my objections to your line of reasoning, It will help me understand you a bit more.

Right now, this is way too vague for me to make much sense of. Sorry. You said earlier that you thought I was an intelligent man, and thanks for that,. but I'm not intelligent enough to understand much of what you said, sorry. I would need WAY more clarity to understand.. God is energy? Your light bulb contains god? I have no clue.. sorry.

I can count endless amounts of assumptions, defining things in ones own imagination for another, based on emotion in this post of yours. Relax that mind a little. The definitions of "God" are coming from you, not me.
True or false? It's impossible to even talk to someone like this.
Life is real, and we all deal with forces out of our control and abide by the same laws of nature. If that's not good enough for you, what is?
It's pretty evident on how some are much more consciously evolved and aware than others. I exist, and am alive, as is everything and anything around me in my environment.
I can care less if you're impressed. The ego of an emotional being needs the feeling to be impressed and to impress others and fit in.
Maybe you're lost and don't understand because you're using too much mind, that's closed off, and can't handle cognitive dissonance. You ask many questions and receive answers and get more emotional. Don't ask questions if you don't want answers.
Yes, the mind can be completely shut down, if you can't or don't care to try it, don't speak of something you don't know.
I am opposed to religion and all for science, again... Assuming any time the word "God" is brought up that someone is a religionist is assumptive ignorance from emotion.
I can't help that you're unaware of undetectable, and the wide array of different energies and subatomic particles coming from the cosmos or celestial bodies, or that reside there. If light bulbs sustain life, that may be your imaginative force. How does the world work, pal?
True or false, there has been one truth of everything since the concept of "time" existed? If you're appointed one life to discover this, you wouldn't, and you may as well just be fulfilled in your one life at rest in the present time , embracing life and love, through yourself, family, friends, others.. rather than chasing the mind in circles, and being emotional, redundant baby drowning talk of a story you don't even believe in, defining "God" yet not believing in "God."
"A" God is different than "God" and "a" truth is different than "truth."

 

[Blastcat]

I can count endless amounts of assumptions, defining things in ones own imagination for another, based on emotion in this post of yours. Relax that mind a little. The definitions of "God" are coming from you, not me.

I can't help that you're unaware of undetectable, and the wide array of different energies and subatomic particles coming from the cosmos or celestial bodies, or that reside there. If light bulbs sustain life, that may be your imaginative force. How does the world work, pal?

I am SO ashamed, So sorry. I should KNOW that you can detect what is undetectable, SORRY.. But I asked you if you thought your god was ENERGY . You forgot to answer that in your hurry to lecture me about my emotional state.

I am AWARE of some science, and that we have light, electricity and quantum particles. Is this what you mean by god?

Could you answer the question and not pretend to psychoanalyze me. Or would you rather preach to me, moralize and never actually answer anything at all?

Because your avoidance is getting very tiresome, and me being tired IS an emotion.
I'm about ready to abandon any conversation with you. Avoidance isn't a conversational skill that I admire.
There are others in here..

 

[Unification]

So, ok, you have noticed that I don't have a religion. But I have used faith to come to the conclusion that evolution is true, you say.

Well , no, sorry, I would NEVER use faith as a method for knowing ANYTHING. And that would include evolution, because I take it that faith is a VERY bad method to establish the truth of anything at all.

Your personal opinion about evolution and science in general has been noted. You aren't impressed by either. Ok.. now what?
Most scientists disagree with you. Because of their "faith", I suppose.. right..
No, scientists also don't rely on faith as a method to know ANYTHING... EVER. They tend to use the scientific method for that.
And NEVER faith.

They'd be fired if they even tried.

Yet science doesn't know everything yet.

I am SO ashamed, So sorry. I should KNOW that you can detect what is undetectable, SORRY.. But I asked you if you thought your god was ENERGY . You forgot to answer that in your hurry to lecture me about my emotional state.

I am AWARE of some science, and that we have light, electricity and quantum particles. Is this what you mean by god?

Could you answer the question and not pretend to psychoanalyze me. Or would you rather preach to me, moralize and never actually answer anything at all?

Because your avoidance is getting very tiresome, and me being tired IS an emotion.
I'm about ready to abandon any conversation with you. Avoidance isn't a conversational skill that I admire.
There are others in here..

The only thing that could be called God is nature, truth, life, love, the present, the now, the force, energy, everything and nothing. God is the balancing force that creates and controls the infinite universe, the force that gives us life and order and everything in it. That explains it in words, but it is not even close to experiencing what it really is. Some things, most real things, you can only know by experience.

God is not a separate life form. God is all life forms. God is life itself and the balancing force that controls it. The Bible says the same thing. It says, “God is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end, that which was, that which is and will be, the almighty.” It cannot be said better than that. (Life)

I am as I am. Now we know where God is (everywhere), what God looks like (everything), what God does (everything), and how to be with God (overcome our animal nature and minds). Everything except for our false mental-self is God.
The very nature of God. The phrase “I AM THAT I AM” is meant to be understood metaphysically, it means God is BEING. BEING is that which is both the un-manifested (spirit) and that which is manifested (physical matter) at the same time. God is the sum total of both—the unborn infinite potential and the creation.

Creating any images or what and who we think "God" is only gives the false impression of the infinite, God cannot be represented by any form (things). Contrary to popular belief, God does not have a body separate from his creation. He is the sum total of it all.

God is only in human form when we let God manifest through us. We represent God and the mind. God can live through us, and we can live through God. God gives us life, and we give God a physical body. It is truly a match made in heaven. The truth makes God become flesh through us.

People drag the ignorance of the past into the present, which makes them even more ignorant than the people in the past were. I can understand why primitive, ignorant people in the past would believe and do the things they did, but why would modern people still do the same thing? No matter how much information and truth is revealed in form of energy to our brains, most still refuse what is highly evident.

If you take away everything that is physical (matter/energy), you’re left with nothing (no thing). Nothing is completely empty space, absolute cold, silence and darkness. “Nothing” is infinite, eternal and indestructible. It does not move. It does not have to, it is already everywhere. The universe is more than 99.999% empty space, including our bodies.

Space bends, and it proves that nothing is really something with substance. Space is shaped, and it is the shape of space that creates the gravity that controls and creates the whole universe. It holds the planets in orbit, makes the sun and other stars burn, bends light, keeps us from falling off the earth, and it is empty space, nothing.

Nothing causes everything to happen, It creates gravity, gravity creates planets and stars, stars concentrate and release all energy and matter. Everything physical comes from and is created by nothing.

Our spirit/conscious is also like nothing. It is the so-called empty space between everything. The majority of everything is nothing, and it connects everything, everywhere. Our essential, immortal self or soul is like the blank sheet that physical life is written on, the darkness that gives light a place to shine, the silence that gives sound a place to be heard, an infinite stadium that the game of life is played in. Nothing is the complete opposite of what people think. It is impossible to get your mind around. All you can do is know it is true and be it.

There are some things that are beyond the mind, literally. You can only know them or in this case be them, when the mind is turned off completely.

People are living as their false, mortal mind-self, and they should be living as their immortal spiritual-self, the exact opposite of the way they are now. If you are completely open, life fills the void completely. All life comes to you, it is given to you by God/life. You are just a receiver. You do not create life, all you can do is live it and reflect what you receive. Life moves around and through you. When you are completely open, nothing is completely displaced with everything. It doesn’t matter if you close your eyes or leave them open. Do whichever makes you more comfortable. Then stop thinking a moment. Don’t judge or label anything. Whether good or bad. Just observe. If a thought comes to your mind, don’t judge it. Just observe it. Do this for a few minutes, and eventually, you’ll switch from being the thinker to the observer. When you have truly experienced this shift in consciousness, you can say you’ve had a glimpse of spirit. There is no conscious thought taking place. It is just an emptiness that is full of potential. It can never diminish, and can it ever burn out like thoughts and the body can. It is ever there, in the background of what you call you.

If you achieved becoming one with this observer, even only for a second, you just had a taste of peace. It’s a peace that surpasses understanding. Because it cannot be understood, it can only be experienced.

The human brain is a receiver for information in motion/energy/consciousness from its external and internal environment. It's a miniature duplicate brain of the cosmos (big brain)
Conveying signals point to point. Source to source.

God sustains life and experience. Light and darkness. Universe is built on opposites. Can't experience one without the other, polar opposites of the spectrum of experience. The potential between the polar opposites that make experience possible. It's impossible for experience and conscious/life (God) to exist if there is was only one side to the spectrum. It is the infinite number of potential perspectives one can take between the two that gives rise to individual experiences. Good and evil are just labels that our ego's assign to experiences. This life is about us, why are we going to an outside God for our answers? God is within you. And if God is experiencing through us, we realize that ourselves and God are one beyond these seemingly individual and separate experiences.
God created the opportunity for BEING. And we are a grand part of this infinite journey. And so is everyone and everything else. God gave us the opportunity to create and then experience peace or suffering, and either one is our own choice. Neither is right or wrong, but they are either joyous or painful. So what will we sow? Peace and joy, or pain and suffering? Since it’s about us, only we have the ability to choose and BE.

Why God created life in the first place. God didn't create us to love and cherish. God created us so that WE could love and cherish. The emphasis is on US. We are the limited extensions of "God's" infinite nature, and WE are vehicles in which God(consciousness/life) grows. Waking up, conscious awareness. Evolution of consciousness, evolution of intelligence and knowledge.

Religion has taught us to look to another source as the reason and answer to our existence, when all the time is should be so blatantly obvious that the reason and answer for our existence is us. And that’s acceptable to "God."

Why we cannot “search” for "God" outside of ourselves. We will not find "God" there. This is also the reason we will not find an answer to our experiences “outside” of ourselves, there is no reason there. All events in life that happen outside of us are just fleeting moments that pop into and out of existences from the spirit (consciousness/life) of infinite potential.

Existence is comprised of three components: energy (motion), matter, and consciousness. Essentially these are all ONE. Energy is neither created nor destroyed. Matter is neither created nor destroyed. Consciousness is neither created nor destroyed. You cannot have the one without the other. In order for consciousness to “be,” a vehicle (body) is needed. As matter (the body) is put into motion (energy) consciousness has the chance to experience, eventually given rise to self awareness.

God, as pure consciousness, is experiencing himself through us, and the more of him (heightened consciousness) that we bring down into this body, the more fully he manifests in this physical realm. God is not separate from creation, all of mankind has a spirit(conscious), essentially making the human a mini-god themselves and carrying out creation and experiencing. The God aspect of mankind spirit/consciousness is in all, good and evil alike... The ignorant just have no awareness of this and utilize the mind and see only physical/material/matter and keep on missing the truth, reality due to ego and mind.

Be a watcher, a witness of everything passing by and through you, and you will discover that actually nothing passes by you. Everything comes to you, right to you. If it does not, it is not your life, so there is no point in thinking about it. Observe. If you do it right, you will not miss anything that is coming to you. You will become the present.

Unified field equation: the science that is trying to explain everything mathematically, is something called a unified field equation. It would explain why everything physical does what it does in a mathematical equation. They have not been able to do it, but they have not been considering the field or tried to add it to the equation. The field is what we call nothing (life).

2 = 0 says it all: Two being the balancing opposites, one positive one negative, they cancel each other out, equal nothing and everything. That is the unified field equation.

The spirit/conscious is like a void, and the mind will always fill it, unless it is already completely filled with life.

The mysteries of consciousness are also hidden from our understanding, even our most advanced science. We cannot find where it is localized in the brain. Many scientists are waking up to the possibility that consciousness isn’t produced in the brain at all, but rather that the brain is only a receiver of it.

God’s omnipresence cannot be measured. God has no size, no weight, and no dimensions.
Consciousness cannot be measured. Consciousness has no size, no weight, and no dimensions.

God is life.
The conscious experience.

God is truth
Our conscious experience, while largely subjective, is still our truth. Yes, our consciousness is subject to change, but whatever we experience in the moment is still our truth. Look around you. It is the truth in this moment.

God is ever growing, expanding, and creating.
Consciousness is ever growing, expanding, creating, through us. It learns and it grows. It is always changing, adapting, expanding.

God is infinite potential
Consciousness is infinite potential, as man has proved over and over again.

Consciousness has done the same throughout history. It is has the potential to produce the most profound aspects love, and hatred.

God is a being of balance, all opposites of universe.

God just IS. Needs no explanation, because God can never be fully explained.
Consciousness just IS. Neither does it need any explanation, because that’s not the purpose. We give it purpose because by its very nature it is the framework for purpose to come into being.

Religion and the mind has given us a false concept about God and ourselves. It means that we are an intimate part of God right now, right where we are, no matter what we’ve done, thought, or felt. And that is most encouraging to any being.

As the universe adapts, as consciousness adapts, so does God. God is in all, through all, and the All.

Human thought and expression, which is limited, cannot appropriately explain infinity, but we know infinity exists.

Spirit is the first cause of all that is. It gives rise to all experiences. It is primordial consciousness itself. By this consciousness I am not speaking of awareness where an entity has the realization of itself in relation to situations and others. I am speaking of an oneness where nothing is lacking and infinite potential is constant. This oneness is truly whole. This oneness is also truly nothing (no-“thing”), and yet it is everything at the same time.

Reality isn’t based on matter at all. Rather, it’s based on math. Math is made of "nothing." The basis of all mathematics is 0 = 0. All mathematical structures can be derived from something called “the empty set”, the set that contains no elements.

Reality comes from mathematics, but mathematics comes from "nothing."
There is no such thing as nothing. Nothingness (spirit / primordial consciousness) contains infinite potential, which is dynamic by nature. This dynamic is the reason for creation.

When you first start to turn off the mind, your mind can make you feel like you are going crazy or dying. It is a defense mechanism built into the mind designed to keep the mind/ego in control.

Someone living in a more pure conscious state does not ask anyone to believe anything. They will do the opposite and tell people the truth is not any belief system. They will tell them the truth is life, the truth is in the present, and you either know it, or you do not.

 

[Blastcat]

Yet science doesn't know everything yet.


The only thing that could be called God is....

A very long, unreadable sermon? I know you like to make the argument from ignorance, and I agree that science doesn't know everything.. but all that other stuff.. You should make it shorter so people might be interested in reading it, and you should start off with the words "I BELIEVE THAT..." Because you don't know this stuff.. you just seem to believe this stuff. The problem is that belief isn't the same thing as knowledge. Sorry.

I'm not going to take what you wrote apart, line by line and ask you what you meant and how you arrived at these beliefs. I am not going to ask you for the evidence you have for any of this. It would be just too long. Maybe you could be a bit less generous with your words next time. I would like to get somewhere when I have a conversation and not feel that I have been merely lectured to.


Here is a question for you.. just one.

Do you think that just because you believe in something that it is true?

 

[Blastcat]

Yet science doesn't know everything yet.


The only thing that could be called God is nature, truth, life, love, the present, the now, the force, energy, everything and nothing.

Hey, good news.. I had a little time.. so here is my observations on your presentation.. ( not all of it.. I only had an hour )


Apparently, what you mean by the word "God" is .. everything. We have a word for everything, I looked it up in the dictionary, it's called "everything". So, you believe that everything is everything. Nice. wow.. deep. And that's "God".. wow, deep..

So, instead of using the word "everything", you prefer the word "God". Ok, easy enough concept.. I understand what the word everything means. Another word for that is "universe"..
Well, I agree with you I THINK.. I believe that all that exists, exists.

Yep. I do. I don't call that God because the word is way too loaded, but hey.. it's just a word. You could call it blagoddlong. You could make up words, use old words in new ways, whatever. It's just word games at this point.

God is the balancing force that creates and controls the infinite universe, the force that gives us life and order and everything in it. That explains it in words, but it is not even close to experiencing what it really is. Some things, most real things, you can only know by experience.

And since God is everything, it's NOT what you just said, at the same time. It's what you say and NOT what you say. It's everything else, too. You said God was EVERYTHING .. so it's not JUST a balancing force, but an UNBALLANCING FORCE, it's not just something that creates, but it's something that destroys, it's not just the force that gives us life, but it's the force that takes it away.

Anything that you may experience about a god that is absolutely everything is of course, NOT what you may experience about the god at the same time.

God is not a separate life form. God is all life forms.

If God is everything, then God is not a separate life form and it IS a separate life form.

God is life itself and the balancing force that controls it.

If God is life itself, it is also death itself. If God is the balancing force that controls life it is also the unbalance that has no control.

The Bible says the same thing. It says, “God is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end, that which was, that which is and will be, the almighty.” It cannot be said better than that. (Life)

Interesting interpretation. So, if god is everything then yes.. as soon as you can think of a characteristic , you immediately must ascribe the very opposite of that characteristic. If you say that God goes right, you also have to say that he goes left. If god exists, then he also does not.

I am as I am. Now we know where God is (everywhere),

Just because you claim to know something does not mean that you actually do. You seem to BELIEVE in these things, but you have absolutely no evidence or good reasoning that any of this is actually true. You very much like it. It's cute. I can see why you might like it.

You don't actually "know" where this god is.. You say you do. But you don't actually know. And by your reasoning, God is where you say it is, and it's also not where you say it is. Your reasoning is horribly flawed and is based one no evidence whatsoever.

Sorry.

what God looks like (everything), what God does (everything), and how to be with God (overcome our animal nature and minds). Everything except for our false mental-self is God.

Well, nice but no. You don't know what god "looks like".. what an idea... And you DON'T actually know what god does. You say that you do.. but what you're doing is jumping from your BELIEF to a KNOWLEDGE claim without any evidence or reason to support the knowledge claim.

Again, fallacious reasoning based on no evidence at all...

The very nature of God. The phrase “I AM THAT I AM” is meant to be understood metaphysically,

And now, you presume to KNOW how best to understand the concept of god too.

And again, you offer no good reason or any evidence to support the claim that you DO know how best to understand the concept.
I think you are practically oblivious to the idea of evidence and reasoning. You don't use much of either..especially the evidence part. You don't seem to require ANY evidence for your beliefs.. and your reasoning is .. ahhh.. how to put it charitably... a bit thin, shall we say.

it means God is BEING. BEING is that which is both the un-manifested (spirit) and that which is manifested (physical matter) at the same time. God is the sum total of both—the unborn infinite potential and the creation.

It means that.. ? No, you just said that.. you haven't demonstrated that it means that.. you just stated what you think it means to YOU. But you haven't bothered to tell us how you reasoned that out. You start off with a series of assertions and work backward from that.. but why should anyone take your assertions for knowledge, when it is clearly belief?

Knowledge and belief.. you confuse the two.

Creating any images or what and who we think "God" is only gives the false impression of the infinite, God cannot be represented by any form (things). Contrary to popular belief, God does not have a body separate from his creation. He is the sum total of it all.

LOL.. no.. you miss the irony here. You have created an image of who you think "God" is.. and by your reasoning, are giving a false impression.. oh boy. Tell me you see the irony here.. OH come on.

God is only in human form when we let God manifest through us. We represent God and the mind. God can live through us, and we can live through God. God gives us life, and we give God a physical body. It is truly a match made in heaven. The truth makes God become flesh through us.

How could you know any of this.. god is this , god is that.. and you just SAID that to create any image of what you think "God" is.. is only going to give us a FALSE impression... IRONY.. or to put it in a less charitable way, completely self-refuting.

Please, next time.. read over what you write before posting it.

People drag the ignorance of the past into the present, which makes them even more ignorant than the people in the past were. I can understand why primitive, ignorant people in the past would believe and do the things they did, but why would modern people still do the same thing? No matter how much information and truth is revealed in form of energy to our brains, most still refuse what is highly evident.

Ok.. now, you're just being precious, aren't you? Stop being pretentious. Be a bit more humble. You aren't as clever as you would like to believe. Honestly. You don't have to tear people DOWN to help your argument, as your argument stands on it's OWN. Or falls, as is the case right now, I'm afraid. Sorry.

If you take away everything that is physical (matter/energy), you’re left with nothing (no thing).

Playing with words again, are we?

Our spirit/conscious is also like nothing. It is the so-called empty space between everything. The majority of everything is nothing,

Ok, but look, since you started this VERY LONG sermon with the assertion that god is everything and nothing.. yeah.. I think you have pretty much said a lot about nothing. Words usually are meant to have meanings, or we can't understand each other.. words to you are.. infinitely fluid. X equals non X and yes means no, and everything actually means nothing.

You quite literally aren't making any sense. Sorry.

It is impossible to get your mind around. .

You say that in the very same sentence where you say it's impossible to get your mind around it. You SAY that you can't understand, and yet you present yourself as someone who CAN understand. You want it both ways, but you can't. That's meaningless.

All you can do is know it is true and be it

You can't possibly KNOW something without evidence or a method TO know.. some cognition. That's what the word "know" means.. a true cognitive state.

You can't think without words, you can't KNOW without using your mind . You can't make a truth claim without evidence, and you can't believe in one thing and it's contradiction at the same time and make any sense.

So, of course, you don't know any of this.. and you cant "be" it.. whatever that means.. Be a self-contradiction? You are alive and dead at the same time? You are thinking and NOT thinking?

I'll give you my opinion about your thinking.. you ARE thinking, that's for SURE. But you aren't thinking all that well.
But that's ok.. You can learn how to think well.
Stay in debates like this.. prove your points. Learn how to argue a point.
You can take online courses and read books.. and even watch videos on the internet.

you don't have to give up thinking just because you're new at it.. I was new at it. I'm learning.. That's what I'm DOING in here.. learning how to think better. Not just turning it of ( as if you could ) and pretending the rest of your life away .

You can pretend to know.. but you don't really know. You just said that you can't even wrap your mind around it.

There are some things that are beyond the mind, literally. You can only know them or in this case be them, when the mind is turned off completely.

So, ok. If you really think that making a case for abandoning your MIND about anything is the BEST method to use to KNOW anything that is true.. Try it out on ANYTHING else but your god ideas.

Try to figure something out without using your mind. Go ahead. You can meditate and learn how to stop thinking in words.. and relax, and feel nice, and calm, and all that is beneficial, but it's not thinking.

And you can't get thoughts by NOT thinking. Thinking requires THOUGHTS.. Nobody writes a novel when they are unconscious. Nobody learns to tap-dance when they are asleep.

Do whichever makes you more comfortable.
If you achieved becoming one with this observer, even only for a second, you just had a taste of peace. It’s a peace that surpasses understanding. Because it cannot be understood, it can only be experienced.

I don't know why you felt the need to give us a course on meditation. I know how to meditate, but more to the point, this has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Next time, try to keep to a point.

You might be experiencing something that is false. But you don't seem to care at all if your experiences are misleading you or not. Apparently, anything that you experience, by definition, is true. Maybe you haven't heard of optical illusions. Optical illusions give false experiences. And they seem perfectly true. Minds DO on occasion make errors., You seem to ignore that fact. And because of that., you are more likely to BE in error than not. You actually caution us NOT to judge any experience. So, if you are perfectly wrong about some belief, you would actually never know.

I wont take your suggestion.

Ok.. wow.. it does go on and on, doesn't it?

I'm going to stop here because of the length. And you repeat yourself a lot. Try not to do that next time.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

A very long, unreadable sermon? I

Someone's projecting?

 

[RossRonin]

You would stand there applauding the drowning of a baby. Seriously. Wow.

C'mon, admit it. I bet you would be cheering on whoever was drowning that baby, if you had absolutely indisputable foreknowledge that the little bundle of joy would grow up to be an evil tyrant.

If you could travel in time, peer into the death camps, and watch baby Adolf's future minions mercilessly and sadistically torturing and murdering adults and children by the millions, you would not think twice about drowning the person soon to be responsible for that frenzy of blind hatred and megalomaniacal fury.

What right to life does a person like that have? What value can we attach to his life? None. Putting him to death at any age would be completely justifiable. So apply that logic to God's treatment of countless others who are, in his opinion, without value. Brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed.

What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction?
Has not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?

Paul posed those questions nearly 2,000 years ago and they are still valid. They speak to this issue of whether the creature should judge the Creator.

God is the balancing force that creates and controls the infinite universe, the force that gives us life and order and everything in it.

A balancing force...a force that creates? A force that invents and engineers and designs and fully integrates myriad functional, durable, self-sustaining macrocosmic and microcosmic systems of mind-bending complexity? I would need a lot more faith to believe in a god like that, than in a Creator whose judgments are sometimes inscrutable and unfathomable.

Someone living in a more pure conscious state does not ask anyone to believe anything.

Yet you say "the truth is life, the truth is in the present, and you either know it, or you do not." Are you asking us to believe that? Or are you offering that as one possible truth among many? You can't have it both ways.