The god of this world

[atanu]

According to biblical theology, Satan, Lucifer, or the devil was a high ranking angelic being, who rebelled against God, and was cast from His presence until a final judgement. He was not equal to God, and was a created being.

He was not created 'evil', but chose that path, implying free will for the angelic spirits, as well.

Many theories and speculations abound, regarding this historical enemy of God and humanity. Those who have encountered him, like those who have encountered God, may not know or understand the theology, but they know he is a dangerous enemy, intent only on lies and destruction.

Many questions arise. Did God know or not that, Lucifer would rebel?

Why God does not destroy the rebel instead of issuing warning to us?

Or is it an inherent quality of mind which we need to guard against?

 

[Deeje]

I and the father are one.
No one comes through the Father but by me.
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
In the beginning was the word, and the word as with God and the Word was God, and everything was created through the Word, and the Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us.

Mark 13:32 RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”
That would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?

John 14:28 RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 RS: “Although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords’—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.”
This presents the Father as the “one God” of Christians and as being separate and distinct from Jesus Christ.

At John 20:17, following Jesus’ resurrection, he himself spoke of the Father as “my God.” Later, when in heaven, as recorded at Revelation 3:12, he again used the same expression. How can the Father be the God of Jesus even in heaven?
Never in the Bible is the Father reported to refer to the Son as “my God,” nor does either the Father or the Son refer to the holy spirit as “my God.”

John 1:18 says: “No one has ever seen God.” How many thousands of people saw Jesus?
At 17:3, Jesus addresses his Father as “the only true God” and refers to himself as a separate entity.

When saying, “I and the Father are one,” did Jesus mean that they were equal? At John 17:21, 22, Jesus prayed regarding his followers: “That they may all be one,” and he added, “that they may be one even as we are one.”
It means unity not trinity.

John 24:36..."Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father." Does the Father know things that the son does not? If they are one God, how is that possible?

On the night of his arrest Matthew 26:39 RS: says “Going a little farther he [Jesus Christ] fell on his face and prayed, ‘My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.’”
If the Father and the Son were not distinct individuals, such a prayer would have been meaningless. Jesus would have been praying to himself, and his will would of necessity have been the Father’s will.

If you think for one moment that I perceive Jesus as a different God than the Father, you are so wrong and dont have a clue to what the Trinity is.

The trinity is not Biblical. Jesus only ever called himself "God's son"...never did he claim to be God and he directed all worship to his God and Father. (Luke 4:5-8)

I think you should perhaps opoen a small glimmer of light and realise that perhaps what you were taught about the Trinity was something no one anyhow believed in ever.
Just as the Muslims perceive that the Trinity is mary, the Father and Jesus, your view is incorrect.

I do not believe in Polytheism at all!

You can't have 3 gods in one head. There is nothing in the Bible to suggest such a ridiculous thing. The Jews did not worship a trinity and Jesus was Jewish.

If you ask those in Christendom who God is...what do you think they answer?...Jesus. If Jesus has a God and Father even in heaven, then he is NOT God. (Revelation 3:12)

 

[Deeje]

I believe in the Bible, and it does not explain all about the Devil.

Then you haven't read the Bible at all. Right from the fall in Eden and on through the Bible in Job and in Ezekiel and the NT there is so much about the devil...how can you say it doesn't explain all about him?

The first rule of any war is know your enemy.....God has informed us about our adversary. (2 Corinthians 2:11)

It explains how God sent His Word to the Earth where He as God took human form to live, suffer, bleed, feel pain, and to die like us.

No it doesn't. It tells us that the Word was Jesus and that the Word became flesh, not that God became flesh.
God is immortal and cannot die, so if Jesus was immortal then he didn't really die and the redemption of mankind is a hoax. We are still in our sin...unforgiven.

It explains how this Word was crucified, and died and rose from the dead, because his human body died, but the immortal Word of God acn not die.

Read what you just said and tell me it makes any sense....? Jesus was 100% human and died as a mortal man...the exact equivalent of Adam. He paid the debt that Adam left for his children....(Romans 5:12)
Humans cannot kill God.

This immortal word then took an immortal body, one covered in light, and assended into heaven and joined the Father in their glory as one with the Holy Ghost.

OMGoodness...where did that come from? Certainly not the Bible. There is no such thing as a holy ghost.
In every scripture that speaks about Jesus at the right hand of his Father, please provide one single reference to the holy spirit being on his left....

Satan is nothing, Jesus destroyed him when He destroyed the one thing Satan had over us...death!

Satan is still alive and creating the havoc that the Bible foretold for this time period...and we are still dying....
Satan is something but its not quite time for him to go yet...soon though I feel.

Death means nothimng,

It means something to those who are grieving a loss.

Satan knows his time is out, and his power over God's creation lost.

Not quite yet. He is going to keep the pressure up until he is in the abyss. (Revelation 20:1-3) That hasn't happened yet. He and his cronies are still very busy in case you haven't noticed.

 

[JJ50]

Then you haven't read the Bible at all. Right from the fall in Eden and on through the Bible in Job and in Ezekiel and the NT there is so much about the devil...how can you say it doesn't explain all about him?

The first rule of any war is know your enemy.....God has informed us about our adversary. (2 Corinthians 2:11)



No it doesn't. It tells us that the Word was Jesus and that the Word became flesh, not that God became flesh.
God is immortal and cannot die, so if Jesus was immortal then he didn't really die and the redemption of mankind is a hoax. We are still in our sin...unforgiven.




Read what you just said and tell me it makes any sense....? Jesus was 100% human and died as a mortal man...the exact equivalent of Adam. He paid the debt that Adam left for his children....(Romans 5:12)
Humans cannot kill God.



OMGoodness...where did that come from? Certainly not the Bible. There is no such thing as a holy ghost.
In every scripture that speaks about Jesus at the right hand of his Father, please provide one single reference to the holy spirit being on his left....



Satan is still alive and creating the havoc that the Bible foretold for this time period...and we are still dying....
Satan is something but its not quite time for him to go yet...soon though I feel.



It means something to those who are grieving a loss.



Not quite yet. He is going to keep the pressure up until he is in the abyss. (Revelation 20:1-3) That hasn't happened yet. He and his cronies are still very busy in case you haven't noticed.

You might believe all that to be true but you can't back it up with any verifiable evidence, which the Bible certainly isn't.

 

[Deeje]

You might believe all that to be true but you can't back it up with any verifiable evidence, which the Bible certainly isn't.

You are free to believe or disbelieve whatever you like. Verifiable evidence is all around you, I believe it takes a certain kind of blindness to dismiss it.

Is negativity about God and the Bible all you can do? Is there a point to any of it? Seriously....?

 

[usfan]

Which one? Cthulhu? The FSM? Allah? Vishnu? The list is thousands long. How does one tell which god is "The god of this world"?

Yes, that is a real problem. Perhaps the bigger question, is how does one come to a knowledge of Truth, in a world riddled with lies?

Because IF.. there is a devil.. an enemy of God and His Plan, we should expect the philosophical landscape to be littered with lies, half truth, and deception. And, if that is the case, (and it seems to be), by what Standard do we arbitrate Truth? How can we differentiate it from the lies that abound?

There are 3 basic possibilities, regarding our quest for Truth:

1. We guessed right. We have arrived at the Complete and Total Truth.
2. We see things vaguely.. dimly through the fog of human madness. We have partial Truth, but it needs tweaked or minor corrections. Blind men and elephants describe this condition.
3. We are dead wrong. ..Off the tracks, the engine stopped. We need a major turnaround, and live in complete darkness, regarding Reality.

I really don't know, HOW to get to the first condition. Truth is too obscure and mysterious, regarding God and the infinite mysteries of the universe. Awe, not reckless arrogance, should characterize our quest for Truth and understanding of the cosmic mysteries of this life.

Good luck with that quest, if that is the path you choose. It is much more difficult than dogmatic self delusion.

 

[usfan]

Many questions arise. Did God know or not that, Lucifer would rebel?
Why God does not destroy the rebel instead of issuing warning to us?
Or is it an inherent quality of mind which we need to guard against?

1. I don't know. If we assume the omniscience and transcendence of God, that seems possible. Why does God not interfere with our free will? He doesn't, for His own reasons.
2. That time is coming, but i cannot pretend to know all the intricate reasoning in the mind of God.
3. Perhaps. But whether a 'quality of mind', or a 'Real enemy' of God and his plans, we should be on guard to his deceptions and manipulations. Why should we be willing dupes in his agenda of corruption?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, that is a real problem. Perhaps the bigger question, is how does one come to a knowledge of Truth, in a world riddled with lies?

Because IF.. there is a devil.. an enemy of God and His Plan, we should expect the philosophical landscape to be littered with lies, half truth, and deception. And, if that is the case, (and it seems to be), by what Standard do we arbitrate Truth? How can we differentiate it from the lies that abound?

There are 3 basic possibilities, regarding our quest for Truth:

1. We guessed right. We have arrived at the Complete and Total Truth.
2. We see things vaguely.. dimly through the fog of human madness. We have partial Truth, but it needs tweaked or minor corrections. Blind men and elephants describe this condition.
3. We are dead wrong. ..Off the tracks, the engine stopped. We need a major turnaround, and live in complete darkness, regarding Reality.

I really don't know, HOW to get to the first condition. Truth is too obscure and mysterious, regarding God and the infinite mysteries of the universe. Awe, not reckless arrogance, should characterize our quest for Truth and understanding of the cosmic mysteries of this life.

Good luck with that quest, if that is the path you choose. It is much more difficult than dogmatic self delusion.

As you can see by all of the denial here of other people's religions that some of them at least are in dogmatic delusion. They can't all be right. But they can all be wrong. Pascal's Wager is No answer either. It sounds as if you may be at least leaning towards atheism.

 

[usfan]

As you can see by all of the denial here of other people's religions that some of them at least are in dogmatic delusion. They can't all be right. But they can all be wrong. Pascal's Wager is No answer either. It sounds as if you may be at least leaning towards atheism.

I am a former atheist, convinced, against his will, of the Reality of God.

But the roots of my existential angst are still there, and color my perspective.

Ultimately, we try to unravel the mysteries of this life the best we can. We sift through the noise and commotion, hoping to find a nugget of Truth. But we may never strike it rich, or find the Mother Lode. We believe something, and hope we are at least partially right. But we cannot know, with certainty, in this life. We just make our way through the fog the best we can.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am a former atheist, convinced, against his will, of the Reality of God.

But the roots of my existential angst are still there, and color my perspective.

Ultimately, we try to unravel the mysteries of this life the best we can. We sift through the noise and commotion, hoping to find a nugget of Truth. But we may never strike it rich, or find the Mother Lode. We believe something, and hope we are at least partially right. But we cannot know, with certainty, in this life. We just make our way through the fog the best we can.

That raises the question of whether your transition was a rational one or not.